BigLaw without Firm Experience

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Anonymous User
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BigLaw without Firm Experience

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:19 pm

Rising 3L. Top 5% of TTT Class, but it's not unheard of for people for my school to hit biglaw in top 10%. Issue is this: I've only had public interest/PD work experience in law school - nothing in a firm. I'm not actually hellbent on Biglaw (I have always wanted to be a PD, but the closer my loans get to coming into repayment the more I'm reconsidering that). Question is...do I have any shot at getting hired based on grades/moot court/trial experience/recommendations from supervisors?

Oh, and I've already committed this summer to a fairly prestigious PD office in a major city, so SA is out.

Thoughts?

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Shaggier1
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Re: BigLaw without Firm Experience

Postby Shaggier1 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:58 pm

I have always wanted to be a PD, but the closer my loans get to coming into repayment the more I'm reconsidering that


IBR/LRAP and do what you want to do.

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alphasteve
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Re: BigLaw without Firm Experience

Postby alphasteve » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Rising 3L. Top 5% of TTT Class, but it's not unheard of for people for my school to hit biglaw in top 10%. Issue is this: I've only had public interest/PD work experience in law school - nothing in a firm. I'm not actually hellbent on Biglaw (I have always wanted to be a PD, but the closer my loans get to coming into repayment the more I'm reconsidering that). Question is...do I have any shot at getting hired based on grades/moot court/trial experience/recommendations from supervisors?

Oh, and I've already committed this summer to a fairly prestigious PD office in a major city, so SA is out.

Thoughts?

From what I've seen with friends that weren't in the hiring zone for biglaw during 1L, it's definitely possible to move from non-biglaw to biglaw (so assuming you would be in a better position, having been within the hiring zone). That said, they were practicing the type of law that they lateraled into, and it was mostly corporate type work. You've got to think about what you add to the firm.

blsingindisguise
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Re: BigLaw without Firm Experience

Postby blsingindisguise » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:33 pm

alphasteve wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Rising 3L. Top 5% of TTT Class, but it's not unheard of for people for my school to hit biglaw in top 10%. Issue is this: I've only had public interest/PD work experience in law school - nothing in a firm. I'm not actually hellbent on Biglaw (I have always wanted to be a PD, but the closer my loans get to coming into repayment the more I'm reconsidering that). Question is...do I have any shot at getting hired based on grades/moot court/trial experience/recommendations from supervisors?

Oh, and I've already committed this summer to a fairly prestigious PD office in a major city, so SA is out.

Thoughts?

From what I've seen with friends that weren't in the hiring zone for biglaw during 1L, it's definitely possible to move from non-biglaw to biglaw (so assuming you would be in a better position, having been within the hiring zone). That said, they were practicing the type of law that they lateraled into, and it was mostly corporate type work. You've got to think about what you add to the firm.


Nonsense. Your 3-month summer experience makes no fucking difference to what you "add" to a biglaw firm, whether it's a SA position or selling ice cream at the boardwalk. There is no material difference between the useful skills/experience of 95% of incoming first-years in biglaw beyond raw ability and willingness to grind/suck-up.

The reason most biglaw positions go to people who summer in biglaw is because that's how biglaw hiring works. By 3L most of the spots are gone. That's it. It's totally unimportant that he was in public interest. A little spin and you're completely in the clear on that -- "I realized I really wanted to get the big firm experience and training, and that I'd never have another chance to do that," or "I wanted to try public interest before making the jump to a big firm, and now I believe that a big firm is the right fit for me" or whatever -- these aren't put the best way but you can come up with something.

blsingindisguise
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Re: BigLaw without Firm Experience

Postby blsingindisguise » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:35 pm

In other words -- it's not easy to get biglaw as a 3L who didn't summer in biglaw, but that's because most of the hiring is already done, not because you get some kind of invaluable training and experience in the 2.5 months you spend as an SA that you can never make up.

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alphasteve
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Re: BigLaw without Firm Experience

Postby alphasteve » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:42 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
alphasteve wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Rising 3L. Top 5% of TTT Class, but it's not unheard of for people for my school to hit biglaw in top 10%. Issue is this: I've only had public interest/PD work experience in law school - nothing in a firm. I'm not actually hellbent on Biglaw (I have always wanted to be a PD, but the closer my loans get to coming into repayment the more I'm reconsidering that). Question is...do I have any shot at getting hired based on grades/moot court/trial experience/recommendations from supervisors?

Oh, and I've already committed this summer to a fairly prestigious PD office in a major city, so SA is out.

Thoughts?

From what I've seen with friends that weren't in the hiring zone for biglaw during 1L, it's definitely possible to move from non-biglaw to biglaw (so assuming you would be in a better position, having been within the hiring zone). That said, they were practicing the type of law that they lateraled into, and it was mostly corporate type work. You've got to think about what you add to the firm.


