3L Georgetown - Unemployed

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Anonymous User
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3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:16 pm

Hey All,

I transferred into Georgetown from a TTT from NYC. I finished my first year at the TTT in the top 10% of my class. I struck out at OCI at Georgetown and did not receive any love from mass mailing. I finished my 2L year with a 3.5 taking substantive courses, while interning at a government office. For 2L summer I got a paying job working for a law firm in DC as a law clerk. I also completed another separate internship with a federal judge in the Fall. I have mass mailed over 200 firms in the NY area but have not received one request for an interview as of yet. I just started mass mailing two weeks ago. Before then, during fall and summer I would just apply to firms that we're hiring 3Ls on symplicity.

I really don't know what more I could be doing. Is it me or is the market just that bad?


Any constructive advice would be appreciated.

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey All,

I transferred into Georgetown from a TTT from NYC. I finished my first year at the TTT in the top 10% of my class. I struck out at OCI at Georgetown and did not receive any love from mass mailing. I finished my 2L year with a 3.5 taking substantive courses, while interning at a government office. For 2L summer I got a paying job working for a law firm in DC as a law clerk. I also completed another separate internship with a federal judge in the Fall. I have mass mailed over 200 firms in the NY area but have not received one request for an interview as of yet. I just started mass mailing two weeks ago. Before then, during fall and summer I would just apply to firms that we're hiring 3Ls on symplicity.

I really don't know what more I could be doing. Is it me or is the market just that bad?


Any constructive advice would be appreciated.


Are you from New York? Do you have relatives in any other markets? If you are from New York, are you from NYC area, or upstate?

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runinthefront
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby runinthefront » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:20 pm

^ me

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:22 pm

runinthefront wrote:^ me


Born and raised in Long Island. Lived there all my life

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey All,

I transferred into Georgetown from a TTT from NYC. I finished my first year at the TTT in the top 10% of my class. I struck out at OCI at Georgetown and did not receive any love from mass mailing. I finished my 2L year with a 3.5 taking substantive courses, while interning at a government office. For 2L summer I got a paying job working for a law firm in DC as a law clerk. I also completed another separate internship with a federal judge in the Fall. I have mass mailed over 200 firms in the NY area but have not received one request for an interview as of yet. I just started mass mailing two weeks ago. Before then, during fall and summer I would just apply to firms that we're hiring 3Ls on symplicity.

I really don't know what more I could be doing. Is it me or is the market just that bad?


Any constructive advice would be appreciated.


Are you from New York? Do you have relatives in any other markets? If you are from New York, are you from NYC area, or upstate?


Why do you ask?

mvp99
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby mvp99 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:27 pm

Your mistake was probably attending a TTT.

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runinthefront
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby runinthefront » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:41 pm

Do you have any markets where you can sell ties to? I only ask because, and you undoubtedly know this already, if New York isn't biting, why not try other states? I know it's a long-shot but I don't see any other alternatives. Since you've already worked in DC, maybe you should start massmailing the (albeit tougher) DC market?

But, being from GULC, I'm assuming you've already done that, no?

mvp99 wrote:Your mistake was probably attending a TTT.


I mean yeah that's undoubtedly true, but it doesn't change OP's current situation. I feel like residents of NY are slightly disadvantaged since they don't have a secondary market to fall back on

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:57 pm

runinthefront wrote:Do you have any markets where you can sell ties to? I only ask because, and you undoubtedly know this already, if New York isn't biting, why not try other states? I know it's a long-shot but I don't see any other alternatives. Since you've already worked in DC, maybe you should start massmailing the (albeit tougher) DC market?

But, being from GULC, I'm assuming you've already done that, no?

mvp99 wrote:Your mistake was probably attending a TTT.


I mean yeah that's undoubtedly true, but it doesn't change OP's current situation. I feel like residents of NY are slightly disadvantaged since they don't have a secondary market to fall back on


Try NJ and Connecticut. You can argue you want to be in the NY Metro area.

