Philadelphia Market

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:27 pm

smiles123 wrote:Do people coming from regional schools(Temple, Villanova, Drexel) have an edge over lower T14 graduates in the Philly market?


Drexel? No, Drexel does not have an advantage over Duke or Cornell, even in Philly. Drexel is sort of a joke.

To be clear, Temple and Nova grads aren't dying for jobs. In my experience, Temple is the better choice of the two, but they both have a decent shot to land people jobs. But when we are talking about biglaw, its sort of a different story. Also, saying people from any T14 will have "no trouble" getting biglaw in Philly is laughable. If you have good stats, sure. If you go to Penn, or HYS, sure. But folks that are bottom of the barrel at Gtown aren't going to have "no trouble" at finding biglaw in Philly.

The Philly market is not good by any means, and this is according to multiple partners at biglaw firms in the city (love it when boomers actually know whats happening instead of thinking mass mailing gets everyone 6 figures). In my experience, the Philly market was very difficult to crack for any job, let alone biglaw (Pitt, somewhere around top 25% grades, journal + mootcourt + firm experience). That said, what are we comparing to? I wouldn't say Philly is any better or worse than Chicago. I don't have any experience with the Atlanta market, but it sounds even worse than Philly. Idk, I would say overall the NY market is better than Philly, but again, there isn't some magical market that is "good" anywhere. Its all relative and highly depends on what you're comparing to.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby BarbellDreams » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:30 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Is the Philadelphia public interest market as much of a dumpster fire as the firm scene? Unfortunately, because of health reasons I am limited in my job search to southeastern PA.

Also, what's the going rate for Philly doc review?


DR ranges from $24-30 for English doc review. I've seen as high as $120/hr. for hard to find language doc review (Portugese and Japanese). I did the math and if there was any sort of consistency in foreign language doc review like that I think many people wouldn't want to work any other job. 2 months of that, without overtime, is almost 40K. At that point if you have a lull you can go on a month long European vacation and come back with plenty of cash left over until the next project.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Holly Golightly » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:35 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
Poopface wrote:if you grew up in the philly area and are in law school at any t14, you will have no trouble getting a big law philly offer. If you are at a local t2 regional, you have to be top 10% in the class to get an interview with a philly biglaw firm.


How about T30 with ties?

And what will schools think if I went to a T30 but don't list it on my resume because the school was evil and made me mentally unstable?

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BlueLotus
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:55 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
Poopface wrote:if you grew up in the philly area and are in law school at any t14, you will have no trouble getting a big law philly offer. If you are at a local t2 regional, you have to be top 10% in the class to get an interview with a philly biglaw firm.


How about T30 with ties?

And what will schools think if I went to a T30 but don't list it on my resume because the school was evil and made me mentally unstable?


I consider it a public service to discourage students from financially ruining themselves by taking out $300,000 in nondischargeable debt for a school that will give them an infinitesimal chance of fulfilling their professional goals.

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ronanOgara
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby ronanOgara » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:03 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
smiles123 wrote:Do people coming from regional schools(Temple, Villanova, Drexel) have an edge over lower T14 graduates in the Philly market?


Drexel? No, Drexel does not have an advantage over Duke or Cornell, even in Philly. Drexel is sort of a joke.

To be clear, Temple and Nova grads aren't dying for jobs. In my experience, Temple is the better choice of the two, but they both have a decent shot to land people jobs. But when we are talking about biglaw, its sort of a different story. Also, saying people from any T14 will have "no trouble" getting biglaw in Philly is laughable. If you have good stats, sure. If you go to Penn, or HYS, sure. But folks that are bottom of the barrel at Gtown aren't going to have "no trouble" at finding biglaw in Philly.

The Philly market is not good by any means, and this is according to multiple partners at biglaw firms in the city (love it when boomers actually know whats happening instead of thinking mass mailing gets everyone 6 figures). In my experience, the Philly market was very difficult to crack for any job, let alone biglaw (Pitt, somewhere around top 25% grades, journal + mootcourt + firm experience). That said, what are we comparing to? I wouldn't say Philly is any better or worse than Chicago. I don't have any experience with the Atlanta market, but it sounds even worse than Philly. Idk, I would say overall the NY market is better than Philly, but again, there isn't some magical market that is "good" anywhere. Its all relative and highly depends on what you're comparing to.


