NY v. Texas

[Ken Kesey]

With Texas's low COL and same starting salary, is the draw of NY only prestige? Since most associates won't make partner, the prospect of only higher partner salaries wouldn't be worth it for most.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Nomo]

New York is the largest market. It doesn't really care about ties. Because its so large it can't require GPA's as high as Chicago, DC, or California. Those are big reasons to go after NY.

Most people who want to live in Texas and have Texas ties will go after Texas. But its just not an option for the majority of students.

[rahulg91]

I've heard a lot about salary compression and still have no idea what it means. I think bonuses are less in TX but yeah other than those factors it seems like a solid market if you can make it.

[dixiecupdrinking]

It's also, you know, halfway across the country and Dallas/Houston are about as different from NYC as a city could be. That matters to some.

[2014]

Yeah I mean the difference is the lifestyle more than the money. Better corporate work in NY in most areas too but that wont matter to someone who wants to go to and stay in Texas.

[BeenDidThat]

It's also, you know, halfway across the country and Dallas/Houston are about as different from NYC as a city could be. That matters to some.

Maybe as different as an American city could be. Dallas/Houston are a lot more like New York than they are, say, Mombasa or Beijing.

[dixiecupdrinking]

It's also, you know, halfway across the country and Dallas/Houston are about as different from NYC as a city could be. That matters to some.

Maybe as different as an American city could be. Dallas/Houston are a lot more like New York than they are, say, Mombasa or Beijing.

Great point!

[2014]

It's also, you know, halfway across the country and Dallas/Houston are about as different from NYC as a city could be. That matters to some.

Maybe as different as an American city could be. Dallas/Houston are a lot more like New York than they are, say, Mombasa or Beijing.

Really crushed it on the issue spotting with this one

[Anonymous User]

Much easier to go from NY to other places than from TX. NY is way more expensive. But I don't think that people consider the fact that, at most TX firms, an associate isn't taking home a market bonus at 2000 hours. You definitely can get more money for less work in NY.

[Anonymous User]

^^lol

As someone who has worked in both TX and NY biglaw, I think there is a big difference in culture as well. TX biglaw is a lot less demanding, IME. In NY biglaw, it was more or less assumed I would be working weekends unless I really had nothing to do. In TX, people let you know if you need to work on the weekends, and it only happens about once every month or two (though sometimes I put in a few hours here and there on a Sunday just to save myself work on Monday). However, the flip side is that the social life in TX isn't nearly the same either. Most people just work and go home to their families. Not nearly as much drinking, etc. I also wouldn't say the deal work is any worse in TX than it is in NY...just different. NY is a lot of work w/ financial institutions, whereas TX involves more company-side deals. I would actually say that I have learned more useful skills in TX than I did in NY.

[Ken Kesey]

^^lol

As someone who has worked in both TX and NY biglaw, I think there is a big difference in culture as well. TX biglaw is a lot less demanding, IME. In NY biglaw, it was more or less assumed I would be working weekends unless I really had nothing to do. In TX, people let you know if you need to work on the weekends, and it only happens about once every month or two (though sometimes I put in a few hours here and there on a Sunday just to save myself work on Monday). However, the flip side is that the social life in TX isn't nearly the same either. Most people just work and go home to their families. Not nearly as much drinking, etc. I also wouldn't say the deal work is any worse in TX than it is in NY...just different. NY is a lot of work w/ financial institutions, whereas TX involves more company-side deals. I would actually say that I have learned more useful skills in TX than I did in NY.

Thanks for the insight. For me I think I'd rather live and work in TX.

[CanadianWolf]

Great thread. Interesting posts. Have to offer a comment on the social life, however. If you're single, there's a lot of options in both Dallas & Houston. Plus, there is no shortage of very attractive folks. So don't base your decision on a misperception that social life is depressed in either city. But the heat & humidity of Houston & the scorching heat of Dallas are factors to consider. Also, east coast is a lot more liberable than even the largest Texas cities.

[catinthewall]

Texans pronounce "voir dire" very differently. They say it like "For dire," except the English pronunciation of the word "dire," with a hard "i." It's really weird.

[BVest]

Texans pronounce "voir dire" very differently. They say it like "For vor dire," except the English pronunciation of the word "dire," with a hard "i." It's really weird.

vor dyer (rhymes with for sire)

[Anonymous User]

^^lol

As someone who has worked in both TX and NY biglaw, I think there is a big difference in culture as well. TX biglaw is a lot less demanding, IME. In NY biglaw, it was more or less assumed I would be working weekends unless I really had nothing to do. In TX, people let you know if you need to work on the weekends, and it only happens about once every month or two (though sometimes I put in a few hours here and there on a Sunday just to save myself work on Monday). However, the flip side is that the social life in TX isn't nearly the same either. Most people just work and go home to their families. Not nearly as much drinking, etc. I also wouldn't say the deal work is any worse in TX than it is in NY...just different. NY is a lot of work w/ financial institutions, whereas TX involves more company-side deals. I would actually say that I have learned more useful skills in TX than I did in NY.

I was the above anon, and I respect that you've worked both, but are you saying that a third-year associate in TX who bills 1950 hours will take home the same amount of nominal dollars as a third-year NY associate who bills 1950 hours? Everything I've seen indicates it would not even be close. That's not talking about buying power, and that's not saying that you can typically coast like that in NY, but I am trying to say that there's an advantage to lockstep firms.

