Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

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Desert Fox
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:09 pm

You come off as crazy even over the interwebs. Chill out.

BearLaw
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby BearLaw » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:11 pm

mmelittlechicken wrote:You should leave the school alone and stop posting personal information on the internet.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:13 pm

I'm just trying to figure out how to properly present evidence/witnesses to the school concerning my treatment and stability.

Should I bring up the PTSD thing to my psychiatrist?

BearLaw
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby BearLaw » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:No one here can answer these questions for you.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:24 pm

BearLaw wrote:
mmelittlechicken wrote:You should leave the school alone and stop posting personal information on the internet.


I can't leave the school alone. They asked me for information regarding my treatment, so I am just figuring out what information to present and how to go about doing that. Should I consult an attorney?

BearLaw
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby BearLaw » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:31 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:
BearLaw wrote:
mmelittlechicken wrote:You should leave the school alone and stop posting personal information on the internet.


I can't leave the school alone. They asked me for information regarding my treatment, so I am just figuring out what information to present and how to go about doing that. Should I consult an attorney?


1. you never once prior to this indicated that the school has requested info on treatment. It sounded like they laid out a plan, and your burden was to follow it. An affirmative request is slightly differnt.

2. Then send them information regarding your treatment. A friend or professor, or someone from work isnt infomration regarding your treatment.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:38 pm

BearLaw wrote:
Honeysuckle wrote:
BearLaw wrote:
mmelittlechicken wrote:You should leave the school alone and stop posting personal information on the internet.


I can't leave the school alone. They asked me for information regarding my treatment, so I am just figuring out what information to present and how to go about doing that. Should I consult an attorney?


1. you never once prior to this indicated that the school has requested info on treatment. It sounded like they laid out a plan, and your burden was to follow it. An affirmative request is slightly differnt.

2. Then send them information regarding your treatment. A friend or professor, or someone from work isnt infomration regarding your treatment.


The school in a letter in October said that they wanted my treatment providers to submit reports to the director of University Counseling Services, who will then make a recommendation to the Dean. Then I have to petition the Academic Standards Committee for readmission.

The letters/phonecalls from the professor, alum, and employer can only help right? The fact that I have successfully engaged in gainful employment during the period of withdrawal shows my mental stability. The friend and the alum have interacted with me during the period of the withdrawal and can similarly attest that I am stable. That's what I'm trying to convey to the school. Stability.

I'm just worried about disclosing the sexual abuse to my psychiatrist. He might diagnose me with PTSD and I am not sure how the school will react to that in addition to bipolar (not even sure if it's I or II at this point). My aunt who is a psychiatrist says that difficulty with and hostility towards authority figures is a symptom of PTSD.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:50 pm

Follow the school's directions and submit the reports from your treatment providers. Also follow whatever directions they have for petitioning for readmission. Don't send them things they don't ask for. Don't send them info from people like friends and family members who have a motive to lie to help you, unless specifically requested. If the directions for the petition are unclear, ask your school what specifically they want to see.

Personally, if someone with medical training believed that I had PTSD, yes, I would bring that up with my doctors. They might disagree, or it might be helpful. But avoiding diagnoses because you worry that they might look bad to your school doesn't seem like a good way to get healthy, if you actually would benefit from treatment for PTSD. I also think past sexual abuse would absolutely be relevant to psychological health so again, if it were me and I wanted to get healthy, I would absolutely tell my doctor. (I get that it's probably painful to do, but whether it will make getting into law school again harder shouldn't be the thing to consider.)

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:58 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Follow the school's directions and submit the reports from your treatment providers. Also follow whatever directions they have for petitioning for readmission. Don't send them things they don't ask for. Don't send them info from people like friends and family members who have a motive to lie to help you, unless specifically requested. If the directions for the petition are unclear, ask your school what specifically they want to see.

