What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
ClubberLang
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 11:34 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby ClubberLang » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:Why don't you want to destroy the documents?

It's probably not defamation to report him, but it doesn't seem worth a fight. You are going to need this dude (or someone at his firm) when time comes to be admitted to the bar. You don't want to win this.


OP

It's not so much I don't want to destroy the documents as I'm curious why he's requesting this. A little background. He claims he sent me a check and that it was cashed; this was a month ago. When I showed him I received no check, ignored me after telling me it was sent to an address that was similar to mine but didn't exist. Only after I contacted his firm did I find out he didn't have me on record as working for them. Then he stated in an email that he will not pay me until I destroy all work products. Overall, he's a concerning person...

I forgot to mention, there was no client involved, just data analysis. This was not for a case.

Regarding the bar, I called them and they said this happens a lot and are not concerned. I asked if I should just write an affidavit and attach corresponding emails, and they said that would help.


Maybe law isn't for you. If this is serious, it is some of the most idiotic behavior (by you) that I have ever heard of. I've read your other posts on this same subject, wondering if you were retarded, but this post has confirmed that you are.

Destroy the documents, STFU, and leave this dude alone.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22842
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:10 pm

Dude, could you read the whole thread before you comment? However they got there, asking the OP to destroy their e-mail communications is pretty shady.

User avatar
Desert Fox
Progressively loosing literacy
Posts: 14421
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby Desert Fox » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:12 pm

Employer is definitely trying to rip you off, but it also sounded like you did SPS work product.

ClubberLang
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 11:34 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby ClubberLang » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:16 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Dude, could you read the whole thread before you comment? However they got there, asking the OP to destroy their e-mail communications is pretty shady.


I have read almost everything related to this saga with great interest.

Maybe my comment was a bit harsh, but the bridges this guy is burning by feuding with this partner couldn't possibly be worth the couple hundred bucks he's after. Anyways, the way to deal with this is to apologize to the guy for being a twat, and let him know you'll destroy the documents but would still like to be paid. He'll pay.

User avatar
rpupkin
Posts: 3864
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby rpupkin » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:21 pm

ClubberLang wrote:Maybe my comment was a bit harsh, but the bridges this guy is burning by feuding with this partner couldn't possibly be worth the couple hundred bucks he's after. Anyways, the way to deal with this is to apologize to the guy for being a twat, and let him know you'll destroy the documents but would still like to be paid. He'll pay.

That's a really confident conclusion given the circumstances. If you've been following the saga, doesn't it seem pretty clear that the partner is going out of his way not to pay the OP the measly few hundred dollars he's owed? I mean, the whole "I bet someone stole your check in the mail" thing sounds like something a deadbeat tenant says to a landlord. And note that the partner didn't raise the suddenly important "document destruction" issue before allegedly sending the check to the OP several weeks ago. The partner keeps coming up with new excuses not to pay the OP.

Now, we could be getting a distorted (or fabricated) version of events. But if everything the OP shared is close to the truth, then I have serious doubts about whether he will ever be paid.

User avatar
seespotrun
Posts: 2395
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:36 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby seespotrun » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:26 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Employer is definitely trying to rip you off, but it also sounded like you did SPS work product.

You have to hate yourself for this. (It's what I wanted to say too. 60/500 is embarrassing.)

User avatar
Tanicius
Posts: 2957
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:54 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby Tanicius » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:26 pm

ClubberLang wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Dude, could you read the whole thread before you comment? However they got there, asking the OP to destroy their e-mail communications is pretty shady.


I have read almost everything related to this saga with great interest.

Maybe my comment was a bit harsh, but the bridges this guy is burning by feuding with this partner couldn't possibly be worth the couple hundred bucks he's after. Anyways, the way to deal with this is to apologize to the guy for being a twat, and let him know you'll destroy the documents but would still like to be paid. He'll pay.


There are no fucking bridges he has with this partner or anybody this partner knows. The partner is a shady nobody that probably no one even listens to in the first place. He's not going to have any problem with the bar because he's been keeping them in the loop on all of this and has email documentation to prove that the partner is just being an ass.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:31 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:the problem was that there is no client involved, and he had "interesting" behavior before. i already spoke with HR; they're claiming no connection with this guy's hiring activities because, again, there was no client involved

Wait....what? So a partner hired you to do legal work in connection with his law practice, and the firm's HR department treats it like the guy hired a gardener to pull weeds at his private home or something.

So many things about this story are weird.



welcome to my world... of all the ridiculous people to run into. i put the problem to two friends, one clerking for a federal court of appeals and one working as a 7th year associate at a v10. both of them said i should report this guy to the bar after reading his email stating he will not pay me the $ he owes me until i meet his new demand. one of them suspects i'm not the first person he's done this to, and that what he's actually afraid of is the bar finding out that first check he allegedly issued never existed.

@clubber: if you have been reading everything, then you'd have realized we're past the point of money. this is now a question of, "i don't know what he got me mixed up in anymore and given his nature he might cause more trouble in the future", so how do i establish a paper trail so that he does not.

