Jones Day opens office in Detroit

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krads153
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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby krads153 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:24 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:My firm has two Baltimore offices. lol. I used to think about transferring for dat savings. But I don't wanna have to buy a street sweeper.


But you could RIOT!! :lol:

krads153 wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
krads153 wrote:Interesting. Maybe rent is dirt cheap in Detroit proper? Gotta say - Detroit proper is kind of crappy, but there are parts around it (Grosse Ile Township, etc.) that are expensive and really nice and have a ton of rich auto execs. Some of the richest places in the country (highest income per capita) are in Michigan.

Maybe I'm unusual, but I didn't like Chicago at all when I visited...


Some of the Detroit suburbs are exceptionally nice. And relative to most of the country, they are really cheap (you're talking about what would probably be $100 million+ dollar houses in NYC going for around a million or two in the Detroit suburbs). The negative is that you're still in a suburb and there's no real city anywhere around. Not bad if you're older and have kids or something like that though.


Yeah, I dunno. I'd take suburbs right now over NYC. I work too much to do anything in NYC and everything is SUPER DUPER expensive. I think I'm literally throwing away money for no reason. There's no point in a living in a big city when you never have the time to do anything. I think I'd only feel like it was worth staying in NYC if I saved up $10 million and had investment income so I didn't have to work.


Problem is Detroit salaries are so much lower. I'm sure it's awesome if you can get NYC market in Detroit, but pretty much all major firms in Detroit pay a lot less. It still works out really well relative to living in NYC. But I think the best balance anywhere is Texas (Dallas/Houston), assuming you don't really care about being in NYC (I don't). Think cost of living is actually cheaper in TX than it is in Detroit, and you at least get somewhat of a city (albeit, there's not much in Dallas--haven't been to Houston). Not to mention no state income tax means you're already taking home like another $10k /year relative to NYC. But you need ties to TX to get there (similar to Detroit).


I think I figured if I were making 100k in a cheap COL area, it'd be the same or maybe better than making 200k in NYC, taking into account COL and less in taxes....but yeah Texas is probably best bang for your buck.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:38 pm

krads153 wrote:I think I figured if I were making 100k in a cheap COL area, it'd be the same or maybe better than making 200k in NYC, taking into account COL and less in taxes....but yeah Texas is probably best bang for your buck.


FWIW, fed gvt with a few years of experience pays over $100k+ in Detroit. If you can get GS-15 (which takes as little as 3.5 years at some agencies in DC), you're looking at $126k to $159k, which is a steal relative to MI biglaw since most agencies give you a lot better work/life balance.

Nomo
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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby Nomo » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:49 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
krads153 wrote:I think I figured if I were making 100k in a cheap COL area, it'd be the same or maybe better than making 200k in NYC, taking into account COL and less in taxes....but yeah Texas is probably best bang for your buck.


FWIW, fed gvt with a few years of experience pays over $100k+ in Detroit. If you can get GS-15 (which takes as little as 3.5 years at some agencies in DC), you're looking at $126k to $159k, which is a steal relative to MI biglaw since most agencies give you a lot better work/life balance.


Very few agencies will promote you to GS-15 in 3.5 years. DOJ will. But getting DOJ is wayyy harder than getting biglaw in New York, Texas, Detroit, or anywhere else. And how many federal legal jobs in Michigan are there with promotional potential to GS-15? Maybe a couple of supervisor slots at district offices? But those jobs are normally going to people with at least 10 years of experience, and normally 20+ years.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:58 pm

Nomo wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
krads153 wrote:I think I figured if I were making 100k in a cheap COL area, it'd be the same or maybe better than making 200k in NYC, taking into account COL and less in taxes....but yeah Texas is probably best bang for your buck.


FWIW, fed gvt with a few years of experience pays over $100k+ in Detroit. If you can get GS-15 (which takes as little as 3.5 years at some agencies in DC), you're looking at $126k to $159k, which is a steal relative to MI biglaw since most agencies give you a lot better work/life balance.


Very few agencies will promote you to GS-15 in 3.5 years. DOJ will. But getting DOJ is wayyy harder than getting biglaw in New York, Texas, Detroit, or anywhere else. And how many federal legal jobs in Michigan are there with promotional potential to GS-15? Maybe a couple of supervisor slots at district offices? But those jobs are normally going to people with at least 10 years of experience, and normally 20+ years.


Okay. So take GS-14 with 3-5 years of experience. Still looking at $107k-139k. Not bad. Shit, even at legal jobs that cap out at GS-13, you're looking at 6 figures with a few years of experience, which is pretty awesome in a place like Detroit.
Last edited by XxSpyKEx on Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Desert Fox
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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:01 pm

DF in teh fight of his life for ALJ in Detriot.