Personally, if someone with medical training believed that I had PTSD, yes, I would bring that up with my doctors. They might disagree, or it might be helpful. But avoiding diagnoses because you worry that they might look bad to your school doesn't seem like a good way to get healthy, if you actually would benefit from treatment for PTSD. I also think past sexual abuse would absolutely be relevant to psychological health so again, if it were me and I wanted to get healthy, I would absolutely tell my doctor. (I get that it's probably painful to do, but whether it will make getting into law school again harder shouldn't be the thing to consider.)


I'll definitely submit the supplemental things (phone calls/letters of support from friend/alum/professor/employer, etc.) anyway, under the pretense that it simply cannot hurt and can only help to show my stability. My psychiatrist aunt intervened in a similar situation with a cousin (who had his entire first year grades at undergrad nullified--now he's headed to GULC), so I trust her judgement to go to bat for me as well.

I just worried that a diagnosis for Bipolar AND PTSD is going to look bad to the school, given the stigma against both these illnesses. That's why I'm concerned about telling my psychiatrist my aunt's opinion about my diagnosis.

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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:04 pm

didn't the school give you a cease and desist letter or threaten one? just follow the order. you are 4-5 months from submitting this stuff. please chill. im the same "brave anon". i'm anon because my identity is traceable from my profile, and i want to both live, and pray you heed my advice. your dean just wants you to chill. no way your mpre score matters one iota. my knowledge is limited but i have some background in mental health. your behavior seems more bipolar i. i thought bipolar ii was just hypomania, and your conduct seems pretty manic.

i think the past sexual abuse would probably be helpful. lawyers don't know much about psychology beyond "that's crazy." it makes you sympathetic versus scary.

all the school really seems to want is for you to not pose a risk to anyone's health or property. i understand that's unreasonable of them but such is the situation.

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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:didn't the school give you a cease and desist letter or threaten one? just follow the order. you are 4-5 months from submitting this stuff. please chill. im the same "brave anon". i'm anon because my identity is traceable from my profile, and i want to both live, and pray you heed my advice. your dean just wants you to chill. no way your mpre score matters one iota. my knowledge is limited but i have some background in mental health. your behavior seems more bipolar i. i thought bipolar ii was just hypomania, and your conduct seems pretty manic.


No, I did not receive a cease and desist letter; it was a stay away order which has since lifted for all but two individuals. (I guess it technically no longer exists since I am not a student, but whatever)

I'm going to submit the score report (if I pass, obviously) along with my petition for readmission with the other supplementary materials I mentioned. Again, it can't hurt and can only help.

My psychotherapist thinks I have Bipolar I, but my psychiatrist diagnosed me with Bipolar II. Should I tell my psychiatrist that my psychotherapist thinks differently about my diagnosis? Will the school look down more on a diagnosis of Bipolar I?

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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:21 pm

you had mentioned something else following records requests just a week ago? they failed to comply and you were calling and they told you to stop or theyd press charges?

id absolutely tell your therapist. idk what the school would do. i had some childhood trauma myself, nothing close what you seem to have gone through but some. she felt i may have veey mild ptsd from it but after talking to my c&f lawyer said i didn't have it so i feel there may be fallout to any diagnosis.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:you had mentioned something else following records requests just a week ago? they failed to comply and you were calling and they told you to stop or theyd press charges?


I never received a cease and desist letter from the school.

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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:25 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:you had mentioned something else following records requests just a week ago? they failed to comply and you were calling and they told you to stop or theyd press charges?


I never received a cease and desist letter from the school.

you said you were calling 2-3 a day amd they said if you didnt stop theyd file charges? i just dont get why youd start up again a week later. youre making it harder to get back in.

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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Honeysuckle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:you had mentioned something else following records requests just a week ago? they failed to comply and you were calling and they told you to stop or theyd press charges?


I never received a cease and desist letter from the school.

you said you were calling 2-3 a day amd they said if you didnt stop theyd file charges? i just dont get why youd start up again a week later. youre making it harder to get back in.


I was not sent a cease and desist letter or threatened with filing charges. End of story.

