Shitigators Anonymous

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:29 pm

Hello I'm D.

(pause)

I work in litigation. And it scares me. Should I just lateral to shitlaw now?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:30 pm

Shitty when you have a bad loss, even worse when you have a Goodwin.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:11 pm

Checking in.

Wat do we do?

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2080
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Checking in.

Wat do we do?


There's no hope. Give up.

User avatar
DELG
Posts: 2936
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 7:15 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby DELG » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:20 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Checking in.

Wat do we do?


There's no hope. Give up.

TITCR

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:15 pm

Junior lit associate desperately applying to $65k state/local jobs. CR?

Cogburn87
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:26 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Cogburn87 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Junior lit associate desperately applying to $65k state/local jobs. CR?

Oh fo sho

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:53 pm

2L headed to a V20 this summer who wants to litigate (and did a a V50 1L summer, rotated between litigation and corporate) and a COA clerkship secured for 2016—is it time to start thinking about picking up corporate work this summer?

User avatar
DELG
Posts: 2936
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 7:15 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby DELG » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2L headed to a V20 this summer who wants to litigate (and did a a V50 1L summer, rotated between litigation and corporate) and a COA clerkship secured for 2016—is it time to start thinking about picking up corporate work this summer?

I would rather blow my brains out than do corp. However, if it would only make you flirt with suicidal thoughts, jump in.

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15401
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby sublime » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:01 pm

..

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Junior lit associate desperately applying to $65k state/local jobs. CR?


for sure.

User avatar
Desert Fox
Progressively loosing literacy
Posts: 14396
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2L headed to a V20 this summer who wants to litigate (and did a a V50 1L summer, rotated between litigation and corporate) and a COA clerkship secured for 2016—is it time to start thinking about picking up corporate work this summer?


debtload?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:13 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2L headed to a V20 this summer who wants to litigate (and did a a V50 1L summer, rotated between litigation and corporate) and a COA clerkship secured for 2016—is it time to start thinking about picking up corporate work this summer?


debtload?


About 30k. Also, for what it's worth, I enjoyed the corporate stuff I did over the summer, just not as much as the litigation work.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:14 pm

Summering at a lit/trial firm this summer. Slightly above market pay and less than 60 attorneys. I wouldn't classify it as a boutique, and a search of this site returned exactly zero hits on the firm name. Partner at callback said Lit is basically a career non-starter at any big firm, that if you want to do lit it's boutique or bust.

Thoughts? I like the firm a lot, but am worried about starting at a small non- name brand firm. Again though the partner was selling hard that substantive trial experience > lit dept at a big firm every time.

Eta: this is a new Anon.

User avatar
Lacepiece23
Posts: 835
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Lacepiece23 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Summering at a lit/trial firm this summer. Slightly above market pay and less than 60 attorneys. I wouldn't classify it as a boutique, and a search of this site returned exactly zero hits on the firm name. Partner at callback said Lit is basically a career non-starter at any big firm, that if you want to do lit it's boutique or bust.

Thoughts? I like the firm a lot, but am worried about starting at a small non- name brand firm. Again though the partner was selling hard that substantive trial experience > lit dept at a big firm every time.

Eta: this is a new Anon.


Sounds like a dream job bro.

User avatar
Pneumonia
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Pneumonia » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:19 pm

tag

User avatar
los blancos
Posts: 7116
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:18 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby los blancos » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:20 pm

Or they're full of shit/you'll be unlucky with assignments and you'll end up doc reviewing anyways. Only one way to find out!

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:22 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Summering at a lit/trial firm this summer. Slightly above market pay and less than 60 attorneys. I wouldn't classify it as a boutique, and a search of this site returned exactly zero hits on the firm name. Partner at callback said Lit is basically a career non-starter at any big firm, that if you want to do lit it's boutique or bust.

Thoughts? I like the firm a lot, but am worried about starting at a small non- name brand firm. Again though the partner was selling hard that substantive trial experience > lit dept at a big firm every time.

Eta: this is a new Anon.


Sounds like a dream job bro.


I know I'd enjoy the job while I was there, but the firm is still up-or-out so I'm worried about exit options. Biglaw lit exit options seem basically non-existent, and I'm wondering if it's the same for smaller "boutique-ish" firms. I'm convinced that biglaw lit is something I should try to avoid if possible (Goodwin etc.), but am not sure if this opportunity will provide more long-term security.

User avatar
Desert Fox
Progressively loosing literacy
Posts: 14396
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2L headed to a V20 this summer who wants to litigate (and did a a V50 1L summer, rotated between litigation and corporate) and a COA clerkship secured for 2016—is it time to start thinking about picking up corporate work this summer?


debtload?


