C&F Question: Fare Evasion

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C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:23 pm

Roughly a decade ago, I went through a door someone had opened in a subway station with several other people. I was fully aware of what I was doing, was young, spoiled and figured I might as well save a few dollars. We were all stopped by undercover police. They were arrested and I was not (I didn't know them and don't know why they were arrested.) I was given a yellow ticket with a 50 or 60 dollar fine, I don't remember. The officer said he was doing me a favor, and that it was essentially a parking ticket. I honestly completely forgot about this for a decade until I last rode the subway. To be frank, most of that time in my life is a daze.

My school's application only mentioned arrests that didn't result in convictions, but come to think of it I didn't even disclose it on apps asking for traffic tickets. I've had several background checks come up over the years, and there's no mention of it. When I tried to even find the info on it for myself recently, I could not. Does this require bar disclosure (is it more like a parking violation or more like a traffic violation), and would the inconsistency pose issues?

Please don't quote as I will delete.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:07 pm

I have the exact same ticket and am also a 3L. (My unlimited card malfunctioned and I jumped the turnstile instead of waiting) I was a little nervous about it as well so I researched it. There are 2 things that the NYPD can give you for a fare jump: 1. Theft of services or 2. Fare evasion. The first one is a misdemeanor and the second one is a civil violation i.e. a parking ticket. If you were given fare evasion the cop did cut you a break since it is nothing more than the nuisance of having to pay a fine to TAB (Transit Authority Bureau). Make sure your fine is paid because if not it could be a big problem.

On whether to disclose I asked my ethics professor and he said the NY Bar has a catchall provision at the end and that is where this should be disclosed. He said it wouldn't be a big deal but it should be disclosed because the cardinal sin on the bar application is not to disclose. So I am going to disclose and have been told it won't hold up the application or any other negative consequences.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:21 pm

But did you disclose it to your law school? Of course it's paid. Honestly, even if the fine were a $100 a month for eternity I'd be fine with that (not that I'm rich). My concern is not passing for an app discrepancy.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:21 pm

But did you disclose it to your law school? Of course it's paid. Honestly, even if the fine were a $100 a month for eternity I'd be fine with that (not that I'm rich). My concern is not passing for an app discrepancy. I did find that law a few days ago when I researched it. You seem to have a pretty good defense, which I do not. It's crazy they ticketed you if you had the monthly. My understanding is the whole purpose of the system (at least initially) is to be able to run people's ID's who may be felons but who they have no other reason to suspect. I guess more recently it became a viable money making tool to boost profits from monthly card holders.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:43 pm

Mine happened this summer so I was already in law school, but it is not criminal in nature and I couldn't imagine a law school app asking about civil violations.

Also, yea it sucked to pay for an unlimited but I talked to the cop for 15 minutes after and he said that fighting it was a waste of time since the conviction rate is 90%+. But he also explained how they will give the misdemeanor to people who are a pain in the ass or just clearly don't bother to try to pay. (So you did get really lucky)

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:49 pm

Were you an SA? I just can't picture a person in a suit and briefcase jumping a turnstile. It's normally teenagers, and it's shitty they get records for it. If anything you and me should get the misdemeanors rather than kids trying to go to school. I'm sure the enforcement poses some major equal protection issues. When I reflect on my pre-becoming boring years it's ridiculous how nice police were to me. The fact I don't have a record indicates everything wrong with police enforcement.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Mine happened this summer so I was already in law school, but it is not criminal in nature and I couldn't imagine a law school app asking about civil violations.

Also, yea it sucked to pay for an unlimited but I talked to the cop for 15 minutes after and he said that fighting it was a waste of time since the conviction rate is 90%+. But he also explained how they will give the misdemeanor to people who are a pain in the ass or just clearly don't bother to try to pay. (So you did get really lucky)

Were you an SA? I just can't picture a person in a suit and briefcase jumping a turnstile. It's normally teenagers, and it's shitty they get records for it. If anything you and me should get the misdemeanors rather than kids trying to go to school. I'm sure the enforcement poses some major equal protection issues.


Yea SA, it malfunctioned and at the same time my train pulled up so I made a stupid choice.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:55 pm

sorry didnt mean to quote you. did you tell your school? will the bar not care about the discrepancy? linguistically there is no discrepancy, but thematically there may be.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:sorry didnt mean to quote you. did you tell your school? will the bar not care about the discrepancy? linguistically there is no discrepancy, but thematically there may be.


I didn't but every app has different language. My school's is this: "Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offense, or is any charge now pending against you for any crime other than a traffic violation?" There is no talk of civil violations only criminal violations which this clearly isn't.

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BVest
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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby BVest » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I couldn't imagine a law school app asking about civil violations.


