Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

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mmelittlechicken
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby mmelittlechicken » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:00 am

Honeysuckle wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Honestly, I'd try to strike a deal with the school that says you won't come back on campus and will do your third year at the local school. Sounds win win. School doesn't have you threatening people and you get to graduate.

Also OP that administrative action you posted isn't really on point. That person had a condition put on that person for return violated the ADA. The school essentially said she didn't meet the condition because she might be violent because of her disability. You don't have such condition for return. You withdrew from the school? Do you have to reapply or is it automatic? If you have to reapply, I think you are fucked. Nowhere does that case say that you can't consider the persons violent past. The only reason that the school in the case couldn't was because they already gave a conditional admittance.


I don't know why the school is making things more difficult than they are. I am not trying to get into the original school. I want to strike a deal with the original school saying that I will transfer to a local school and complete my 3L year there so I can receive treatment. If I were forced to go back to my original school, my treatment for bipolar disorder would be interrupted. I don't even want to go back to the original school after all that has happened. I just want permission to transfer.

If your condition is that fragile I can't imagine why schools would hesitate to admit you!

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:07 am

mmelittlechicken wrote:
Honeysuckle wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Honestly, I'd try to strike a deal with the school that says you won't come back on campus and will do your third year at the local school. Sounds win win. School doesn't have you threatening people and you get to graduate.

Also OP that administrative action you posted isn't really on point. That person had a condition put on that person for return violated the ADA. The school essentially said she didn't meet the condition because she might be violent because of her disability. You don't have such condition for return. You withdrew from the school? Do you have to reapply or is it automatic? If you have to reapply, I think you are fucked. Nowhere does that case say that you can't consider the persons violent past. The only reason that the school in the case couldn't was because they already gave a conditional admittance.


I don't know why the school is making things more difficult than they are. I am not trying to get into the original school. I want to strike a deal with the original school saying that I will transfer to a local school and complete my 3L year there so I can receive treatment. If I were forced to go back to my original school, my treatment for bipolar disorder would be interrupted. I don't even want to go back to the original school after all that has happened. I just want permission to transfer.

If your condition is that fragile I can't imagine why schools would hesitate to admit you!


I don't want to attend my original school. That's the point. No way in hell am I going back there or paying another dime to the original school after all that has occurred. I want to complete my 3L year at one of four local schools. Doing so will also allow me to have continuity of care because I can continue with the same treatment providers.

BearLaw
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby BearLaw » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:52 am

I am really not understanding the why you keep driving at the same points. I understand that you are now under care of various doctors/medical professionals and have been diagnosed bi-polar, however, the various sanctions (both in and out of school) you list in your OP, and the conduct leading to them took place before any medical diagnosis existed. Further, the individuals that applied for "stay-away orders" are not bound by the ADA in their individual capacity, even if they work for the school.

This will come up in your C&F, regardless of how your return to school goes.

As for the return to school, you seem ahead of yourself. If you have not completed the medical leave, or imitated the process to get back in, I would do that first before you worry about what happens if they deny your request. Be aware though, I dont think they can stop you from going to a local school, but I doubt your original school would be forced to give you a diploma with their name on it if you do not, in fact, finish your education there.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:55 am

BearLaw wrote:I am really not understanding the why you keep driving at the same points. I understand that you are now under care of various doctors/medical professionals and have been diagnosed bi-polar, however, the various sanctions (both in and out of school) you list in your OP, and the conduct leading to them took place before any medical diagnosis existed. Further, the individuals that applied for "stay-away orders" are not bound by the ADA in their individual capacity, even if they work for the school.

This will come up in your C&F, regardless of how your return to school goes.

As for the return to school, you seem ahead of yourself. If you have not completed the medical leave, or imitated the process to get back in, I would do that first before you worry about what happens if they deny your request. Be aware though, I dont think they can stop you from going to a local school, but I doubt your original school would be forced to give you a diploma with their name on it if you do not, in fact, finish your education there.


The stay away orders were not done thru a court process. They were initiated and later lifted by the school. All of the sanctions were initiated by the school. I have no criminal record.

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Desert Fox
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:41 pm

Is returning after a medical withdrawn automatic? Or do you have to reapply?

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:04 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Is returning after a medical withdrawn automatic? Or do you have to reapply?


I have to submit evals from my treatment providers, and the school psychologist has to clear me first. Then I have to apply to the four local schools.