Temple, Nova, and Drexel are all terrible options if you want big law. All 3 of their biglaw rates on LST are hovering around 10% Philly is also the most incestuous city when it comes to ties.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Holly Golightly » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:15 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
Poopface wrote:if you grew up in the philly area and are in law school at any t14, you will have no trouble getting a big law philly offer. If you are at a local t2 regional, you have to be top 10% in the class to get an interview with a philly biglaw firm.


How about T30 with ties?

And what will schools think if I went to a T30 but don't list it on my resume because the school was evil and made me mentally unstable?


I consider it a public service to discourage students from financially ruining themselves by taking out $300,000 in nondischargeable debt for a school that will give them an infinitesimal chance of fulfilling their professional goals.

Huh?

071816
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby 071816 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:17 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
Holly Golightly wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
Poopface wrote:if you grew up in the philly area and are in law school at any t14, you will have no trouble getting a big law philly offer. If you are at a local t2 regional, you have to be top 10% in the class to get an interview with a philly biglaw firm.


How about T30 with ties?

And what will schools think if I went to a T30 but don't list it on my resume because the school was evil and made me mentally unstable?


I consider it a public service to discourage students from financially ruining themselves by taking out $300,000 in nondischargeable debt for a school that will give them an infinitesimal chance of fulfilling their professional goals.

you been smokin dust?

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twenty 8
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby twenty 8 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:38 am

A couple months ago we hired a Penn grad who came from a Philly firm. She said the legal market was busy (she had no Philly ties and received 3 firm offers). Firm and pay were good (I think she said 135k) and while Philly was expensive it was not NYC expensive. She said she liked the firm and the market but simply became totally fed up with the cold.

framboozer
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby framboozer » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:32 am

smiles123 wrote:Do people coming from regional schools(Temple, Villanova, Drexel) have an edge over lower T14 graduates in the Philly market?


No, not if we're talking relatively equal ties and the T14 student's grades are at least OK and not abysmal. The main takeaway is that the Philly market does not distinguish between "upper T14" and "lower T14." DO NOT go to the local Philly schools because you think it will give you any kind of advantage. You need to be near the top of your class to get any kind of look from a Philly biglaw firm coming from a regional school, whereas if you come from a T14, you can do that at median or even below (though the lower the GPA, the more you need to compensate with other factors). I'll add in a sidenote that considering Georgetown's shitty biglaw placement, I don't know that you could snag Philly biglaw from at or below median at Georgetown, but from my lower T14 you can if you have good ties. Basically, don't go to Georgetown at sticker if you want Philly biglaw, or anywhere at sticker for that matter.

Ties means being from Philly, the Philly suburbs, South Jersey, and probably from Eastern PA if you sell yourself as wanting dat city life. From speaking to others, going to undergrad in the Philly area (Swarthmore, Villanova, Penn, etc.) counts as well, but it's all about how you sell it. I think having a spouse, fiance, or serious partner who is from the Philly area and has all of their family there can be a sufficient tie if you similarly sell it right. Philly firms don't want to hear that Philly is only an option and not your goal. Working in Philly your 1L summer will help and it will oddly give you an advantage if you go to a non-Philly area school. I got a few interviews at firms before I left to go to my school for OCI. These interviews were straight to callback, no screener. However, Philly firms aren't as quick about giving out offers because they have far fewer to give. I received my offers ~two weeks after the interviews.

I don't think anyone going to Drexel in particular has any kind of advantage over anyone considering there are 4 schools in the area that are better and more firmly established. There will be no Drexel partners gunning for you. Drexel seems like an objectively bad gamble.

Edit: This should be obvious, but I want to be clear that I'm not saying that Philly Biglaw is guaranteed at or below median at any T14, just that it's not a foregone conclusion like it is when you're not at the top of your Philly regional. Philadelphia is not a huge market and doesn't have that many spots to go around so it can't exactly be guaranteed for anyone.

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eriedoctrine
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby eriedoctrine » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:57 am


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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:32 pm

Any idea how a T20 student with good grades and ties (went to Temple UG) would do? I plan on mass mailing every Philly firm this summer and very much want to end up in Philly.

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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:35 pm

T20 like Minnesota or T20 like Vandy? The latter has actual name recognition for one.

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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:T20 like Minnesota or T20 like Vandy? The latter has actual name recognition for one.

T20 as in WUSTL.

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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:T20 like Minnesota or T20 like Vandy? The latter has actual name recognition for one.

T20 as in WUSTL.


Define having good grades. I don't think WUSTL will have much of an advantage over the local schools.

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OutCold
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby OutCold » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:27 pm

Already been said, but DO NOT apply to Philly without Philly ties. Even coming out of Penn, most firms will assume you will reject any offer they might hand out in order to run off to NYC. Ties are essential. Jersey ties will do the trick too if you sell them correctly.