Nonsense. Your 3-month summer experience makes no fucking difference to what you "add" to a biglaw firm, whether it's a SA position or selling ice cream at the boardwalk. There is no material difference between the useful skills/experience of 95% of incoming first-years in biglaw beyond raw ability and willingness to grind/suck-up.

The reason most biglaw positions go to people who summer in biglaw is because that's how biglaw hiring works. By 3L most of the spots are gone. That's it. It's totally unimportant that he was in public interest. A little spin and you're completely in the clear on that -- "I realized I really wanted to get the big firm experience and training, and that I'd never have another chance to do that," or "I wanted to try public interest before making the jump to a big firm, and now I believe that a big firm is the right fit for me" or whatever -- these aren't put the best way but you can come up with something.

Actually in an odd way, my post actually supports your point... It didn't even cross my mind that OP would be considering getting hired during 3L. I honestly thought, based on what was said, that OP was going to practice at the PD for some time and then try to move to biglaw. So, I completely agree with your sum up point.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: BigLaw without Firm Experience

Postby XxSpyKEx » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:39 pm

alphasteve wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
alphasteve wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Rising 3L. Top 5% of TTT Class, but it's not unheard of for people for my school to hit biglaw in top 10%. Issue is this: I've only had public interest/PD work experience in law school - nothing in a firm. I'm not actually hellbent on Biglaw (I have always wanted to be a PD, but the closer my loans get to coming into repayment the more I'm reconsidering that). Question is...do I have any shot at getting hired based on grades/moot court/trial experience/recommendations from supervisors?

Oh, and I've already committed this summer to a fairly prestigious PD office in a major city, so SA is out.

Thoughts?

From what I've seen with friends that weren't in the hiring zone for biglaw during 1L, it's definitely possible to move from non-biglaw to biglaw (so assuming you would be in a better position, having been within the hiring zone). That said, they were practicing the type of law that they lateraled into, and it was mostly corporate type work. You've got to think about what you add to the firm.


Nonsense. Your 3-month summer experience makes no fucking difference to what you "add" to a biglaw firm, whether it's a SA position or selling ice cream at the boardwalk. There is no material difference between the useful skills/experience of 95% of incoming first-years in biglaw beyond raw ability and willingness to grind/suck-up.

The reason most biglaw positions go to people who summer in biglaw is because that's how biglaw hiring works. By 3L most of the spots are gone. That's it. It's totally unimportant that he was in public interest. A little spin and you're completely in the clear on that -- "I realized I really wanted to get the big firm experience and training, and that I'd never have another chance to do that," or "I wanted to try public interest before making the jump to a big firm, and now I believe that a big firm is the right fit for me" or whatever -- these aren't put the best way but you can come up with something.

Actually in an odd way, my post actually supports your point... It didn't even cross my mind that OP would be considering getting hired during 3L. I honestly thought, based on what was said, that OP was going to practice at the PD for some time and then try to move to biglaw. So, I completely agree with your sum up point.


I think that would be even more difficult, since practice areas don't really line up. The closest thing is litigation, but there's not anywhere near as many of those lateral openings as there are corporate openings. Only thing big firm's do in the realm of criminal practice is white collar, but you really need to be an AUSA to lateral into one of those spots.

In any event, OP, odds are going to be pretty low to snag up biglaw as a 3L from a TTT. 2L SA might have happened, but by 3L there are very few openings left (although, it's a lot better than it was in 2010---there were literally something like 15-20 3Ls hired nationwide that year), and most of the openings tend to be at the tipity top firms that won't consider TTT grads. Not saying it's not worth a shot, but recognize it's not very likely. 2L SA is the way to get biglaw for someone in your position. In the long-run, though, if you want to be a PD, you're probably better off just doing that instead of biglaw. You can cop that PSLF, which helps with loans. And it's going to be really difficult to get to a PD's office after spending a few years in biglaw (most of them want people who are committed to PI and to indigent defense work, which is pretty much the polar opposite of biglaw). With that said, if you're not sure of what you want, PD is a pretty big loss in terms of lifetime earnings (you're talking about making around $50k /year with very small yearly increases versus making closer to $175k /year with large yearly increases).

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alphasteve
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Re: BigLaw without Firm Experience

Postby alphasteve » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:27 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
I think that would be even more difficult, since practice areas don't really line up. The closest thing is litigation, but there's not anywhere near as many of those lateral openings as there are corporate openings. Only thing big firm's do in the realm of criminal practice is white collar, but you really need to be an AUSA to lateral into one of those spots.

Yeah - that was my, perhaps obfuscated, point; if already in practice or starting at a PD, biglaw is going to be tough because "what do you add to the firm?" Where I had anecdotal evidence of lateraling from non-biglaw to biglaw, it was for people that worked in very similar practice areas (e.g. M&A work, funds, [X-type] litigation)




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