Top Law Schools

Anonymous User wrote:

thisiswater wrote:I'm a little surprised to see how well regarded Hayboo is in this thread. Are they really considered top tier?

They have a neat culture, pay well, and have a pretty good billable hour requirement and work/life balance. And if you're lucky enough to be in their IP group, you can be at their Richardson satellite office, which is supposedly much more relaxed and feels like a small firm.

Yeah, I know a litigator who could have chosen any Dallas firm and is at Hayboo

Never been to BB Houston, but did have interactions with BB Dallas Corporate associates and partners a little while back during recruiting and callbacks. Based on that interaction, if you guys are saying BB Dallas is a lot better socially than Houston, I can only imagine how awful and robotic those Houston associates are.

To the OP: You are probably told that firms pay "market." However, the compensation structures at all these firms is a little different. Ask specific questions about them. The raises can be different, some can use deferred compensation, some have different minimum hour requirements, and some pay completely different bonuses. Can mean the difference of potentially multiple 10's of thousands of dollars by the time you are a midlevel.

HayBoo is terrible in all respects. Have fun being penalized for not reaching 2,000 billables as junior (which is entirely out of your control) and being paid below market (i.e. less than 160k) because of that during your first and second year.

Anonymous User wrote:HayBoo is terrible in all respects. Have fun being penalized for not reaching 2,000 billables as junior (which is entirely out of your control) and being paid below market (i.e. less than 160k) because of that during your first and second year.

Would you explain this further?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:HayBoo is terrible in all respects. Have fun being penalized for not reaching 2,000 billables as junior (which is entirely out of your control) and being paid below market (i.e. less than 160k) because of that during your first and second year.

Would you explain this further?

I second this.. do tell

Without getting into too much, ask them about holdbacks in salary for failure to reach 2k hours and how/if you ever get back to market after that. I hated this because it is not really an associate's fault if they can't hit budget hours because the firm does not have enough work. This is true even for associate with good reviews.

Think I overstated that it was a terrible place; it's not. It has its pros (nice people for the most part) and is a good place to be if you want Big Law and don't really have any other options. With that being said, if you have options to go to a bigger national firm in Dallas, I would do it because the compensation structures at V50 firms are much better from what I know/have heard from friends.

That's all the info I am really willing to give, but just be perceptive and inquiring during interviews (just frame the question correctly). The interviewers will appreciate that you aren't asking fluffy b.s. questions.

Anonymous User wrote:Without getting into too much, ask them about holdbacks in salary for failure to reach 2k hours and how/if you ever get back to market after that. I hated this because it is not really an associate's fault if they can't hit budget hours because the firm does not have enough work. This is true even for associate with good reviews.

Think I overstated that it was a terrible place; it's not. It has its pros (nice people for the most part) and is a good place to be if you want Big Law and don't really have any other options. With that being said, if you have options to go to a bigger national firm in Dallas, I would do it because the compensation structures at V50 firms are much better from what I know/have heard from friends.

That's all the info I am really willing to give, but just be perceptive and inquiring during interviews (just frame the question correctly). The interviewers will appreciate that you aren't asking fluffy b.s. questions.

Maybe I misread what you said, but I earlier read you as saying the firm drops their associates below 160K for failing to meet the billable requirement. The ATL article on the firm from January says associates below 2000 get a pay raise of 5K, which was the old Texas scale, rather than the NYC pay scale: http://abovethelaw.com/2015/01/associat ... d-boone/2/

Is the ATL article saying something wrong? Or did I just misunderstand what you said? Thanks for the insight!

Anonymous User wrote:Never been to BB Houston, but did have interactions with BB Dallas Corporate associates and partners a little while back during recruiting and callbacks. Based on that interaction, if you guys are saying BB Dallas is a lot better socially than Houston, I can only imagine how awful and robotic those Houston associates are.

BB is a most bizarre and backward place. It is definitely a place to go if you are completely socially awkward and would like to be around other socially awkward people. They are also not doing very well as most of their rainmakers left and so the firm is struggling to survive in my opinion (and not doing a very good job of it).

Source: Current BB Houston associate.

Gunnnars wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Never been to BB Houston, but did have interactions with BB Dallas Corporate associates and partners a little while back during recruiting and callbacks. Based on that interaction, if you guys are saying BB Dallas is a lot better socially than Houston, I can only imagine how awful and robotic those Houston associates are.

BB is a most bizarre and backward place. It is definitely a place to go if you are completely socially awkward and would like to be around other socially awkward people. They are also not doing very well as most of their rainmakers left and so the firm is struggling to survive in my opinion (and not doing a very good job of it).

Source: Current BB Houston associate.

Why wouldn't you lateral then?

Where did all the rainmakers go?

I'm guessing mostly Latham. And some STB/Sidley.

Can't speak to any rainmaker exodus, but BB is doing fine: http://www.law360.com/articles/618425/b ... -deal-flow

cappuccino1 wrote:Can't speak to any rainmaker exodus, but BB is doing fine: http://www.law360.com/articles/618425/b ... -deal-flow

Dewey reported revenue increases in 2011 also... it would be ignorant to base an opinion on the health of a firm solely on a single year's revenue number. But I guess I could just be troll lying to you also...