I'm going balls to the wall with treatment. Monthly psychiatrist visit, weekly psychotherapy, weekly support group session, and daily medication (80 mg. Latuda). Over the summer, I will see a forensic psychologist (who is also an attorney) for a mental health evaluation. In July, I'll have my psychiatrist, psychotherapist, support group director, and the forensic psychologist submit positive mental health evals stating that I am stable under medication and that I do not present a danger to myself or others. In addition, my aunt who is a psychiatrist will meet personally with the school psychologist and the Dean. Furthermore, a professor with whom I have a good rapport with agreed to write a letter of support and speak with the school psychologist and Dean. A friend of mine who will be an alum of the original school will also write a letter of support and speak to the school psychologist and the Dean. I am thinking of asking a friend from undergrad also speak to the school psychologist/Dean. I am also volunteering/interning with legal aid during the period of the withdrawal and will have my supervisor submit a letter of recommendation to the Dean.

So basically I am doing everything I can to get the support I need to get back in, and then transfer the hell outta the original school.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:08 pm

As was already mentioned, it seems you need to be asking about visiting another school, not transferring.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:13 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:As was already mentioned, it seems you need to be asking about visiting another school, not transferring.


Yeah, that's what I meant. Same thing.

I do not want anything to do with my original school. I'm not paying them another dime. I just want permission to transfer to a local school so I could continue with my same treatment providers.

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Desert Fox
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:16 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:As was already mentioned, it seems you need to be asking about visiting another school, not transferring.


Yeah, that's what I meant. Same thing.

I do not want anything to do with my original school. I'm not paying them another dime. I just want permission to transfer to a local school so I could continue with my same treatment providers.


It's actually not the same thing. Visiting means you still get your degree and you'll have to be readmitted to your local school first. And then get their permission to be a visiting school. Transfering doesn't require them to readmitt you or anything. But youll have to do two years at your new school.

Do you have two full years under your belt?

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:21 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Honeysuckle wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:As was already mentioned, it seems you need to be asking about visiting another school, not transferring.


Yeah, that's what I meant. Same thing.

I do not want anything to do with my original school. I'm not paying them another dime. I just want permission to transfer to a local school so I could continue with my same treatment providers.


It's actually not the same thing. Visiting means you still get your degree and you'll have to be readmitted to your local school first. And then get their permission to be a visiting school. Transfering doesn't require them to readmitt you or anything. But youll have to do two years at your new school.

Do you have two full years under your belt?


Yes, I have completed two years of law school. I want to complete my degree at a local school so I can continue my treatment. If I were forced to go back to my original school, treatment would be difficult as my psychiatrist, psychotherapist, and support group would be 300 miles away and it would be inconvenient going back and forth so frequently.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:12 pm

I'm registered for the MPRE tomorrow. If I pass, should I show my score report to the original school as evidence that I am stable?

Should I get a friend from undergrad to call the school psychologist and/or submit a letter of support to the Dean? (in addition to the law prof and the alum)

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Desert Fox
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:14 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:I'm registered for the MPRE tomorrow. If I pass, should I show my score report to the original school as evidence that I am stable?

Should I get a friend from undergrad to call the school psychologist and/or submit a letter of support to the Dean? (in addition to the law prof and the alum)


manic phase right?

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:17 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Honeysuckle wrote:I'm registered for the MPRE tomorrow. If I pass, should I show my score report to the original school as evidence that I am stable?

Should I get a friend from undergrad to call the school psychologist and/or submit a letter of support to the Dean? (in addition to the law prof and the alum)


manic phase right?


No I'm depressed right now because my situation is so $hitty.

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downinDtown
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby downinDtown » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:20 pm

OP, I admire your openness in sharing your situation (even though you probably share more info than I would be comfortable with if I were in your shoes, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ). I have family members with similar medical conditions, and I understand the stress and variety of issues that can accompany your condition. I also understand and have seen the many biases and stigmas related to these types of medical/mental situations. I think a few commenters here unfortunately demonstrate that, and I hope you can ignore them and that they can change their tune.

I have no idea/advice on your C&F or transferring situation. I would just encourage you to keep making progress with your treatment, stay calm and relaxed, and just take things one day at a time. There are naturally highs and lows (a little bipolar pun for ya), but with the right support system of your family & friends along with appropriate medical and psychological/psychiatric assistance, I know that you can keep making great progress. As others have said, just focus on the things you can control. Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff. My opinion is that you take all the time you need before trying to get back to school. Your health and well-being are infinitely more important than your academic pursuits and upcoming career. Just keep things in perspective.

Keep up the good work, you have people in your corner, and I hope all the best for you in your journey.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:26 pm

downinDtown wrote:OP, I admire your openness in sharing your situation (even though you probably share more info than I would be comfortable with if I were in your shoes, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ). I have family members with similar medical conditions, and I understand the stress and variety of issues that can accompany your condition. I also understand and have seen the many biases and stigmas related to these types of medical/mental situations. I think a few commenters here unfortunately demonstrate that, and I hope you can ignore them and that they can change their tune.