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runinthefront
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby runinthefront » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:59 pm

I'd throw in Delaware too

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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:08 pm

Couple things:
You mentioned you have done mass mailing within the last couple of weeks. I would give it more time before throwing in the towel, 3L hiring is weird and usually slower than 2L hiring. Also, what about the firm you clerked for? I understand they aren't hiring, but maybe some of the people you worked under could give you some suggestions or perhaps throw your name out there to other firms?

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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:12 pm

Shouldn't my performance at Georgetown negate any negative connotations of attending a TTT?

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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:13 pm

I would also say attempt to clerk but I think you would be much more competitive with a couple years of practice. The problem with being from the NYC area is that its so much harder to play the local card. If you were from Louisiana, Mississippi or something it would not surprise me at all if you got a fed dist clerkship.

timmyd
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby timmyd » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Shouldn't my performance at Georgetown negate any negative connotations of attending a TTT?

Yes, I think it should. There are still a few problems, however. Most hiring is done after 1L summer before you have had a chance to prove yourself at your new school. Second, there is just a natural stigma against transfer students from lower ranked schools. I'm a transfer student myself so I have experienced it. It sucks, but there is nothing you can do about it other than make good grades at the new school. Even then, people will say its because of an easier curve or other students stopped trying, which is total bullshit for the most part, in my opinion at least. I have made it my task to take all curved substantive classes at my new school and have done well. Nothing else you can do.

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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:21 pm

timmyd wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Shouldn't my performance at Georgetown negate any negative connotations of attending a TTT?

Yes, I think it should. There are still a few problems, however. Most hiring is done after 1L summer before you have had a chance to prove yourself at your new school. Second, there is just a natural stigma against transfer students from lower ranked schools. I'm a transfer student myself so I have experienced it. It sucks, but there is nothing you can do about it other than make good grades at the new school. Even then, people will say its because of an easier curve or other students stopped trying, which is total bullshit for the most part, in my opinion at least. I have made it my task to take all curved substantive classes at my new school and have done well. Nothing else you can do.


Where did you transfer to? Have you graduated or still in school? Do you have a job yet?

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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:25 pm

Honestly, I've only applied to Vault 100 and other prestigious big law or mid-size firms. I have not sent out any inquiries to smaller law firms with under 100 employees. I'm honestly beginning to panic. I Just need a solid game plan. I haven't mass mailed firms in DC, just because I don't want to live here post grad, but I will do it if all the firms in NY reject me.

Do you think its a good idea to ask the recruiters if I can be considered for a law clerk position instead of an associate position?

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MarkfromWI
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby MarkfromWI » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Shouldn't my performance at Georgetown negate any negative connotations of attending a TTT?


I'm by no means an expert but I've heard that 2L and 3L grades aren't generally weighted as much as 1L grades are by employers. 1L grades are a better measuring stick to some extent because everybody is taking the exact same courses and competing against one another. During 2L and 3L people are scattered in classes and curves are generally easier, not to mention some people tend to let up on the gas after landing a gig at OCI. After 1L it gets less and less like comparing apples to apples.

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runinthefront
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby runinthefront » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Honestly, I've only applied to Vault 100 and other prestigious big law or mid-size firms. I have not sent out any inquiries to smaller law firms with under 100 employees. I'm honestly beginning to panic. I Just need a solid game plan. I haven't mass mailed firms in DC, just because I don't want to live here post grad, but I will do it if all the firms in NY reject me.

Do you think its a good idea to ask the recruiters if I can be considered for a law clerk position instead of an associate position?


You're a transfer student at a school where ~41% of the class ended up at a firm with 100+ lawyers in 2013. Yeah, some of that can be attributable to self-selection, but you had less than a coin-flip's chance at a V100 if you came to GULC originally. As a transfer, your odds significantly decreased. I think you should re-assess your goals and shoot for actually being a practicing lawyer somewhere until something better comes along.

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runinthefront
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby runinthefront » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:34 pm

You also haven't mass-mailed D.C. because you don't want to live there long term? OP, would you take a job as a law clerk in NYC over a job as an actual lawyer in DC?

