Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:48 pm

What if said office-mate is super attractive? :shock:



Edit: didn't mean to anon, too lazy to figure out how to un-anon.

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bearsfan23
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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby bearsfan23 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:49 pm

chimp wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I would hate to share an office with a woman.


looks like this thread is really about to start now

They get slime on stuff. They are chatty and not stoic. They wear dresses in summer that are meant for 90 degree days without accounting for AC in their building and then relentlessly bitch about how cold it is.

this is definitely a thing, but getting slime on stuff? lol


I never really thought about it, but I think DF and Chimp have a point on the "getting cold" thing.

As a man, I would love to be able to wear dresses or skirts when it's 95 degrees outside during the summer. Unfortunately, society has said this is a no-no, so I'm forced to sweat my balls off even wearing business casual clothes. Therefore, I'd probably rather not have to share an office with someone who is shivering cold when its 72 degrees inside.

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lymenheimer
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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:58 pm

bearsfan23 wrote:
chimp wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I would hate to share an office with a woman.


looks like this thread is really about to start now

They get slime on stuff. They are chatty and not stoic. They wear dresses in summer that are meant for 90 degree days without accounting for AC in their building and then relentlessly bitch about how cold it is.

this is definitely a thing, but getting slime on stuff? lol


I never really thought about it, but I think DF and Chimp have a point on the "getting cold" thing.

As a man, I would love to be able to wear dresses or skirts when it's 95 degrees outside during the summer. Unfortunately, society has said this is a no-no, so I'm forced to sweat my balls off even wearing business casual clothes. Therefore, I'd probably rather not have to share an office with someone who is shivering cold when its 72 degrees inside.


This could be a thing... Male Swedish train conductors wear skirts to protest dress code

edit: for the lazy
Last edited by lymenheimer on Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:01 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am also married and see what user above is saying. He's not afraid of cheating on his wife. but you spend all day with your office-mate. you shoot the breeze when its slow, vent to each other, get each others opinions on what the partner really means in his email to you etc. there is definitely a bond that forms between office mates, no doubt plutonic but still, you'll spend more time talking to your female office mate than your wife EVERY SINGLE DAY.

the fact that everyone on this thread seems to think its no big deal that a married man will have more conversations with some strange woman than with his actual wife on a daily basis, and that this is totally normal, and that OP must have marriage problems if he thinks this is an issue, speaks volume about this generation's light views towards marriage and their selfish mindset in general. the fact that no person is sympathetic to understand why this situation would make a wife uncomfortable leads me to believe its actually YOUR marriages that will have problems, and not the above posters.

No, sorry, you're just absolutely wrong. I've been married 15 years and I don't give a shit what gender of person my husband works with under whatever conditions. He probably has more conversations with lots of people who aren't me, daily, than he does with me, because he spends a lot of time at work. As do I. This isn't about selfishness, this is about being a grown up and not suspecting your partner of doing anything untoward (or the office mate of doing anything untoward) simply because the office mate is of the opposite gender.


Also, I mean, lets be real, you only have an office mate for 2 years at most in biglaw. And they typically rotate a couple times within that period. This isn't like a lifelong thing.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:21 pm

.

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graphia
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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby graphia » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:29 pm

I consider myself a feminist, but I can see where the earlier anon's concern comes from. It's not an issue of objectifying or trying to marginalize women, just doing what you can to support your significant other.

Biglaw already places stress on a marriage. I would take any reasonable actions to mitigate the chances of my biglaw stint including a divorce; even if my partner's anxiety was unfounded. In my opinion, a healthy marriage isn't about analyzing whether your partner's needs and requests are perfectly rational, and only if they pass muster honoring them. I think anyone who's been in a committed relationship for any meaningful length of time can think of a time they compromised even if they didn't agree with or understand their partner's rationale.

Before reading this thread, I would have requested a male office mate if my wife felt at all uncomfortable with the situation, and I would have thought nothing of it. Thank you, and I mean this sincerely, for the insight. I wouldn't have guessed so many in the legal industry would see this issue so differently.
Last edited by graphia on Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby rpupkin » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:31 pm

My wife is racist. I'm not racist and I don't have a problem working with anybody, but my wife won't respect my work if I'm supervised by dark-skinned attorneys. Accordingly, I'd like be staffed on matters where all the partners and senior associates are white.

I know my wife isn't being reasonable here, but it will put strain on our marriage if she doesn't respect the work I'm doing. Big law is stressful enough without having my wife giving me grief about getting work assignments from blacks and mexicans.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby hdunlop » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:33 pm

Exactly the same

You know who else was racist?