I have no idea/advice on your C&F or transferring situation. I would just encourage you to keep making progress with your treatment, stay calm and relaxed, and just take things one day at a time. There are naturally highs and lows (a little bipolar pun for ya), but with the right support system of your family & friends along with appropriate medical and psychological/psychiatric assistance, I know that you can keep making great progress. As others have said, just focus on the things you can control. Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff. My opinion is that you take all the time you need before trying to get back to school. Your health and well-being are infinitely more important than your academic pursuits and upcoming career. Just keep things in perspective.

Keep up the good work, you have people in your corner, and I hope all the best for you in your journey.


Thank you for your thoughtful response. I am truly doing everything to rehabilitate myself. It's just that the uncertainty is consuming me. If I'm not let back in, that means I have wasted all this time and effort and money in pursuing a legal career. I would be so devastated if my school rejected me despite all my efforts to redeem myself and be a better person.

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mmelittlechicken
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby mmelittlechicken » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:28 pm

How does speculating ITT help with the uncertainty?

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:31 pm

mmelittlechicken wrote:How does speculating ITT help with the uncertainty?


I'm just trying to figure out how to best position myself for re-enrollment and wondering what evidence of stability I should submit to the school.

Folks in the LSAT threads and the law school admissions forums stress all the time about uncertainty. How is this any different?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:34 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:I'm registered for the MPRE tomorrow. If I pass, should I show my score report to the original school as evidence that I am stable?

Should I get a friend from undergrad to call the school psychologist and/or submit a letter of support to the Dean? (in addition to the law prof and the alum)

I don't think either of these would help. The MPRE doesn't have anything to do with mental health, and an undergrad friend (who isn't a medical professional) isn't going to add anything.

I get that the indecision is frustrating, but do you have any indication from the school that they won't let you back in? It sounds like you're completing everything the school required of you. No one here is going to be able to say, "yes, if you do x they will definitely let you back in," or even "yes, if they don't let you back in you have recourse y that will fix it all." You need to try to let it go (and people stressing in the LSAT and admissions forums get told that all the time, too).

Your best sources for what to submit re: stability are going to be your school, and your healthcare providers. What random people on the internet think will show you're stable isn't probably that helpful.

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downinDtown
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby downinDtown » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:38 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:
downinDtown wrote:OP, I admire your openness in sharing your situation (even though you probably share more info than I would be comfortable with if I were in your shoes, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ). I have family members with similar medical conditions, and I understand the stress and variety of issues that can accompany your condition. I also understand and have seen the many biases and stigmas related to these types of medical/mental situations. I think a few commenters here unfortunately demonstrate that, and I hope you can ignore them and that they can change their tune.

I have no idea/advice on your C&F or transferring situation. I would just encourage you to keep making progress with your treatment, stay calm and relaxed, and just take things one day at a time. There are naturally highs and lows (a little bipolar pun for ya), but with the right support system of your family & friends along with appropriate medical and psychological/psychiatric assistance, I know that you can keep making great progress. As others have said, just focus on the things you can control. Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff. My opinion is that you take all the time you need before trying to get back to school. Your health and well-being are infinitely more important than your academic pursuits and upcoming career. Just keep things in perspective.

Keep up the good work, you have people in your corner, and I hope all the best for you in your journey.


Thank you for your thoughtful response. I am truly doing everything to rehabilitate myself. It's just that the uncertainty is consuming me. If I'm not let back in, that means I have wasted all this time and effort and money in pursuing a legal career. I would be so devastated if my school rejected me despite all my efforts to redeem myself and be a better person.

I know it can seem like it's overwhelming, and that's why I wanted to offer words of encouragement, but I will also say: you cannot focus on and worry about sunk costs; just let the process play out, keep calm and collected, and use your support system when you get going too far in one direction.

You will so much better off in the long run if you keep improving your well-being. Even a year delay wouldn't the worst thing in the world. No one, including you, can accurately predict what will be in the cards, but based on your recent progress, you know that you're getting to a better place with your treatment. The school process is apparently (and understandably) causing you grief, but trying to rush the process can actually be to your detriment. Just take things one day at a time. Based on your prior posts, the school will stick to its timeline, and you have to be patient. Demonstrating that your composed demeanor will likely have some impact in the school's perception of your treatment/progress.

All the best (and if you're taking the MPRE tomorrow, good luck).

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:40 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Honeysuckle wrote:I'm registered for the MPRE tomorrow. If I pass, should I show my score report to the original school as evidence that I am stable?

Should I get a friend from undergrad to call the school psychologist and/or submit a letter of support to the Dean? (in addition to the law prof and the alum)

I don't think either of these would help. The MPRE doesn't have anything to do with mental health, and an undergrad friend (who isn't a medical professional) isn't going to add anything.