About 30k. Also, for what it's worth, I enjoyed the corporate stuff I did over the summer, just not as much as the litigation work.


Well, the real big downside to litigation is that the exit options are more limited and pay less. If money isn't a huge deal and really like shitigation, go for it. But corp bros will probably have a better careeer trajectory.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:36 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:2L headed to a V20 this summer who wants to litigate (and did a a V50 1L summer, rotated between litigation and corporate) and a COA clerkship secured for 2016—is it time to start thinking about picking up corporate work this summer?


debtload?


About 30k. Also, for what it's worth, I enjoyed the corporate stuff I did over the summer, just not as much as the litigation work.


Well, the real big downside to litigation is that the exit options are more limited and pay less. If money isn't a huge deal and really like shitigation, go for it. But corp bros will probably have a better careeer trajectory.


That was true before and after this recent freak out and is baked into my considerations already. My question is, for someone in my position who won't begin practice until 2017 at the earliest (given the clerkship and possibility of a second for 2017), is this downturn something that I should be taking into account? A different way to put it is, to what extent is this a long-term and structural thing? Is it going to have a disproportionate effect on different kinds of firms (e.g. a Goodwin as opposed to a V20 that is better known for litigation practice than corporate)?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:15 pm

Decade-plus litigator here. I went clerkship->V20->government in a secondary market->AmLaw 100 in that secondary market. Currently counsel/NE partner.

Here's some job security tips if you're thinking litigation:

1.) Learn how to write really well really quickly. The big hitters don't write their own briefs, and they don't trust junior or really even midlevel associates to handle the big briefs. The senior associates/of counsel/NE partners who stick around without a big book usually do so because they can churn out super-polished work product quickly and reliably. And when I say "write really well," I mean how to turn out briefs that read like freakin' George RR Martin novels. And I know almost all law students and young lawyers think they write well. You don't. It's a skill you learn in practice. Do so quickly.

2.) Try to develop expertise in an industry as quickly as possible. Try to make that industry a hot one -- health care, consumer protection, IP, etc. The biggest reason gen lit associates get RIF'd is that they're fungible. Why keep them on when a big case settles if you can just hire a generic gen lit lateral in a year or two when it picks back up. It's much harder to fire someone who's developed an expertise in (say) health care FCA lawsuits.

3.) Similarly, try to develop some sort of regulatory expertise in whatever field you're litigating. If you do a lot of insurance work, for example, try to pick up a more-than-basic knowledge of insurance regulation. One, this again gives you a hard-to-replace expertise. Two, you'll never be a deal lawyer, but if people seek you out to help on the regulatory side of a transaction (like in my example, making sure an insurance company acquisition complies with state requirements), it makes you harder to fire because "well, she's slow now that the Mega Case settled, but she can pick up some work doing the regulatory stuff for Bob's insurance clients." And three, it will pay off later down the road when you know the client's business and regulatory concerns.

4.) Really consider a government stint, even if it's not federal. Yeah, the pay sucks. Yeah, a lot of people are kind of sucky. But there is almost always a demand within a firm for lawyers with government experience. When clients have a problem with a particular agency, the mere fact that you worked on matters involving that agency (even if it's only a couple) while with the state AG or whatever automatically means you get assigned to the case.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:17 pm

Sup?

User avatar
rpupkin
Posts: 3864
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby rpupkin » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:That was true before and after this recent freak out and is baked into my considerations already. My question is, for someone in my position who won't begin practice until 2017 at the earliest (given the clerkship and possibility of a second for 2017), is this downturn something that I should be taking into account? A different way to put it is, to what extent is this a long-term and structural thing? Is it going to have a disproportionate effect on different kinds of firms (e.g. a Goodwin as opposed to a V20 that is better known for litigation practice than corporate)?

I don't know if it's structural or long-term. Four years ago, folks were saying that litigation was safer than corporate because the former is more insulated from economic cycles. It's hard to predict this stuff.

You've got a COA clerkship for 2016. Were I you, I would just focus on lit and worry about the strength of different firms' litigation practices in early 2017, when you're considering firms for after your clerkship. Switching to corporate would make your clerkship worthless.

Cogburn87
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:26 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby Cogburn87 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:And when I say "write really well," I mean how to turn out briefs that read like freakin' George RR Martin novels.

What does this mean? Write briefs that read like bloated travelogues where no one ever actually reaches the destination they set out for?

User avatar
baal hadad
Posts: 3168
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:57 pm

Re: Shitigators Anonymous

Postby baal hadad » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:46 pm

Cogburn87 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:And when I say "write really well," I mean how to turn out briefs that read like freakin' George RR Martin novels.

What does this mean? Write briefs that read like bloated travelogues where no one ever actually reaches the destination they set out for?

Write briefs which make incest a major plot element




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.