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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:26 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:My firm has two Baltimore offices. lol. I used to think about transferring for dat savings. But I don't wanna have to buy a street sweeper.


But you could RIOT!! :lol:

krads153 wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
krads153 wrote:Interesting. Maybe rent is dirt cheap in Detroit proper? Gotta say - Detroit proper is kind of crappy, but there are parts around it (Grosse Ile Township, etc.) that are expensive and really nice and have a ton of rich auto execs. Some of the richest places in the country (highest income per capita) are in Michigan.

Maybe I'm unusual, but I didn't like Chicago at all when I visited...


Some of the Detroit suburbs are exceptionally nice. And relative to most of the country, they are really cheap (you're talking about what would probably be $100 million+ dollar houses in NYC going for around a million or two in the Detroit suburbs). The negative is that you're still in a suburb and there's no real city anywhere around. Not bad if you're older and have kids or something like that though.


Yeah, I dunno. I'd take suburbs right now over NYC. I work too much to do anything in NYC and everything is SUPER DUPER expensive. I think I'm literally throwing away money for no reason. There's no point in a living in a big city when you never have the time to do anything. I think I'd only feel like it was worth staying in NYC if I saved up $10 million and had investment income so I didn't have to work.


Problem is Detroit salaries are so much lower. I'm sure it's awesome if you can get NYC market in Detroit, but pretty much all major firms in Detroit pay a lot less. It still works out really well relative to living in NYC. But I think the best balance anywhere is Texas (Dallas/Houston), assuming you don't really care about being in NYC (I don't). Think cost of living is actually cheaper in TX than it is in Detroit, and you at least get somewhat of a city (albeit, there's not much in Dallas--haven't been to Houston). Not to mention no state income tax means you're already taking home like another $10k /year relative to NYC. But you need ties to TX to get there (similar to Detroit).



Only exception is firms like Foley and maybe Jones Day if they grow that office - starting at Foley is 145, which is like making 327k in NYC: http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/sav ... lator.aspx. With those two now in the market this might drive income up for the Detroit area firms in order to be more competitive. Sure, JD is the unknown, but Foley is doubling the size of the office over the next few years.

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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby Nomo » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:45 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
Nomo wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
krads153 wrote:I think I figured if I were making 100k in a cheap COL area, it'd be the same or maybe better than making 200k in NYC, taking into account COL and less in taxes....but yeah Texas is probably best bang for your buck.


FWIW, fed gvt with a few years of experience pays over $100k+ in Detroit. If you can get GS-15 (which takes as little as 3.5 years at some agencies in DC), you're looking at $126k to $159k, which is a steal relative to MI biglaw since most agencies give you a lot better work/life balance.


Very few agencies will promote you to GS-15 in 3.5 years. DOJ will. But getting DOJ is wayyy harder than getting biglaw in New York, Texas, Detroit, or anywhere else. And how many federal legal jobs in Michigan are there with promotional potential to GS-15? Maybe a couple of supervisor slots at district offices? But those jobs are normally going to people with at least 10 years of experience, and normally 20+ years.


Okay. So take GS-14 with 3-5 years of experience. Still looking at $107k-139k. Not bad. Shit, even at legal jobs that cap out at GS-13, you're looking at 6 figures with a few years of experience, which is pretty awesome in a place like Detroit.


I just checked on USA jobs. There are currently 0 openings for attorney's in Michigan. There are also 0 attorney openings in OH, MN, and WI. There are six openings in Illinois (all in the Chicago area). Of those six, only two are open to people who graduated in the last two years - and those two are also open to attorneys with many years of experience, so its not clear if they're really interested in hiring a younger attorney.

I think people constantly underestimate just how few federal jobs there really are.

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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby Desert Fox » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:46 pm

check yoy PTAB judges

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:09 pm

Nomo wrote:I just checked on USA jobs. There are currently 0 openings for attorney's in Michigan. There are also 0 attorney openings in OH, MN, and WI. There are six openings in Illinois (all in the Chicago area). Of those six, only two are open to people who graduated in the last two years - and those two are also open to attorneys with many years of experience, so its not clear if they're really interested in hiring a younger attorney.

I think people constantly underestimate just how few federal jobs there really are.


Just out of curiosity, how many MI biglaw lateral openings are there for people with less than 2 years of experience? (I ask because I suspect there probably isn't very many, given how few legal jobs there are in MI generally.)

You really gotta do honors if you want to get into fed gvt without experience. After 2-3 years of experience, a lot of fed gvt doors open up. No doubt fed gvt isn't easy to get (particularly in places like Detroit, where there are very few jobs generally), but if you can get it, it's a great alternatively to biglaw in places like Detroit, since the pay is pretty close, while giving you a lot better hours than biglaw. I interviewed for a fed gvt job in Detroit a few months ago, so they do exist. (Although, I don't think I could have brought myself to live/work in Detroit---it's so epically rundown, and I'm not from that area.)