I get that the indecision is frustrating, but do you have any indication from the school that they won't let you back in? It sounds like you're completing everything the school required of you. No one here is going to be able to say, "yes, if you do x they will definitely let you back in," or even "yes, if they don't let you back in you have recourse y that will fix it all." You need to try to let it go (and people stressing in the LSAT and admissions forums get told that all the time, too).

Your best sources for what to submit re: stability are going to be your school, and your healthcare providers. What random people on the internet think will show you're stable isn't probably that helpful.


How about a letter of evaluation from my summer employer? I will be working FT this summer for legal aid.

BearLaw
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby BearLaw » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:19 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Honeysuckle wrote:I'm registered for the MPRE tomorrow. If I pass, should I show my score report to the original school as evidence that I am stable?

Should I get a friend from undergrad to call the school psychologist and/or submit a letter of support to the Dean? (in addition to the law prof and the alum)

I don't think either of these would help. The MPRE doesn't have anything to do with mental health, and an undergrad friend (who isn't a medical professional) isn't going to add anything.

I get that the indecision is frustrating, but do you have any indication from the school that they won't let you back in? It sounds like you're completing everything the school required of you. No one here is going to be able to say, "yes, if you do x they will definitely let you back in," or even "yes, if they don't let you back in you have recourse y that will fix it all." You need to try to let it go (and people stressing in the LSAT and admissions forums get told that all the time, too).

Your best sources for what to submit re: stability are going to be your school, and your healthcare providers. What random people on the internet think will show you're stable isn't probably that helpful.


How about a letter of evaluation from my summer employer? I will be working FT this summer for legal aid.


I don't think this will be of much help. The school is under no obligation to consider anything that is not from a medical source/professional. Take Mouse's advice, do the things the school outlined, and listen to your Dr.'s and focus on getting and staying better. Indecision and waiting suck, but obsessing and trying to cram every source of reference under the schools nose will just add stress at little net benefit to your outcome.

Assuming you are telling the whole story (and there is no reason to think you are not), it seems as though you are following through with treatment and the requirements your school laid out. Beyond doing those two things, there isnt much else you can do. Let the process play out and worry about the eventualities if and when they come up.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:53 pm

BearLaw wrote:
Honeysuckle wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Honeysuckle wrote:I'm registered for the MPRE tomorrow. If I pass, should I show my score report to the original school as evidence that I am stable?

Should I get a friend from undergrad to call the school psychologist and/or submit a letter of support to the Dean? (in addition to the law prof and the alum)

I don't think either of these would help. The MPRE doesn't have anything to do with mental health, and an undergrad friend (who isn't a medical professional) isn't going to add anything.

I get that the indecision is frustrating, but do you have any indication from the school that they won't let you back in? It sounds like you're completing everything the school required of you. No one here is going to be able to say, "yes, if you do x they will definitely let you back in," or even "yes, if they don't let you back in you have recourse y that will fix it all." You need to try to let it go (and people stressing in the LSAT and admissions forums get told that all the time, too).

Your best sources for what to submit re: stability are going to be your school, and your healthcare providers. What random people on the internet think will show you're stable isn't probably that helpful.


How about a letter of evaluation from my summer employer? I will be working FT this summer for legal aid.


I don't think this will be of much help. The school is under no obligation to consider anything that is not from a medical source/professional. Take Mouse's advice, do the things the school outlined, and listen to your Dr.'s and focus on getting and staying better. Indecision and waiting suck, but obsessing and trying to cram every source of reference under the schools nose will just add stress at little net benefit to your outcome.

Assuming you are telling the whole story (and there is no reason to think you are not), it seems as though you are following through with treatment and the requirements your school laid out. Beyond doing those two things, there isnt much else you can do. Let the process play out and worry about the eventualities if and when they come up.


Will the letter of support/phone call from the professor help my chances?

Also, my psychotherapist thinks I have Bipolar I, but my psychiatrist thinks I have Bipolar II. How will the school look at those conflicting diagnoses? Will it look worse if I have Bipolar I? Also my aunt who is a psychiatrist thinks I have PTSD b/c of childhood sexual abuse. She thinks that my outbursts at the school were linked to PTSD.

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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:05 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:Will the letter of support/phone call from the professor help my chances?

Also, my psychotherapist thinks I have Bipolar I, but my psychiatrist thinks I have Bipolar II. How will the school look at those conflicting diagnoses? Will it look worse if I have Bipolar I? Also my aunt who is a psychiatrist thinks I have PTSD b/c of childhood sexual abuse. She thinks that my outbursts at the school were linked to PTSD.


No one here can answer these questions for you.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby Honeysuckle » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:07 pm

Should I have my aunt who is a psychiatrist talk with the school face to face about my situation? Or will that fact that she is related render her input invalid?

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mmelittlechicken
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Re: Disciplinary Action in Law School--C&F?

Postby mmelittlechicken » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:09 pm

You should leave the school alone and stop posting personal information on the internet.




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