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graphia
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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby graphia » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:43 pm

Rpupkin, I've seen enough of your posts on here to know you're intelligent enough to recognize that your racist wife scenario isn't analogous to what we're talking about. The issue here is anxiety about infidelity, not respecting work product. Overt racism like that hasn't been socially acceptable for some time, but fear of unfaithful spouses may continue for, well, ever. Further, typical marriage vows don't include promises to deliver work product your spouse respects; but most of them tend to cover the faithfulness thing.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby 071816 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:46 pm

graphia wrote:Rpupkin, I've seen enough of your posts on here to know you're intelligent enough to recognize that your racist wife scenario isn't analogous to what we're talking about. The issue here is anxiety about infidelity, not respecting work product. Overt racism like that hasn't been socially acceptable for some time, but fear of unfaithful spouses may continue for, well, ever. Further, typical marriage vows don't include promises to deliver work product your spouse respects; but most of them tend to cover the faithfulness thing.

if you trust your spouse, are you really going to be so concerned about somebody of the opposite gender being in the same room as them? that's JUVENILE AS FUCK.

it's like saying, "my spouse works with a bunch of people of the opposite gender, so he/she IS PROBABLY FUCKING THEM"

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:52 pm

graphia wrote:Rpupkin, I've seen enough of your posts on here to know you're intelligent enough to recognize that your racist wife scenario isn't analogous to what we're talking about. The issue here is anxiety about infidelity, not respecting work product. Overt racism like that hasn't been socially acceptable for some time, but fear of unfaithful spouses may continue for, well, ever. Further, typical marriage vows don't include promises to deliver work product your spouse respects; but most of them tend to cover the faithfulness thing.

There's no reason to worry about infidelity just because your husband has to share an office with a woman, though - or at least, not unless your husband gives you reason to worry about infidelity, period, in which case the office sharing doesn't have anything to do with it.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:57 pm

If you want to make sure your spouse WONT cheat on you with someone, make them share a small space for 10-14 hours a day.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby 071816 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:59 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:There's no reason to worry about infidelity just because your husband has to share an office with a woman, though - or at least, not unless your husband gives you reason to worry about infidelity, period, in which case the office sharing doesn't have anything to do with it.

word

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Post removed.

Postby MistakenGenius » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:01 pm

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby graphia » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:02 pm

chimp wrote:
graphia wrote:Rpupkin, I've seen enough of your posts on here to know you're intelligent enough to recognize that your racist wife scenario isn't analogous to what we're talking about. The issue here is anxiety about infidelity, not respecting work product. Overt racism like that hasn't been socially acceptable for some time, but fear of unfaithful spouses may continue for, well, ever. Further, typical marriage vows don't include promises to deliver work product your spouse respects; but most of them tend to cover the faithfulness thing.

if you trust your spouse, are you really going to be so concerned about somebody of the opposite gender being in the same room as them? that's JUVENILE AS FUCK.

it's like saying, "my spouse works with a bunch of people of the opposite gender, so he/she IS PROBABLY FUCKING THEM"


We're arguing past each other here. I agree that if you trust your spouse it shouldn't be an issue, but people's anxieties are colored by their past experiences.

What if your spouse's previous marriage ended in divorce because of serial infidelity? If it happened to you, you might think, "well I'd just get over it and not let it effect my future relationships." But to refuse to accept anything less than perfect stoicism and detached, rational decision-making from your partner looks, to me, like a serious lack of empathy.
Last edited by graphia on Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby WestOfTheRest » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:02 pm

Proximity + Opportunity = Temptation

Give good people enough opportunity to do questionable things for temporary pleasure and you'll be surprised how often they will. This is amplified in a stressful environment where emotions can run high and sleep can, at times, be sparse. I'm constantly surprised at how much trust people place in others.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby 071816 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:03 pm

graphia wrote:
chimp wrote:
graphia wrote:Rpupkin, I've seen enough of your posts on here to know you're intelligent enough to recognize that your racist wife scenario isn't analogous to what we're talking about. The issue here is anxiety about infidelity, not respecting work product. Overt racism like that hasn't been socially acceptable for some time, but fear of unfaithful spouses may continue for, well, ever. Further, typical marriage vows don't include promises to deliver work product your spouse respects; but most of them tend to cover the faithfulness thing.

if you trust your spouse, are you really going to be so concerned about somebody of the opposite gender being in the same room as them? that's JUVENILE AS FUCK.

it's like saying, "my spouse works with a bunch of people of the opposite gender, so he/she IS PROBABLY FUCKING THEM"


We're arguing past each other here. I agree that if you trust your spouse it shouldn't be an issue, but people's anxieties are colored by their past experiences.