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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:32 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
Nomo wrote:I just checked on USA jobs. There are currently 0 openings for attorney's in Michigan. There are also 0 attorney openings in OH, MN, and WI. There are six openings in Illinois (all in the Chicago area). Of those six, only two are open to people who graduated in the last two years - and those two are also open to attorneys with many years of experience, so its not clear if they're really interested in hiring a younger attorney.

I think people constantly underestimate just how few federal jobs there really are.


Just out of curiosity, how many MI biglaw lateral openings are there for people with less than 2 years of experience? (I ask because I suspect there probably isn't very many, given how few legal jobs there are in MI generally.)

You really gotta do honors if you want to get into fed gvt without experience. After 2-3 years of experience, a lot of fed gvt doors open up. No doubt fed gvt isn't easy to get (particularly in places like Detroit, where there are very few jobs generally), but if you can get it, it's a great alternatively to biglaw in places like Detroit, since the pay is pretty close, while giving you a lot better hours than biglaw. I interviewed for a fed gvt job in Detroit a few months ago, so they do exist. (Although, I don't think I could have brought myself to live/work in Detroit---it's so epically rundown, and I'm not from that area.)


I spoke with all the major firms in Detroit and Grand Rapids during OCI this past fall. It seemed like there have been a number over the last 2 years of laterals from Big Law in NYC, SF/SD/LA and Chi to the Detroit area but about 60% of these were people coming back "home" or those that went to area uni's - Michigan, MSU, Detroit, Wayne, etc. Most seemed to be in their 2.5-4th year out of LS by the time they transferred. That being said, all the firms are having larger classes than years prior and are seeing more applicants from schools they ordinarily don't - one firm said they saw more apps from HSY specifically, but the T14 in general, this year than they have in the past 5 years combined. Probably a mix of the bankruptcy putting Detroit in the news (good and bad) and articles like this: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/takin ... troit.html.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:55 pm

Wait, do people still live in Detroit? Like, the actual city. Not the suburbs.

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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:11 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Wait, do people still live in Detroit? Like, the actual city. Not the suburbs.

I think in about the same sense, and for the same reasons, as people still lived in New Orleans immediately after Katrina.

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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:54 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Wait, do people still live in Detroit? Like, the actual city. Not the suburbs.


Downtown, Midtown, Corktown, Indian Village, Riverside - yes - some of the more expensive places are in these areas Lofts and condo's in certain areas are going for 300k+, houses in Indian village can go for upwards of 500k+ which if things keep going as plan could move into the 700k-1m+ in price if things keep improving and the demand improves.

Places right around downtown and up to Wayne state and New Center are improving. Much beyond that isn't getting the attention - the city is so large that it will take few generations. Metro Detroit is larger than Boston, NYC, and San Fran combined as far as square mileage.

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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby DetroitBL » Mon May 18, 2015 10:48 pm

Any word on whether they'll be hiring new associates in the near future?

Also curious about starting salary; anyone have insight?

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Aeon
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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby Aeon » Wed May 20, 2015 10:03 pm

DetroitBL wrote:Any word on whether they'll be hiring new associates in the near future?

Also curious about starting salary; anyone have insight?



Nothing definite, but from what's known so far, it's not looking like they'll be hiring anyone fresh out of law school, at least not immediately.

The American Lawyer wrote:Looking ahead, Melton says the new office will try to fill spots internally and through lateral hires when necessary, though the firm is “not walking in with a hit list of folks we expect to recruit.”


ModelD wrote:The location of Jones Day's new office has yet to be selected, but Melton says that decision will be made in the next few weeks and the office will open by July. Melton expects the Detroit office to grow to six attorneys and as many support staff.

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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby DetroitBL » Thu May 21, 2015 9:38 am

Aeon wrote:
DetroitBL wrote:Any word on whether they'll be hiring new associates in the near future?

Also curious about starting salary; anyone have insight?



Nothing definite, but from what's known so far, it's not looking like they'll be hiring anyone fresh out of law school, at least not immediately.

The American Lawyer wrote:Looking ahead, Melton says the new office will try to fill spots internally and through lateral hires when necessary, though the firm is “not walking in with a hit list of folks we expect to recruit.”


ModelD wrote:The location of Jones Day's new office has yet to be selected, but Melton says that decision will be made in the next few weeks and the office will open by July. Melton expects the Detroit office to grow to six attorneys and as many support staff.


Thanks for this. Though you've made the news much less exciting.

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Re: Jones Day opens office in Detroit

Postby Aeon » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:56 pm





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