Gunnnars wrote:

cappuccino1 wrote:Can't speak to any rainmaker exodus, but BB is doing fine: http://www.law360.com/articles/618425/b ... -deal-flow

Dewey reported revenue increases in 2011 also... it would be ignorant to base an opinion on the health of a firm solely on a single year's revenue number. But I guess I could just be troll lying to you also...

Genuinely curious as to why you have such negative things to say about Baker Botts despite working there. Not that I don't believe you, but I'm wondering why you don't gtfo in that case. Since you're working at a top firm in TX, you presumably have options to lateral to other Houston firms, right?

Anonymous User wrote:

Gunnnars wrote:

cappuccino1 wrote:Can't speak to any rainmaker exodus, but BB is doing fine: http://www.law360.com/articles/618425/b ... -deal-flow

Dewey reported revenue increases in 2011 also... it would be ignorant to base an opinion on the health of a firm solely on a single year's revenue number. But I guess I could just be troll lying to you also...

Genuinely curious as to why you have such negative things to say about Baker Botts despite working there. Not that I don't believe you, but I'm wondering why you don't gtfo in that case. Since you're working at a top firm in TX, you presumably have options to lateral to other Houston firms, right?

I would assume every person (partner and associate) is currently actively seeking a life raft.

Gunnnars wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Gunnnars wrote:

cappuccino1 wrote:Can't speak to any rainmaker exodus, but BB is doing fine: http://www.law360.com/articles/618425/b ... -deal-flow

Dewey reported revenue increases in 2011 also... it would be ignorant to base an opinion on the health of a firm solely on a single year's revenue number. But I guess I could just be troll lying to you also...

Genuinely curious as to why you have such negative things to say about Baker Botts despite working there. Not that I don't believe you, but I'm wondering why you don't gtfo in that case. Since you're working at a top firm in TX, you presumably have options to lateral to other Houston firms, right?

I would assume every person (partner and associate) is currently actively seeking a life raft.

Is this a BB-specific thing, or are other Houston firms also in trouble? Curious because I was choosing between BB and some other place in Houston for my SA and ended up going with a different firm (mainly for fit reasons). Do you know how V&E, Latham, Kirkland, and Simpson are doing?

The Dewey-BB comp is scary, and I can't really see it being that bad since BB is a Texas institution. But you obviously know more than I do.

Anonymous User wrote:

Gunnnars wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Gunnnars wrote: Dewey reported revenue increases in 2011 also... it would be ignorant to base an opinion on the health of a firm solely on a single year's revenue number. But I guess I could just be troll lying to you also...

Genuinely curious as to why you have such negative things to say about Baker Botts despite working there. Not that I don't believe you, but I'm wondering why you don't gtfo in that case. Since you're working at a top firm in TX, you presumably have options to lateral to other Houston firms, right?

I would assume every person (partner and associate) is currently actively seeking a life raft.

Is this a BB-specific thing, or are other Houston firms also in trouble? Curious because I was choosing between BB and some other place in Houston for my SA and ended up going with a different firm (mainly for fit reasons). Do you know how V&E, Latham, Kirkland, and Simpson are doing?

The Dewey-BB comp is scary, and I can't really see it being that bad since BB is a Texas institution. But you obviously know more than I do.

I would not worry too much about that. Th revenue is there, and the offices of the big Texas firms have maintained their size since the recession. Every firm has lost some partners to the new players in Texas (Latham, Kirkland, Simpson) and all three of those offices are growing (though possibly more slowly with the pull back in oil prices.

Given the leverage, reputation, client base, revenue, and general space in the market that BB occupies, I have a strong feeling that Mr. Gunnnars here is suffering from some form of sour grapes. Dont know too many ppl there, but I highly doubt that "every person is currently actively seeking a life raft."

Anyone have info on GDC Dallas in terms of culture/dealflow/exit opps?

It's GDC, so your exit opps after a couple year are going to be as good or better than any other associate in Dallas.

Associate friend who is there says culture is intellectual and family-oriented.

GDC is definitely top-tier corporate for Dallas and probably has the best corporate practice of any "national" firms in Dallas.

What do y'all think about the published revenue and profit numbers (below)for Texas firms and how it impacts your thoughts on firms in Dallas.

"Four of the seven highest revenue per lawyer firms – Gibson Dunn, King & Spalding, Latham & Watkins and Sidley Austin – had no office at all or only a miniscule presence in Texas in 2009. The 349 Texas-based lawyers at those four firm law firms generated more than $362 million in revenues in 2014, according to The Texas Lawbook financial survey.

“The elite law firms are doing so much better than the rest,” said John Wilmouth, a senior client advisor with Citi’s private banking law firm group.

Legal industry analysts almost unanimously agree that those four non-Texas based firms, plus Dallas-based Akin Gump and Houston-based Baker Botts and Vinson & Elkins, are the “elite” firms dominating the aristocracy of the Texas legal marketplace, at least when it comes to generating revenues and profits.

Texas-based lawyers at Gibson Dunn in Dallas and Latham in Houston generated $200,000 more in revenues in 2014 than their counterparts at Akin Gump and V&E, which are the highest performing Texas-based law firms.

The revenue gap widens to $500,000 per lawyer per year or more when Gibson Dunn and Latham are compared to lawyers at upper mid-market firms such as Haynes and Boone, Locke Lord and Thompson & Knight."