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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:35 pm

You said otherwise here: http://jdunderground.com/ot/thread.php? ... ost1181929

I'm not doing this to embarrass you in any way, merely to help give you and help others give you the best advice relative to your situation. To the extent one believes you weren't lying/delusional when you created this thread, they would say it's absolutely suicidal for you to contact the school at all.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You said otherwise here: http://jdunderground.com/ot/thread.php? ... ost1181929

I'm not doing this to embarrass you in any way, merely to help give you and help others give you the best advice relative to your situation. To the extent one believes you weren't lying/delusional when you created this thread, they would say it's absolutely suicidal for you to contact the school at all.


I was threatened with a cease and desist letter. I was never actually sent one. The Dean was trolling me.

I *have* to contact the school at some point (i.e. submit the evals, etc.) if I want to be readmitted.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:you had mentioned something else following records requests just a week ago? they failed to comply and you were calling and they told you to stop or theyd press charges?

id absolutely tell your therapist. idk what the school would do. i had some childhood trauma myself, nothing close what you seem to have gone through but some. she felt i may have veey mild ptsd from it but after talking to my c&f lawyer said i didn't have it so i feel there may be fallout to any diagnosis.


If a PTSD diagnosis will make me look more sympathetic to the school, then yes, I will absolutely disclose the sexual abuse to my psychiatrist.

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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby mmelittlechicken » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:33 pm

how has this not been mercy locked?

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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:45 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You said otherwise here: http://jdunderground.com/ot/thread.php? ... ost1181929

I'm not doing this to embarrass you in any way, merely to help give you and help others give you the best advice relative to your situation. To the extent one believes you weren't lying/delusional when you created this thread, they would say it's absolutely suicidal for you to contact the school at all.


I was threatened with a cease and desist letter. I was never actually sent one. The Dean was trolling me.

I *have* to contact the school at some point (i.e. submit the evals, etc.) if I want to be readmitted.

Same anon.

I'm not your psychotherapist and don't know much about bipolar, but I have a brain. Anyone with a brain would tell you that you are obsessive. I can assure you the dean, a man making >300k a year with a wife, children and respect in the legal community didn't wake up one day, and say I'm going to try to troll this girl for the sake of intimidating her. How would this possibly benefit him? Did you bang his wife? Why would he hate you? If you continue down this road what's gonna happen is you won't be allowed in, you're gonna try to file a lawsuit and lose, and you're going to become deeply depressed. All you have to do is not do ridiculous stuff.

Where are your parents in all this? Someone? Anyone who can save you from yourself? I'm washing my hands with this because it's just the same cycle over and over. If you can't see how having random college friends call the dean and mailing your MPRE score are at best annoyances and at worst stalking then how in god's name can you ever advise a client of anything?

Also, you can apprise your therapist of the risks involved in getting any additional diagnosis. Sexual abuse is a pretty major thing that would have shaped your whole development if it happened as a child. IDK how you could have effective therapy without disclosing you were sexually abused if you were in fact sexually abused.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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encore1101
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby encore1101 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:03 pm

http://imgur.com/gallery/53SA7


are you one of these?

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Honeysuckle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You said otherwise here: http://jdunderground.com/ot/thread.php? ... ost1181929

I'm not doing this to embarrass you in any way, merely to help give you and help others give you the best advice relative to your situation. To the extent one believes you weren't lying/delusional when you created this thread, they would say it's absolutely suicidal for you to contact the school at all.


I was threatened with a cease and desist letter. I was never actually sent one. The Dean was trolling me.

I *have* to contact the school at some point (i.e. submit the evals, etc.) if I want to be readmitted.

Same anon.

I'm not your psychotherapist and don't know much about bipolar, but I have a brain. Anyone with a brain would tell you that you are obsessive. I can assure you the dean, a man making >300k a year with a wife, children and respect in the legal community didn't wake up one day, and say I'm going to try to troll this girl for the sake of intimidating her. How would this possibly benefit him? Did you bang his wife? Why would he hate you? If you continue down this road what's gonna happen is you won't be allowed in, you're gonna try to file a lawsuit and lose, and you're going to become deeply depressed. All you have to do is not do ridiculous stuff.