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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:36 pm

runinthefront wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Honestly, I've only applied to Vault 100 and other prestigious big law or mid-size firms. I have not sent out any inquiries to smaller law firms with under 100 employees. I'm honestly beginning to panic. I Just need a solid game plan. I haven't mass mailed firms in DC, just because I don't want to live here post grad, but I will do it if all the firms in NY reject me.

Do you think its a good idea to ask the recruiters if I can be considered for a law clerk position instead of an associate position?


You're a transfer student at a school where ~41% of the class ended up at a firm with 100+ lawyers in 2013. Yeah, some of that can be attributable to self-selection, but you had less than a coin-flip's chance at a V100 if you came to GULC originally. As a transfer, your odds significantly decreased. I think you should re-assess your goals and shoot for actually being a practicing lawyer somewhere until something better comes along.


You might have a point. But if I came to Georgetown originally, I would have been at least in the top half if not top third, and if we assume that the people who land big law after 1L have at least a B+ or better, then my chances would not be a coin-flip.

timmyd
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby timmyd » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:40 pm

top 5% ttt. top 15-20% AT UT. federal district clerkship than attempting to get appellate (counting on grade bump and hopefully graduating coif)....so I'm gunning this semester.

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runinthefront
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby runinthefront » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:41 pm

ok w/e u say anon

the problem is that your hypothetical does nothing to increase the likelihood of gaining meaningful employment post-grad if you limit yourself to V100 firms

you're at the tail-end of the T14 where, self-selection or not, less than 50% of graduates are ending up in Biglaw.

You came from a TTT--that doesn't go away. Your situation is that you're a TTT transfer targeting biglaw at a school where roughly 40% of the class is getting biglaw. I don't think I might have a point. I think what i'm saying is the reality and you should definitely broaden your mailing but idk let others chime in

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:38 pm

timmyd wrote:top 5% ttt. top 15-20% AT UT. federal district clerkship than attempting to get appellate (counting on grade bump and hopefully graduating coif)....so I'm gunning this semester.


Good for you..keep grinding I hope you get it..

AReasonableMan
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby AReasonableMan » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:55 pm

timmyd wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Shouldn't my performance at Georgetown negate any negative connotations of attending a TTT?

Yes, I think it should. There are still a few problems, however. Most hiring is done after 1L summer before you have had a chance to prove yourself at your new school. Second, there is just a natural stigma against transfer students from lower ranked schools. I'm a transfer student myself so I have experienced it. It sucks, but there is nothing you can do about it other than make good grades at the new school. Even then, people will say its because of an easier curve or other students stopped trying, which is total bullshit for the most part, in my opinion at least. I have made it my task to take all curved substantive classes at my new school and have done well. Nothing else you can do.

This is correct. I don't know if they're downplaying your 3.5. I think it's that they downplayed you as a TTT, and the jobs then all fill up. You're then relying on people to get no offered or decide against big law to make use of your 3.5. Maybe a crude analogy, but Butler who made the SB winning play needed enough defensive backs to get hurt to get the opportunity being undrafted. At this point you may want to open the door to applying to a wider array of positions. I wish you the best of luck. From your point of view, I can see how this sucks (you did reasonably as good in LS as you could have from a TTT). TTT's really stack the box against you, but keep fighting.

timmyd
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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby timmyd » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:26 pm

I'll always be a fan of the transfer students. Believe me, if I'm ever in a hiring position, they will be getting a close look. To me ,there's just nothing like crushing your peers in the law school game, even if this peers scored in the 150's on their LSAT. A lot of people won't see it that way and thats just life. OP: you're a solid student of the law and you will be a good lawyer. Keep grinding. Improve your grades and gun for clerkships.

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Re: 3L Georgetown - Unemployed

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:35 pm

Any indications that the legal job market is picking up so that there may be more entry positions available in the near future? It seems the economy is getting better, and big law hiring is on the up. I know Georgetown was hitting between 60-70% Big Law pre-recession, according to an interview by the Dean of Admissions, Andy Cornblatt.




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