The local law schools will not give you an advantage. They place maybe one or two people at the larger Philly firms each year. If you aren't seeking a biglaw position, Temple does fairly well with local government positions, especially with the DA's office. That being said, they don't place enough to warrant choosing it without a significant scholarship (ie. full ride). Most people I know who graduated from the local law schools did so without any job in hand.

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Broncos847
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Broncos847 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:37 pm

Can anyone speak to how Cornell does in Philly BigLaw? I currently live in Philly with my parents, grew up in Jersey. I kinda figured when Penn wait listed me my Philly dreams were dashed, but ITT people are saying good grades from a lower T14 with ties would give someone a good shot. Philly BigLaw would be ideal for me because it's so much cheaper than Manhattan.

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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:42 am

Broncos847 wrote:Can anyone speak to how Cornell does in Philly BigLaw? I currently live in Philly with my parents, grew up in Jersey. I kinda figured when Penn wait listed me my Philly dreams were dashed, but ITT people are saying good grades from a lower T14 with ties would give someone a good shot. Philly BigLaw would be ideal for me because it's so much cheaper than Manhattan.


Cornell with good grades should do fine in Philly BigLaw as long as, like you said, you make them know you really want Philly, emphasize that you lived there before law school, your family is there, that you grew up in the area across the river, and that you really don't want to go to New York. Are you a 1L or a 0L right now? I highly recommend working in Philly your 1L summer if you don't already have those plans locked down. While you're there, email Cornell alums at the Philly firms to get information about the firm and demonstrate your interest. When I contacted alums from my school it wasn't about asking if they could put in a good word for me. I just wanted to get an insider's perspective on the firm to see if it seemed like a good fit for me, but most importantly so that I could get information that I good use in the interviews to demonstrate my interest. Then the fact that you were already in Philly for the summer and would have to go back to Cornell for OCI would likely get you some pre-OCI interviews, particularly with firms that don't actively recruit at Cornell.

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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:01 pm

What are good firms for students at Penn with sps grades and weak or no ties to Philly? Am spending 1L summer in Philly.

aep11
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby aep11 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:09 pm

http://www.thelegalintelligencer.com/ho ... curindex=0

Dechert to 160,000 in Philly and Princeton

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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:25 pm

Will Morgan Lewis follow suit? If so could push up other firms like Pepper/Drinker/Duane Morris to match. Wouldn't be long until the ripple effect of NYC to $175-$190

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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Will Morgan Lewis follow suit? If so could push up other firms like Pepper/Drinker/Duane Morris to match. Wouldn't be long until the ripple effect of NYC to $175-$190


Not necessarily - much cheaper markets than NYC or SF have long been paying 160k and NY scale bonuses, e.g. Houston, Charlotte, LA, some Boston firms, Chicago, etc. Philly was just a smaller revenue generator for Philly-elite firms like Dechert and DM so they didn't have to raise salaries until now to maintain elite market position. But that doesn't mean any firm in NY or with offices there feels any different.

They won't be pushed to make strategic changes until enough students make the decision on the margin to go to Dechert Philly rather than Paul Weis or Skadden NY, which I don't see happening on it's own just from this, given the limited nature of the change (only 1 firm so far) and the fact that plenty of other, even cheaper markets already had paid 160k without the NY effect change.

Internal and other market forces will have to drive NY increase that is, frankly, long overdue for the suckers who chose to live there.

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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Will Morgan Lewis follow suit? If so could push up other firms like Pepper/Drinker/Duane Morris to match. Wouldn't be long until the ripple effect of NYC to $175-$190


I have a friend who works at DBR and he/she indicated they were already contemplating an increase anyway. Seems likely that they will increase with the incoming class.

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DELG
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby DELG » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Will Morgan Lewis follow suit? If so could push up other firms like Pepper/Drinker/Duane Morris to match. Wouldn't be long until the ripple effect of NYC to $175-$190

i seriously doubt there is a "ripple effect" of firms downstream pressuring STB/DPW/Cravath up

aep11
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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby aep11 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:18 pm

Likely that MLB and probably DM will match.

Interesting to see if Blank/Pepper/Ballard/Drinker move at all before recruiting season starts.

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Re: Philadelphia Market

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:16 pm

Any salary movement from Philly firms? According to NALP, at least one other firm has raised salaries: Baker Hostetler is up to 150k in Philly. http://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_p ... hCondJSON=. Curious if MLB or DM have done anything yet.




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