Where are your parents in all this? Someone? Anyone who can save you from yourself? I'm washing my hands with this because it's just the same cycle over and over. If you can't see how having random college friends call the dean and mailing your MPRE score are at best annoyances and at worst stalking then how in god's name can you ever advise a client of anything?

Also, you can apprise your therapist of the risks involved in getting any additional diagnosis. Sexual abuse is a pretty major thing that would have shaped your whole development if it happened as a child. IDK how you could have effective therapy without disclosing you were sexually abused if you were in fact sexually abused.


The MPRE pass is evidence I am stable. So is the personal reference from the friend who has interacted with me during the period of my withdrawal. Same with the letter of support from the professor, employer, etc.

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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:18 pm

encore1101 wrote:http://imgur.com/gallery/53SA7


are you one of these?

Same anon.

Bullying the girl with a mental illness going through a very tough time isn't a good look. Removing the illness from it, if you were kicked out of law school after paying 2 yrs of tuition and hadn't even cheated or did something objectively "bad" that you knew was "bad" when you did it, you'd be pretty depressed. Then add in the fact you discovered you had a potentially debilitating mental illness in the process.

We can all agree she needs help and that the obsessiveness is irritating, but there's no reason to make a joke out of it. There are plenty of other people to bully.

HoneySuckle: The MPRE and your bipolar have little overlap. I have worked with individuals who had such profound mental illness they couldn't focus enough to read a single page over 4 hours. Nobody is saying you're batshit think you're a drummer in The Who crazy. They think if you go to school you're a not 0% liability to hurt somebody when you want to be 0%. The MPRE has nothing to do with that. Not one iota. I'm sure Ted Bundy could've passed the MPRE, but he probably wouldn't have been allowed back in law school. One has nothing to do with the other.

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encore1101
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby encore1101 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:
encore1101 wrote:http://imgur.com/gallery/53SA7


are you one of these?

Same anon.

Bullying the girl with a mental illness going through a very tough time isn't a good look. Removing the illness from it, if you were kicked out of law school after paying 2 yrs of tuition and hadn't even cheated or did something objectively "bad" that you knew was "bad" when you did it, you'd be pretty depressed. Then add in the fact you discovered you had a potentially debilitating mental illness in the process.

We can all agree she needs help and that the obsessiveness is irritating, but there's no reason to make a joke out of it. There are plenty of other people to bully.

HoneySuckle: The MPRE and your bipolar have little overlap. I have worked with individuals who had such profound mental illness they couldn't focus enough to read a single page over 4 hours. Nobody is saying you're batshit think you're a drummer in The Who crazy. They think if you go to school you're a not 0% liability to hurt somebody when you want to be 0%. The MPRE has nothing to do with that. Not one iota. I'm sure Ted Bundy could've passed the MPRE, but he probably wouldn't have been allowed back in law school. One has nothing to do with the other.


You're right; I apologize. Next time, I'll keep it classy and just compare OP to Ted Bundy.

It was said at the beginning of the thread, but I don't think there's anyone on these forums that has enough anecdotal knowledge to give you meaningful advice, and so you should seriously consider retaining an attorney who specializes in this. It is quite unique, and far different from the usual "Will my traffic ticket preclude my bar admission!?" type questions that TLS typically gets.

That being said, anon user's holier-than-thou attitude aside, I do agree with his point, that the best thing to do right now is to not contact the school (unless you have some deadlines coming up so that you absolutely have to, but it sounds like you have a few months). The best way to show rehabilitation is not by getting all these doctors's notes and passing some non-related test; the best way to show rehabilitation is showing that you've actually been rehabilitated by not acting obsessively.

You should also consider whether it'd be in your best interests to just wait for a year or so, before resuming your legal education. I know you said you're on treatment, but just judging by this thread (and a quick glance at the JDU one), you still have some issues you need to work out. I don't think it's in your best interests to rush this as quickly as possible.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:36 am

If i took a second year off I'd have an inexplicable gap on my resume that I'd have to explain to employers. I'd prefer not to do that. In July I will submit all the reports to the school.

Which C&F attorney should I retain--flat fee for $3500 or the hourly rate ones?




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