Genuine Plea for advice

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Anonymous User
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Genuine Plea for advice

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:38 pm

I am choosing to post this anonymously even though one could discover my TLS identity based on my stats and previous posts.
A little background:
I am a transfer student at UT. My first year was spent at Loyola New Orleans. I ended up just one spot shy of the top 5%, grading onto law review, booking two substantive classes, and generally competing at a high level, albeit against supposed inferior competition. At UT, I think I am just outside of the top 15% of the class. I had one class in which my performance was below average, otherwise I would be comfortably in the top 10%. As a transfer, my gpa is still somewhat malleable so I am gunning incredibly hard for coif this semester with an outside shot at magna because I am taking 15 hours. In anticipation of skepticism concerning my 1l pedigree, I have made a point to take the hardest classes I can, making A's in most of them and one A+. These classes include secured credit, ba, oil and gas, evidence, con law (didn't take at 1l school), con law II, con crime pro...this semester I am taking security reg, admin, employment law among others. I have sought to make my schedule the law school version of SEC football. I have a fed dist clerkship lined up in a flyover district for next year.
The Employment question:
This past summer, I worked in my hometown tertiary market for two of the most "prominent" firms in the area. One did not offer any of the SA's. The other firm basically said they wanted to hire me and I told them, with some hesitation, that I probably would seek to find other employment. This firm isn't big law. Its a 15 person litigation shop starting around 70k but only hiring people they intend to make partners in six years. I would venture partners easily pull in over 100. I am super connected at this firm. My uncle is the founding partner and my best friend's dad is what I would call the secondary founding partner. They told me that if I turned them down, there was a good chance they would hire someone else and not have a need anymore after my clerkship. I loved the firm and people but I did not like the type of law practiced. It was mostly med mal defense and insurance defense. Not the most intellectually stimulating work. Im really starting to worry now about post clerkship prospects and whether I might be best served taking the job. I might be just overly optimistic, and I in no way mean this to be offensive, but I think that I can do better. So thats part of the question, was this a stupid move on my part? I'm betting on myself because I know that I can compete at a high level intellectually and would like to practice securities litigation in a large city. Not necessarily big law but you get the idea. Did I fuck up? Should I take the position assuming its still on the table?

arklaw13
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Re: Genuine Plea for advice

Postby arklaw13 » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:04 am

With a district court clerkship, you shouldn't have too difficult of a time getting a biglaw job if that's what you want. Why didn't you do a 2L biglaw SA?

Anonymous User
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Re: Genuine Plea for advice

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:19 am

I did not do a 2L SA because I missed OCI and got nothing through mass mail. I could not make up my mind on whether to transfer until after OCI deadline had passed. I still transferred anyways because I knew I wanted to clerk and UT made that more realistic.

m.r.ducks
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Re: Genuine Plea for advice

Postby m.r.ducks » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:25 am

That hasn't been my experience. Clerks whom have 2L big law experience simply go back to those firms. They are golden and that is absolutely the best course to take as these students generally have great GPAs. I have found fed clerks (though not super prestigious like SDNY) have a very hard time breaking into big law without some summer big law experience. You have to find the firm that is looking for litigation associates outside their summer program. In cities like DC and LA, that is very very rare. Coupled with the fact that litigation is going through a slow spell, which also may make finding a position a bit harder.

Anonymous User
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Re: Genuine Plea for advice

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:29 am

The above is about what I figured. Although I never anticipated being very competitive in DC or LA. Mostly looking for something in Texas or NY. I'm not dead set on going to a vault firm, conversations such as this make me think that might not be realistic anyways, I just want to be in a position where I can practice a type of law I find enjoyable. Thats my main concern.

JAYINSD
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Re: Genuine Plea for advice

Postby JAYINSD » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am choosing to post this anonymously even though one could discover my TLS identity based on my stats and previous posts.
A little background:
I am a transfer student at UT. My first year was spent at Loyola New Orleans. I ended up just one spot shy of the top 5%, grading onto law review, booking two substantive classes, and generally competing at a high level, albeit against supposed inferior competition. At UT, I think I am just outside of the top 15% of the class. I had one class in which my performance was below average, otherwise I would be comfortably in the top 10%. As a transfer, my gpa is still somewhat malleable so I am gunning incredibly hard for coif this semester with an outside shot at magna because I am taking 15 hours. In anticipation of skepticism concerning my 1l pedigree, I have made a point to take the hardest classes I can, making A's in most of them and one A+. These classes include secured credit, ba, oil and gas, evidence, con law (didn't take at 1l school), con law II, con crime pro...this semester I am taking security reg, admin, employment law among others. I have sought to make my schedule the law school version of SEC football. I have a fed dist clerkship lined up in a flyover district for next year.
The Employment question:
This past summer, I worked in my hometown tertiary market for two of the most "prominent" firms in the area. One did not offer any of the SA's. The other firm basically said they wanted to hire me and I told them, with some hesitation, that I probably would seek to find other employment. This firm isn't big law. Its a 15 person litigation shop starting around 70k but only hiring people they intend to make partners in six years. I would venture partners easily pull in over 100. I am super connected at this firm. My uncle is the founding partner and my best friend's dad is what I would call the secondary founding partner. They told me that if I turned them down, there was a good chance they would hire someone else and not have a need anymore after my clerkship. I loved the firm and people but I did not like the type of law practiced. It was mostly med mal defense and insurance defense. Not the most intellectually stimulating work. Im really starting to worry now about post clerkship prospects and whether I might be best served taking the job. I might be just overly optimistic, and I in no way mean this to be offensive, but I think that I can do better. So thats part of the question, was this a stupid move on my part? I'm betting on myself because I know that I can compete at a high level intellectually and would like to practice securities litigation in a large city. Not necessarily big law but you get the idea. Did I fuck up? Should I take the position assuming its still on the table?