What if your spouse's previous marriage ended in divorce because of serial infidelity. If it happened to you, you might think, "well I'd just get over it and not let it effect my future relationships." But to refuse to accept anything less than perfect stoicism and detached, rational decision-making from your partner looks, to me, like a serious lack of empathy.

then dump em if they're immature and don't trust you. FUCK EM

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby rpupkin » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:05 pm

graphia wrote:Rpupkin, I've seen enough of your posts on here to know you're intelligent enough to recognize that your racist wife scenario isn't analogous to what we're talking about. The issue here is anxiety about infidelity, not respecting work product. Overt racism like that hasn't been socially acceptable for some time, but fear of unfaithful spouses may continue for, well, ever. Further, typical marriage vows don't include promises to deliver work product your spouse respects; but most of them tend to cover the faithfulness thing.

Actually, I think the traditional idea that a wife should respect the work of her husband is at least as old as the concept of fidelity.

In any event, I do think the racist wife scenario is analogous to what we're talking about. As I tried to explain upthread, we're not just talking about the quirky preference of a spouse. We're talking about a preference that is grounded in backwards views about what it means for women to work in a professional environment. The conception of women as irresistible sex objects is a form of gender discrimination--at least it is when it's imposed on the workplace.

The response to that point in this thread seems to be along the lines of: "We sometimes need to respect the irrational preferences of our spouses." Well, ok. But that seems to me a lot like the racist wife scenario. When your quirky preferences translate into harmful views about the role of underrepresented groups in the workplace, I don't have much sympathy for the "I gotta respect the marriage" fallback position.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby graphia » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:08 pm

chimp wrote:
graphia wrote:
chimp wrote:
graphia wrote:Rpupkin, I've seen enough of your posts on here to know you're intelligent enough to recognize that your racist wife scenario isn't analogous to what we're talking about. The issue here is anxiety about infidelity, not respecting work product. Overt racism like that hasn't been socially acceptable for some time, but fear of unfaithful spouses may continue for, well, ever. Further, typical marriage vows don't include promises to deliver work product your spouse respects; but most of them tend to cover the faithfulness thing.

if you trust your spouse, are you really going to be so concerned about somebody of the opposite gender being in the same room as them? that's JUVENILE AS FUCK.

it's like saying, "my spouse works with a bunch of people of the opposite gender, so he/she IS PROBABLY FUCKING THEM"


We're arguing past each other here. I agree that if you trust your spouse it shouldn't be an issue, but people's anxieties are colored by their past experiences.

What if your spouse's previous marriage ended in divorce because of serial infidelity. If it happened to you, you might think, "well I'd just get over it and not let it effect my future relationships." But to refuse to accept anything less than perfect stoicism and detached, rational decision-making from your partner looks, to me, like a serious lack of empathy.

then dump em if they're immature and don't trust you. FUCK EM


Serious question here: how old are you, and have you ever been married? You don't "dump" your spouse. You made a commitment to stand by each other through the good times and the shit times. I understand the reality that many marriages end in divorce, but the process is a little more involved than just dumping them.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby hdunlop » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:08 pm

no you guys the dawn of the new soviet person is upon us

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graphia
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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby graphia » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:11 pm

rpupkin wrote:
graphia wrote:Rpupkin, I've seen enough of your posts on here to know you're intelligent enough to recognize that your racist wife scenario isn't analogous to what we're talking about. The issue here is anxiety about infidelity, not respecting work product. Overt racism like that hasn't been socially acceptable for some time, but fear of unfaithful spouses may continue for, well, ever. Further, typical marriage vows don't include promises to deliver work product your spouse respects; but most of them tend to cover the faithfulness thing.

Actually, I think the traditional idea that a wife should respect the work of her husband is at least as old as the concept of fidelity.

In any event, I do think the racist wife scenario is analogous to what we're talking about. As I tried to explain upthread, we're not just talking about the quirky preference of a spouse. We're talking about a preference that is grounded in backwards views about what it means for women to work in a professional environment. The conception of women as irresistible sex objects is a form of gender discrimination--at least it is when it's imposed on the workplace.

The response to that point in this thread seems to be along the lines of: "We sometimes need to respect the irrational preferences of our spouses." Well, ok. But that seems to me a lot like the racist wife scenario. When your quirky preferences translate into harmful views about the role of underrepresented groups in the workplace, I don't have much sympathy for the "I gotta respect the marriage" fallback position.


