Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

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unitball
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Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby unitball » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:28 am

I'm a rising 3L and ended up accepting a job for this summer at a firm I'm almost positive I do not want to stay at after I graduate. The only reason I accepted the summer offer was because I was worried about not having any employment at all this summer, so I jumped at the opportunity. It's a good opportunity to get some experience in the field that I want to practice and it's close to my law school, so it is convenient, but after I graduate I do not want to stay in this area.

Does it look bad to future employers if I am looking for a post-graduation job while working for another firm over the summer?

Does it look bad to other employers if I am looking for a different job after having finished summering (2nd summer) at another firm?

I was under the impression that law firms hired rising 3L's over the summer with the expectation that they might give them a job offer for post-graduation employment, so that if you don't continue to work at the firm where you did a summer internship, then it looks sketchy (as if you got rejected or something).

Am I over thinking this?

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby Capitol_Idea » Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:49 am

You're not the only rising 3L who does this - accordingly there are some spots opening at various firms where one of their 3Ls jumps ship.

This is somewhat unpredictable, but you're miles ahead in consideration for hiring than the poor 3Ls who couldn't get a SA and offer. Stick to firms in your relative 'prestige' range (Vault, Amlaw, etc. - I don't know the particulars here so am open to correction) You probably can't go from, say, Reed Smith to Cravath, but you could possibly do Cravath to Skadden.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:11 am

It doesn't look bad but you should probably take a job offer if you get one. You can always renege.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby Capitol_Idea » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:30 am

Oh yeah - to clarify: you accept the offer then shop around. Turning down an offer without a backup in place seems suicidal.

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pancakes3
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby pancakes3 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:43 am

zacharus85 wrote:Oh yeah - to clarify: you accept the offer then shop around. Turning down an offer without a backup in place seems suicidal.


Think the OP already accepted the offer. He's worried that in doing 3L interviewing it'll either look like he got no-offered or he'll look... duplicitous in keeping a SA offer in his back pocket while actively interviewing elsewhere.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby Capitol_Idea » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:45 am

Very right - I was intending clarification for future readers.

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Kratos
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby Kratos » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:09 pm

zacharus85 wrote:You're not the only rising 3L who does this - accordingly there are some spots opening at various firms where one of their 3Ls jumps ship.

This is somewhat unpredictable, but you're miles ahead in consideration for hiring than the poor 3Ls who couldn't get a SA and offer. Stick to firms in your relative 'prestige' range (Vault, Amlaw, etc. - I don't know the particulars here so am open to correction) You probably can't go from, say, Reed Smith to Cravath, but you could possibly do Cravath to Skadden.

the bolded seems dumb. OP should apply broadly like everyone else

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Avian
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby Avian » Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:40 pm

Kratos wrote:
zacharus85 wrote:You're not the only rising 3L who does this - accordingly there are some spots opening at various firms where one of their 3Ls jumps ship.

This is somewhat unpredictable, but you're miles ahead in consideration for hiring than the poor 3Ls who couldn't get a SA and offer. Stick to firms in your relative 'prestige' range (Vault, Amlaw, etc. - I don't know the particulars here so am open to correction) You probably can't go from, say, Reed Smith to Cravath, but you could possibly do Cravath to Skadden.

the bolded seems dumb. OP should apply broadly like everyone else

Depends how the bidding works at OP's school. If you have limited bids you don't want to waste them on firms that you're not competitive for.

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Kratos
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby Kratos » Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:50 pm

Avian wrote:
Kratos wrote:
zacharus85 wrote:You're not the only rising 3L who does this - accordingly there are some spots opening at various firms where one of their 3Ls jumps ship.

This is somewhat unpredictable, but you're miles ahead in consideration for hiring than the poor 3Ls who couldn't get a SA and offer. Stick to firms in your relative 'prestige' range (Vault, Amlaw, etc. - I don't know the particulars here so am open to correction) You probably can't go from, say, Reed Smith to Cravath, but you could possibly do Cravath to Skadden.

the bolded seems dumb. OP should apply broadly like everyone else

Depends how the bidding works at OP's school. If you have limited bids you don't want to waste them on firms that you're not competitive for.

oh yea, thought he was talking mass mail.

unitball
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby unitball » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:51 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:It doesn't look bad but you should probably take a job offer if you get one. You can always renege.


