Grade drop to no offer?

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Anonymous User
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Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:46 pm

Anyone know what grade drop will justify no offering someone at a top NYC firm (think Sullivan & Cromwell/Davis Polk/Paul Weiss/Cravath) from CCN? I've dropped from about top 5% to ~top 25% (not for lack of trying...) and am getting worried. Thanks in advance!

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L’Étranger
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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby L’Étranger » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:01 pm

To ease your mind, search this topic. There have been numerous threads in the past. Consensus seems to be that a drop like you're describing has no effect by itself. Do good work and be professional over the summer and you should be golden.

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know what grade drop will justify no offering someone at a top NYC firm (think Sullivan & Cromwell/Davis Polk/Paul Weiss/Cravath) from CCN? I've dropped from about top 5% to ~top 25% (not for lack of trying...) and am getting worried. Thanks in advance!

I dropped from top 10% to below median. I'm not worried - neither should you be. I've never ever heard of a no-offer at these firms for grades.

KidStuddi
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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby KidStuddi » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:27 pm

My firm (in the category you described) didn't even ask for our transcripts again until after 3L. And even then, they specifically told us to wait until our transcripts were updated to show that the JD had been awarded before sending them in (i.e. they didn't care about the grades just the proof that you graduated).

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:51 pm

Similar spot here and going to one of the firms listed. Was top 10-15% after 1L and median or below last semester (though should still be above median after 1L grades).

I realize nothing can be done about fall grades at this point but I am a bit worried, truth be told.

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:13 pm

I also dropped to median from like top 30ish. Not worried.

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:16 pm

I've heard stories about Cravath being *meh* about a big grade drop, esp if you no longer meet what their cutoff would have been, but not the others. I don't mean no offer meh, just someone might have a short conversation with you about it meh.

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bearsfan23
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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby bearsfan23 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:54 pm

You need to be proactive about this OP in order to avoid a no-offer.

Make sure you explain to every partner, not just those on the hiring committee, how your grades have nosedived during 2L. Don't wait for them to no offer you

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:02 am

Lol so many pranksters in this thread. OP you're fine. I was at one of those firms with a similar drop. I don't think they even looked at my updated transcript. Don't worry about it.

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:I've heard stories about Cravath being *meh* about a big grade drop, esp if you no longer meet what their cutoff would have been, but not the others. I don't mean no offer meh, just someone might have a short conversation with you about it meh.

What does that even mean? I can't imagine what they would even say.

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:52 am

Does this only reply to the great big firms, or smaller big firms as well? (Like lower V100 or even big regional firms

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:00 am

With this grade drop you could get no offered, so you need to really knock it out of the park during your SA. For instance, if you are working in litigation call an attorney on the other side of the case and try to settle the matter. If the firm sees that you're able to handle complicated cases and reach a resolution they will overlook the grade drop and give you an offer.

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banjo
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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby banjo » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:23 am

So you had a mix of A/A- and now you have a mix of A-/B+. No one's going to notice.

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:22 pm

Right but what if you got a summer associate for your 1L year? (based on first semester grades)

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've heard stories about Cravath being *meh* about a big grade drop, esp if you no longer meet what their cutoff would have been, but not the others. I don't mean no offer meh, just someone might have a short conversation with you about it meh.

What does that even mean? I can't imagine what they would even say.

"I just want to let you know that, despite your grade drop, you still have a position here as an associate at Cravath, Swaine, & Moore. I also want to let you know that we think you suck."

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:29 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've heard stories about Cravath being *meh* about a big grade drop, esp if you no longer meet what their cutoff would have been, but not the others. I don't mean no offer meh, just someone might have a short conversation with you about it meh.

What does that even mean? I can't imagine what they would even say.

"I just want to let you know that, despite your grade drop, you still have a position here as an associate at Cravath, Swaine, & Moore. I also want to let you know that we think you suck."

That sounds closer to a cold-offer. I've talked to a bunch of people going there and no one said to be concerned about grades whatsoever.

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:25 pm

It'll only come up if you're already on the outs. The whole purpose of grades is to predict work product. When people like you they make up excuses why you're great. When they don't they make up excuses why you suck. This is true professionally and in every other aspect of life. The idea that they're going to bring you in, spend lots of money wining and dining you, like being around you and be blown away by your work, but no offer you because you got a C+ in Professor Snoozebucket's 18th century ocean law seminar is pretty out of touch with reality.

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Right but what if you got a summer associate for your 1L year? (based on first semester grades)


my guess is that could have an impact on your offer to return for 2L summer, but if it's:

banjo wrote:So you had a mix of A/A- and now you have a mix of A-/B+...


then

banjo wrote:No one's going to notice.


Just don't completely shit the bed (e.g. fail a class)

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby mvp99 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:31 pm

does your firm even asks for your transcript at the end of the summer? some don't care enough to ask

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:35 pm

mvp99 wrote:does your firm even asks for your transcript at the end of the summer? some don't care enough to ask

My v5 had us sign over that they can pull our transcripts whenever they want back in the Fall.

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
mvp99 wrote:does your firm even asks for your transcript at the end of the summer? some don't care enough to ask

My v5 had us sign over that they can pull our transcripts whenever they want back in the Fall.


I know you're not going to out the firm, but that's some TTT bullshit. Like Kidstuddi my firm is also in OP's range and only asks for transcripts after 3L to make sure you actually got a JD.

Then again, it seems like all the v5's have pretty close to a 100% offer rate, so its hard to see what kind've grade drop could ever even lead to a no offer

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:It'll only come up if you're already on the outs. The whole purpose of grades is to predict work product. When people like you they make up excuses why you're great. When they don't they make up excuses why you suck. This is true professionally and in every other aspect of life. The idea that they're going to bring you in, spend lots of money wining and dining you, like being around you and be blown away by your work, but no offer you because you got a C+ in Professor Snoozebucket's 18th century ocean law seminar is pretty out of touch with reality.


This. I had a fairly massive grade drop (top 5% to medianish) and summered at a very grade sensitive firm that is known for not being afraid to no-offer some of its class. I was fine and my grades were never even mentioned in my exit interview. The people who were no-offered had kept up better grades than me. After your foot is in the door, it's all about work product and whether other partners and associates like you. At a 100% offer rate v10 firm, it's probably not even about work product - the criteria seems to be "don't end up on ATL or anger an important partner."

KidStuddi
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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby KidStuddi » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mvp99 wrote:does your firm even asks for your transcript at the end of the summer? some don't care enough to ask

My v5 had us sign over that they can pull our transcripts whenever they want back in the Fall.


I've never even heard of this before. You should go ahead and out the firm, IMO. That's pretty good intel on grade sensitivity that might actually impact someone's decision in a non-specious way.

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:13 pm

KidStuddi wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
mvp99 wrote:does your firm even asks for your transcript at the end of the summer? some don't care enough to ask

My v5 had us sign over that they can pull our transcripts whenever they want back in the Fall.


I've never even heard of this before. You should go ahead and out the firm, IMO. That's pretty good intel on grade sensitivity that might actually impact someone's decision in a non-specious way.


I think my firm did this but I can't remember. I thought that was par for the course that you signed a release for them?

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Re: Grade drop to no offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mvp99 wrote:does your firm even asks for your transcript at the end of the summer? some don't care enough to ask

My v5 had us sign over that they can pull our transcripts whenever they want back in the Fall.

+1




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