I understand where you're coming from. Just to sidestep the (very real) issue of women being marginalized in the workplace/society at large, let's reverse the genders here. If it were a female associate, and her husband was worried about infidelity, would your answer change? Or let's remove gender further, what about a homosexual, male associate?
Last edited by graphia on Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby 071816 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:12 pm

graphia wrote:
chimp wrote:
graphia wrote:
chimp wrote:
graphia wrote:Rpupkin, I've seen enough of your posts on here to know you're intelligent enough to recognize that your racist wife scenario isn't analogous to what we're talking about. The issue here is anxiety about infidelity, not respecting work product. Overt racism like that hasn't been socially acceptable for some time, but fear of unfaithful spouses may continue for, well, ever. Further, typical marriage vows don't include promises to deliver work product your spouse respects; but most of them tend to cover the faithfulness thing.

if you trust your spouse, are you really going to be so concerned about somebody of the opposite gender being in the same room as them? that's JUVENILE AS FUCK.

it's like saying, "my spouse works with a bunch of people of the opposite gender, so he/she IS PROBABLY FUCKING THEM"


We're arguing past each other here. I agree that if you trust your spouse it shouldn't be an issue, but people's anxieties are colored by their past experiences.

What if your spouse's previous marriage ended in divorce because of serial infidelity. If it happened to you, you might think, "well I'd just get over it and not let it effect my future relationships." But to refuse to accept anything less than perfect stoicism and detached, rational decision-making from your partner looks, to me, like a serious lack of empathy.

then dump em if they're immature and don't trust you. FUCK EM


Serious question here: how old are you, and have you ever been married? You don't "dump" your spouse. You made a commitment to stand by each other through the good times and the shit times. I understand the reality that many marriages end in divorce, but the process is a little more involved than just dumping them.

late twenties. never been married but been in a long term committed relationship. maybe my comment was unfair because I don't see myself being attracted to, or getting involved with, anybody who was this distrusting/immature. I can't stand clingy/dependent/immature types. but I guess if you've already committed to that I could see appeasing your irrational spouse just so you don't have to put up with the headache, but IS THIS HOW YOU WANT TO LIVE? at least seek counseling because sharing an office with somebody of the opposite gender really isn't that serious.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby hdunlop » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:15 pm

I think the fear is less of sharing an office and more of sharing every waking hour of the day with them when you rarely see your spouse and when you do you have ED because all you can think about is stupid work or whatever

maybe not a problem for the new soviet person but for weaklings like me it's a concern

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:17 pm

If you were married to a serial cheater I'm sure you do have trust issues, but controlling who your spouse works with isn't really the solution. I get that a spouse might have those concerns, and that the couple might have to work that out, but I don't think that should actually affect someone's workplace.
WestOfTheRest wrote:Proximity + Opportunity = Temptation

Give good people enough opportunity to do questionable things for temporary pleasure and you'll be surprised how often they will. This is amplified in a stressful environment where emotions can run high and sleep can, at times, be sparse. I'm constantly surprised at how much trust people place in others.

You sound like you will be a wonderful spouse.

And personally, I don't care about the gender/sexual orientation - it doesn't make the slightest difference. No partner should be worried about their partner cheating because they share an office with someone of the gender they're attracted to, and if they are, that's on the relationship, not sharing an office.

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Re: Sharing office as a NYC associate - always same gender?

Postby WestOfTheRest » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:23 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:If you were married to a serial cheater I'm sure you do have trust issues, but controlling who your spouse works with isn't really the solution. I get that a spouse might have those concerns, and that the couple might have to work that out, but I don't think that should actually affect someone's workplace.
WestOfTheRest wrote:Proximity + Opportunity = Temptation

Give good people enough opportunity to do questionable things for temporary pleasure and you'll be surprised how often they will. This is amplified in a stressful environment where emotions can run high and sleep can, at times, be sparse. I'm constantly surprised at how much trust people place in others.

You sound like you will be a wonderful spouse.

And personally, I don't care about the gender/sexual orientation - it doesn't make the slightest difference. No partner should be worried about their partner cheating because they share an office with someone of the gender they're attracted to, and if they are, that's on the relationship, not sharing an office.

Doesn't really matter what kind of spouse I am/will be.

Coming from someone who has dealt with an SO (who wasn't a serial cheater by any stretch of the imagination) who spent 12+ hours a day working with someone of the opposite sex for several years, I know where it can end up. To marginalize other peoples' concerns about these arrangements is excessively close minded.

Personally, I could give two shits who my spouse works with, but after having an SO of 9 years leave me for the guy she worked with, I'm not stupid enough to sit here and lecture other people about how it's not a concern.




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