Is this common? Accept a job offer and then decline it later? I am willing to absorb a little bit of bad karma if the choice to renege is ultimately better for my well-being and career.

pancakes3 wrote:Think the OP already accepted the offer. He's worried that in doing 3L interviewing it'll either look like he got no-offered or he'll look... duplicitous in keeping a SA offer in his back pocket while actively interviewing elsewhere.


wise.


pancakes3 wrote:Think the OP already accepted the offer. He's worried that in doing 3L interviewing it'll either look like he got no-offered or he'll look... duplicitous in keeping a SA offer in his back pocket while actively interviewing elsewhere.

You're right, i accepted the offer for the SUMMER position (which hasn't even begun yet). I am talking about continuing to shop around for a post-graduation job either while I am working this summer, or throughout my 3L year.

Anonymous User
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:57 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
zacharus85 wrote:Oh yeah - to clarify: you accept the offer then shop around. Turning down an offer without a backup in place seems suicidal.


Think the OP already accepted the offer. He's worried that in doing 3L interviewing it'll either look like he got no-offered or he'll look... duplicitous in keeping a SA offer in his back pocket while actively interviewing elsewhere.


if your stats meet what they want, they'll ask why he's looking again and this is where he can talk about change of interests w/e and overcome the concern of no-offer, etc.

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SquedTheScholar
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby SquedTheScholar » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:24 am

zacharus85 wrote: Stick to firms in your relative 'prestige' range (Vault, Amlaw, etc. - I don't know the particulars here so am open to correction) You probably can't go from, say, Reed Smith to Cravath, but you could possibly do Cravath to Skadden.


This could not be more false.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby Capitol_Idea » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:30 am

SquedTheScholar wrote:
zacharus85 wrote: Stick to firms in your relative 'prestige' range (Vault, Amlaw, etc. - I don't know the particulars here so am open to correction) You probably can't go from, say, Reed Smith to Cravath, but you could possibly do Cravath to Skadden.


This could not be more false.

Sure, because dude who didn't have resume/grades for V10 first time around TOTALLY will be a prime candidate for any 3L spots, especially compared to the competing 3Ls actually coming from top firm offers. But no, you shoot for the stars, kid.

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OutCold
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby OutCold » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:32 am

I declined with my summer firm after receiving an offer with another firm during 3L recruiting. I was asked why I switched firms in most of my clerkship interviews (by the clerks, not the judges), and definitely at the firms I applied to post-clerkship. It's not a bad thing if you an articulate a good reason why you left, but it doesn't just fly under the radar.

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smaug
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby smaug » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:34 am

zacharus85 wrote:
SquedTheScholar wrote:
zacharus85 wrote: Stick to firms in your relative 'prestige' range (Vault, Amlaw, etc. - I don't know the particulars here so am open to correction) You probably can't go from, say, Reed Smith to Cravath, but you could possibly do Cravath to Skadden.


This could not be more false.

Sure, because dude who didn't have resume/grades for V10 first time around TOTALLY will be a prime candidate for any 3L spots, especially compared to the competing 3Ls actually coming from top firm offers. But no, you shoot for the stars, kid.

I know people who struck out of 2L hiring who ended up at V10s through 3L hiring.

Apply broadly. My impression is that 3L hiring is based on need, so they are a little more loose with the credentials.

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Kratos
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby Kratos » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:25 pm

zacharus85 wrote:
SquedTheScholar wrote:
zacharus85 wrote: Stick to firms in your relative 'prestige' range (Vault, Amlaw, etc. - I don't know the particulars here so am open to correction) You probably can't go from, say, Reed Smith to Cravath, but you could possibly do Cravath to Skadden.


This could not be more false.

Sure, because dude who didn't have resume/grades for V10 first time around TOTALLY will be a prime candidate for any 3L spots, especially compared to the competing 3Ls actually coming from top firm offers. But no, you shoot for the stars, kid.

Yea not trying is a much better strategy

Anonymous User
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:47 pm

OP-

As others have said, you should accept the offer and then interview. On your resume, you should put something like this:

K&L Gates, Summer Associate (offer received)
May-August, 2014

Note that you received on offer on your resume and then it won't look like you got turned down or whatever. Tons of people do this, myself included. I switched firms and markets during my 3L year and it worked out great. Good luck!

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AreJay711
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Re: Does it look bad if I decline offer from my 2nd summer's job

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:28 pm

unitball wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:It doesn't look bad but you should probably take a job offer if you get one. You can always renege.


Is this common? Accept a job offer and then decline it later? I am willing to absorb a little bit of bad karma if the choice to renege is ultimately better for my well-being and career.



It's not super common, but they won't care. Worst case scenario, the firm/agency/organization needs someone so will just grab a 3L or someone post-clerkship who, in their eyes, is either indistinguishable or an upgrade from you.




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