@DF: 500 contracts * 50 pages / 5 days = 5000 pages a day. i can't read or even skim that fast. 60*50/ 5 days = 600 pages a day. that's 50 pages/hr for 12 straight hours + filling out that mile-long spreadsheet
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
seespotrun
Posts: 2395
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:36 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby seespotrun » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:31 pm

Tanicius is OP's employer.

User avatar
JohannDeMann
Posts: 13831
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:25 pm

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby JohannDeMann » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:31 pm

just report him to the bar

ClubberLang
Posts: 207
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 11:34 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby ClubberLang » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:33 pm

At some point OP should realize the being a turd strategy isn't working. A change in tactics may be beneficial. A law student contacting the bar about this seems extreme and foolish.

User avatar
El Pollito
party fowl
Posts: 17896
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:11 pm

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby El Pollito » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:35 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:just report him to the bar

yeah i don't get why you don't just do this instead of making these threads

dixiecupdrinking
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:35 pm

You're being paranoid. It's not unreasonable for him to ensure you aren't keeping copies of work product. You don't work there anymore.

I think I remember you posted a prior thread about the contracts. I think you handled that poorly and you're handling this poorly.

User avatar
justonemoregame
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:51 pm

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby justonemoregame » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:37 pm

"waiting time" :D

Anonymous User
Posts: 273311
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:43 pm

El Pollito wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:just report him to the bar

yeah i don't get why you don't just do this instead of making these threads


because i'd rather not star in my own real life court drama if i can avoid it (and part of me hopes he might turn reasonable eventually.) besides, creating a thread to ask for advice takes 5 minutes. reporting a partner (even an unreasonable partner) of a law firm and having to deal with his temper takes a lot longer than 5 minutes.

@ dixie: read the entire thing... it's not the request to delete work products that are the problem. it's the request to delete email communications which contains his allegations that he sent a check when none arrived.

sparty99
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby sparty99 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:49 pm

The OP's a damn pussy. Just tell the twat that you deleted the files and that you want to get paid. If he still doesn't pay, then SUPRISE, you made back up copies. And they still exist. So pay up. Report him to the firm. Contact the firm's managing partner. Contact HR again. Go to small claims court. Report him to the bar. If you got the job through your school, also contact your school. Have them intervene as well.

dixiecupdrinking
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
El Pollito wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:just report him to the bar

yeah i don't get why you don't just do this instead of making these threads


because i'd rather not star in my own real life court drama if i can avoid it (and part of me hopes he might turn reasonable eventually.) besides, creating a thread to ask for advice takes 5 minutes. reporting a partner (even an unreasonable partner) of a law firm and having to deal with his temper takes a lot longer than 5 minutes.

@ dixie: read the entire thing... it's not the request to delete work products that are the problem. it's the request to delete email communications which contains his allegations that he sent a check when none arrived.

That's not what you said originally. You only suggested he might want you to delete emails after being pressed on this. I frankly just think that you are probably misinterpreting a reasonable request, and your attitude about how you handled the contract review assignment makes me think you need to reassess whether you've approached this whole employment relationship from the wrong angle.

User avatar
Tanicius
Posts: 2957
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:54 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby Tanicius » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:38 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:You're being paranoid. It's not unreasonable for him to ensure you aren't keeping copies of work product. You don't work there anymore.

I think I remember you posted a prior thread about the contracts. I think you handled that poorly and you're handling this poorly.


Holy shit, is nobody reading the thread?

dixiecupdrinking
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:05 am

Tanicius wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:You're being paranoid. It's not unreasonable for him to ensure you aren't keeping copies of work product. You don't work there anymore.

I think I remember you posted a prior thread about the contracts. I think you handled that poorly and you're handling this poorly.


Holy shit, is nobody reading the thread?

I read the thread. I see OP being cagey, revealing additional vague information after not receiving the reaction he wanted, and overall seeming paranoid about what's most likely an innocent situation. Even now OP still seems to suggest that it's only "work product" he's being asked to destroy and I don't see how that could be construed to include emails about this situation. I guess I just don't believe some parts of the story have happened as described, and the idea of going to the bar over it is bizarre. I mean what is the potential ethical issue facing OP here, exactly? Where does this need to protect himself come from? He'll get paid or not, but if there's no client then destroying these documents shouldn't have any repercussions even if the result is that this lawyer for some reason eliminates all traces of the work being done. The whole story just makes no sense.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22842
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:@ other25: he did absolutely request it. his words were that he will not pay unless all "work products and communications" are deleted

This is what people are referring to - a specific request that the OP delete all communications between the two of them.

This doesn't really go to whether the OP handled the original assignment well, the situation is weird, and sure, OP could be making any of all of this up, but this is what people are pointing to that looks shady.

mvp99
Posts: 1384
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:00 pm

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby mvp99 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:15 am

SPS = sub par s????????

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22842
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: What do you do with someone you know is unethical?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:29 am

shit pure shit.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.