Don't use your imagination. Look at it to see what it says.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:18 pm

I think we may go to the same school based off that language. I guess I lucked out going to that one. I honestly forgot about it completely for years. I know it's a civil violation, but I guess it seems like a bigger deal than speeding because i could see anybody speeding. fare evasion is kinda like theft.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:20 pm

Just amend law school app with letter saying you forgot this, then also include it on your bar. No one cares. /endthread

Also cute for saying "don't quote." Like you are hiding a real crime. People give less of a shit for pissing in public, minor in possession, other misdemeanors. I think you're over thinking this.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:43 pm

hey, I have recently been cited for fare evasion. In nyc you just have to pay a fine. I still have the option of disputing it but I don't know if I should. My question is does this show on background checks? It's a civil violation. I would appreciate it if anyone can speak from experience and even better if it happened to you in nyc. Thank you so much!

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:57 pm

Theft of services is a misdemeanor in NYC. It's possible you were only cited for a civil violation, but it's also possible that you were cited for a crime (even if you only received a summons). You really need to talk to a criminal lawyer before you do anything else.

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Good Guy Gaud
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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Good Guy Gaud » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:10 pm

I think the best practice when it comes to C&F issues is to disclose, disclose, disclose. In my experience, most things that occurred a long time ago (decade should surely be sufficient) usually won't come back to bite you if you (1) disclose the issue and (2) haven't had any other, similar run-ins since. My C&F application had issues that were much worse and I was able to pass given my full disclosure and the gap in time between when the events occurred and when I was applying for admission. (Obvs, my experiences were unique to me but hopefully they will calm your nerves at least a little)

That being said, you should contact the admissions office to discuss the issue with them. Contacting an attorney that handles C&F issues regularly is also a good idea if you still have concerns after speaking with admissions.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby dudders » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:23 pm

If the question asks about "arrests" and you were NOT arrested, you don't have to disclose a fare evasion citation ... at least not for that question.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:51 pm

Can you update what happened after talking to the school?
Shall this be regarded as "minor traffic violations" that law school apps don't ask you to include specifically?
Thank you!!!

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:51 pm

Can you update what happened after talking to the school?
Shall this be regarded as "minor traffic violations" that law school apps don't ask you to include specifically?
Thank you!!!

mvp99
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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby mvp99 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:58 pm

has anyone card malfunctioned and charged the fare twice? has happened to me twice

Sgtpeppernyc
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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Sgtpeppernyc » Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:25 pm

10 years ago won't hurt you much. I work with someone who hopped on an NYC Select Bus without paying, and within the previous year. They flagged his application (NY), but they did not ding him for it. Note that the bar doesn't do a background check - it's incumbent on the applicant to disclose, but you'd be an idiot to ever risk the result of nondisclosure.

Regarding law school applications, they (again, my knowledge is limited to New York) only look at the application that you submitted for the law school you actually went to. If you followed the letter of the application, you should be fine (and if you did it, you can disclose after the fact). Keep in mind that between the age of the ticket and the minor nature of it, I wouldn't worry too much.

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:50 pm

Sgtpeppernyc wrote:10 years ago won't hurt you much. I work with someone who hopped on an NYC Select Bus without paying, and within the previous year. They flagged his application (NY), but they did not ding him for it. Note that the bar doesn't do a background check - it's incumbent on the applicant to disclose, but you'd be an idiot to ever risk the result of nondisclosure.

Regarding law school applications, they (again, my knowledge is limited to New York) only look at the application that you submitted for the law school you actually went to. If you followed the letter of the application, you should be fine (and if you did it, you can disclose after the fact). Keep in mind that between the age of the ticket and the minor nature of it, I wouldn't worry too much.


What do you mean by "flagged his application"?

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Re: C&F Question: Fare Evasion

Postby Sgtpeppernyc » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:51 pm

ArtistOfManliness wrote:
Sgtpeppernyc wrote:10 years ago won't hurt you much. I work with someone who hopped on an NYC Select Bus without paying, and within the previous year. They flagged his application (NY), but they did not ding him for it. Note that the bar doesn't do a background check - it's incumbent on the applicant to disclose, but you'd be an idiot to ever risk the result of nondisclosure.

Regarding law school applications, they (again, my knowledge is limited to New York) only look at the application that you submitted for the law school you actually went to. If you followed the letter of the application, you should be fine (and if you did it, you can disclose after the fact). Keep in mind that between the age of the ticket and the minor nature of it, I wouldn't worry too much.


What do you mean by "flagged his application"?


When you go through C&F in New York, they do it in large groups alphabetically, but then anyone who wasn't rejected outright but had a flag of some sort on their application (think minor things like speeding tickets) are held until the end because they may take a bit longer. I know two people that had this - 1 for a few recent speeding tickets and one for the bus thing. Both got through without much trouble.




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