[chuckbass]

If you have to ask why people choose to live in NYC, then you don't belong in NYC.

[Anonymous User]

^^lol

As someone who has worked in both TX and NY biglaw, I think there is a big difference in culture as well. TX biglaw is a lot less demanding, IME. In NY biglaw, it was more or less assumed I would be working weekends unless I really had nothing to do. In TX, people let you know if you need to work on the weekends, and it only happens about once every month or two (though sometimes I put in a few hours here and there on a Sunday just to save myself work on Monday). However, the flip side is that the social life in TX isn't nearly the same either. Most people just work and go home to their families. Not nearly as much drinking, etc. I also wouldn't say the deal work is any worse in TX than it is in NY...just different. NY is a lot of work w/ financial institutions, whereas TX involves more company-side deals. I would actually say that I have learned more useful skills in TX than I did in NY.

I was the above anon, and I respect that you've worked both, but are you saying that a third-year associate in TX who bills 1950 hours will take home the same amount of nominal dollars as a third-year NY associate who bills 1950 hours? Everything I've seen indicates it would not even be close. That's not talking about buying power, and that's not saying that you can typically coast like that in NY, but I am trying to say that there's an advantage to lockstep firms.

Yeah I mean if you don't hit your hours, then you're kind of screwed. But, I had no problem billing low 2000s last year and got the same bonus as my old NY firm. I mean, I would say that in terms of compensation, TX is a pretty clear winner.

Ignoring buying power is kind of ridiculous. If you want to talk about compensation, you need to consider all the factors. At the end of the day, all things considered, TX biglaw is a better deal financially. This is especially true if you have kids and/or want to buy a place.

ETA: the "lol" in my original post was directed at the person above you comparing NY to random int'l cities. Which was a...kind of irrelevant post

[Anonymous User]

I had offers from firms in both markets and I chose NYC for a various reasons. One of them was preftige. I'm simply playing the game. The other reason was that Texas' legal and economic boom wouldn't last forever and it depended too much on a single factor (oil prices). I had other reasons but those are mainly personal and irrelevant to this thread.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah I mean if you don't hit your hours, then you're kind of screwed. But, I had no problem billing low 2000s last year and got the same bonus as my old NY firm. I mean, I would say that in terms of compensation, TX is a pretty clear winner.

Ignoring buying power is kind of ridiculous. If you want to talk about compensation, you need to consider all the factors. At the end of the day, all things considered, TX biglaw is a better deal financially. This is especially true if you have kids and/or want to buy a place.

ETA: the "lol" in my original post was directed at the person above you comparing NY to random int'l cities. Which was a...kind of irrelevant post

Oh okay, haha I definitely thought it was directed at my post. Thank you very much for the feedback. I completely agree that TX is better in terms of compensation.

Yeah, of course you have to take buying power into account. Housing is most people's top expense and that fluctuates dramatically by region. One reason I brought it up is because some people forget that things like vacations and retirement savings are basically exclusively determined by nominal dollars so cost of living isn't the be all end all. As you said though, buying power is the main factor because of housing, consumer costs, schools if you have kids, etc.

[Anonymous User]

I had offers from firms in both markets and I chose NYC for a various reasons. One of them was preftige. I'm simply playing the game. The other reason was that Texas' legal and economic boom wouldn't last forever and it depended too much on a single factor (oil prices). I had other reasons but those are mainly personal and irrelevant to this thread.

Yeah, I'm interested in switching from TX to NYC because I think TX is going to go down the tubes. I don't think it's really because of oil prices, it's more that the state can't learn to invest in itself during the good times. That means that the schools and infrastructure are destroyed. Plus, it's mostly a shell game where they use tax breaks to recruit businesses at a what is generally a net loss.

[Anonymous User]

NY/TX associate again

One last piece of advice re: TX and biglaw/OCI/recruiting. When I went through OCI, a lot of the TX firms kind of ragged on NY firms and told me they like training their own lawyers, etc (essentially tried to give the impression that they don't like laterals from NY). I went to NY anyways, and when I wanted to come back all those doors were open (in fact I'm working at a firm I interviewed with as a 2L). If you do go to NY, you will most likely be able to get back to TX if you could have gotten TX to begin with (i.e., if you have ties). Just wanted to point that out b/c it is one of the bullshit things I heard during recruiting.

[AreJay711]

NYC is more fun. Texas is more money after taxes and housing. When I had a long term SO, I wanted Texas, now I'm doing everything I can to get to NYC.

[Ken Kesey]

If you have to ask why people choose to live in NYC, then you don't belong in NYC.

pretentious asshole much?

[chuckbass]

If you have to ask why people choose to live in NYC, then you don't belong in NYC.

pretentious asshole much?

Sure, but that doesn't change whether what I said is true or not.

It's very hard to rationalize living in NYC over anywhere else, so if you have to ask, it's probably not the place for you.

[mr.hands]

If you have to ask why people choose to live in NYC, then you don't belong in NYC.

pretentious asshole much?

Sure, but that doesn't change whether what I said is true or not.

It's very hard to rationalize living in NYC over anywhere else, so if you have to ask, it's probably not the place for you.

Yeah it's hard to rationalize once you realize (a) the hours are absurd compared to other markets (like Dallas) and (b) your purchasing power isn't even close to that in TX markets,Atlanta, or other secondary markets across the country

People who go to NYC seen to assume that everyone else wants to be there. I'm not sure why...