Do 3L OCI, as a UT top 15%, it shouldn't be too hard for you to find mid or big law in TX market.

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J9ofDiamonds
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Re: Genuine Plea for advice

Postby J9ofDiamonds » Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:23 am

SEC SEC

I'd be surprised if you had trouble getting big law after a fed clerkship. I don't really know of any smaller firms that have a large sec reg practice, but maybe there are some boutiques. Nice job on the grades

Anonymous User
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Re: Genuine Plea for advice

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:24 am

Obviously it would have been better to leave your 2L position as a maybe (if you could have). But, with family, sometimes you want to be more up front than you would otherwise. That firm sounds like my version of hell so I don't blame you for turning it down.

I'm really confused by your question. If you want a firm job, K&E Houston, JD Dallas, and BB Dallas are all currently hiring. The positions may not (won't) be securities lit but you don't have that as an option currently anyway. Assuming you aren't going to bail on the clerkship, just start applying for stuff and let them know that it would be to start fall of 2016 or whatever. Hopefully you'll have at least a handful of options to choose from by the time your clerkship ends. There isn't really much else you can do. Congratulations on the grades and best of luck!

Also, just as a reference: A recent post on here for UT had 2014 Coif at 3.8 (or maybe 3.81) and magna at 3.89. Although, based on the chancellor's cutoff they had in 2014, I think grades are lower for class of 2015.

Also, for others reading this, I really hope it works out for OP but it is insane to transfer after missing OCI. The primary reason you are writing a bigger check to UT over the next 2 years is to attend their OCI with UT on your resume.

Anonymous User
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Re: Genuine Plea for advice

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:54 am

OP here
Yea, no one should ever do what I did in terms of missing OCI. I'm in a bit of a different position from most in that my parents are paying for most of my school and I luckily got a clerkship. For most people, i understand that not to be the case. I probably shouldn't have don't it, but I don't think the clerkship would have been possible (but who knows) from my TTT. So I think it worked out in this very very particular situation.

Anonymous User
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Re: Genuine Plea for advice

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here
Yea, no one should ever do what I did in terms of missing OCI. I'm in a bit of a different position from most in that my parents are paying for most of my school and I luckily got a clerkship. For most people, i understand that not to be the case. I probably shouldn't have don't it, but I don't think the clerkship would have been possible (but who knows) from my TTT. So I think it worked out in this very very particular situation.


Yeah, that wasn't meant to be a criticism of your particular choices. It sounds like you did well enough grade-wise that you will get a significant benefit from transferring even with missing OCI.

But, and I have to add this, it sounds like "working out" for you is practicing securities lit, not getting a district clerkship. Not saying the clerkship won't help, but OCI was far more likely to land you a firm job practicing securities lit than the clerkship will be. You'll definitely find something though.

Again, it's totally in fine in your situation but I'm always confused when law students say X is their goal but focus more on Y. I feel like I hear this a lot in conversations.

Anonymous User
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Re: Genuine Plea for advice

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:08 pm

OP here:
Yea, I guess when it said worked out, I was referring to the reason I transferred, which was to get a fed clerkship. I did not know I would find the substance of securities interesting until I took BA of 2L year, and this has been reinforced with securities reg this semester. I think what I'm going to do is apply to Texas big law and mid law firms for after my clerkship in the hopes of getting some interest. I really would like to practice securities lit, but I would be ok with more general commercial litigation...I just really don't want to do insurance defense as my main practice lol. Maybe one day I can join a securities group or lateral or whatever...thats just the ultimate dream but by no means the only practice that would make me happy. Luckily, I really find (most) legal subjects interesting...just not insurance defense. I appreciate all the feedback and as a random aside...very pleased with class of 14 numbers and hoping that the large transfer class of 15, many of whom I can attest are still looking for legal employment, doesn't wreck the progress. I know of at least a couple others with fed clerkships and many with Tex S.Ct clerkships, which won't factor into BL/FC, but is still a great outcome in my opinion.




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