No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

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Anonymous User
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No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:46 pm

Hi tier 3 here. I have a 4.0 GPA currently. I started part-time (financial reasons) and now am 3 credits behind the class of 2017. I will be taking a summer class, and be well caught up and on schedule w/ my class as Ive been accepted to full time. My school has this annoying &&*@#& condition that you need to be full time to even write on to law review (i understand not grading on, even though its only 3 credits its not apples to apples). I have spoken to the dean, and we are trying to work around it so that I can atleast compete in the writing comp in the spring.

My question is, lets say i gun like hell and maintain my 4.0, (I will likely be trying NYC biglaw and have the best success via mass-mail as our alumni are pretty helpful if were top %ers) will it be a complete turn off that im not on law review if i cant get this thing worked out.

Please any advice would be appreciated. You guys are all awesome. I attribute a ton of my success to TLS and exam taking guides and strategies.

ClubberLang
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby ClubberLang » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:34 pm

To get biglaw from a tier 3, you pretty much need to be pretty much perfect in all other regards, so do whatever you can to get onto law review. If they won't let you on, transfer. Even if they do let you on, you should consider transferring.

catinthewall
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby catinthewall » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:37 pm

Have you considered writing something on your own and getting it published in a law review or journal (can be any journal, not just your school's)? That way, you can still have a publication listed on your resume. Talk to professors; they will be able to guide you.

I know people have done it when their student notes were not selected to be published.

Something to think about...

Anonymous User
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:24 pm

catinthewall wrote:Have you considered writing something on your own and getting it published in a law review or journal (can be any journal, not just your school's)? That way, you can still have a publication listed on your resume. Talk to professors; they will be able to guide you.

I know people have done it when their student notes were not selected to be published.

Something to think about...



I reached out to about 2 biglaw attorneys who said if i keep my grades up they will certainly get me an interview. Do you think even in THIS case law review would be a deal breaker?

Anonymous User
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:38 pm

Not a dealbreaker. Focus on keeping the 4.0. That's your ticket to biglaw.

Also, as others mentioned: Keep that 4.0, then transfer. Your opportunities as a transfer at Harvard, or even CLS/NYU (though with a 4.0 you should be able to transfer to Harvard), are much better than your opportunities if you stay as a 4.0 student at a third-tier school because you'll get in front of every NYC biglaw firm at OCI instead of having to mass mail. (Transferring is less of an advantage if you're already at school in NYC, as most NYC firms do interview on campus at Brooklyn, St. John's, NYLS, etc.)

Anonymous User
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not a dealbreaker. Focus on keeping the 4.0. That's your ticket to biglaw.

Also, as others mentioned: Keep that 4.0, then transfer. Your opportunities as a transfer at Harvard, or even CLS/NYU (though with a 4.0 you should be able to transfer to Harvard), are much better than your opportunities if you stay as a 4.0 student at a third-tier school because you'll get in front of every NYC biglaw firm at OCI instead of having to mass mail. (Transferring is less of an advantage if you're already at school in NYC, as most NYC firms do interview on campus at Brooklyn, St. John's, NYLS, etc.)


Thanks for the help. I think I am going to put out transfer apps as well. But with no doubt (as of now) id love to really stick it out and still land biglaw.

ClubberLang
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby ClubberLang » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
catinthewall wrote:Have you considered writing something on your own and getting it published in a law review or journal (can be any journal, not just your school's)? That way, you can still have a publication listed on your resume. Talk to professors; they will be able to guide you.

I know people have done it when their student notes were not selected to be published.

Something to think about...



I reached out to about 2 biglaw attorneys who said if i keep my grades up they will certainly get me an interview. Do you think even in THIS case law review would be a deal breaker?


Interviews don't equal jobs. Not even close. For a tier 3, converting a screener to a callback is probably like 20 to 1 at best, and even with a 4.0 you look less attractive than a 3.95 with law review, or the hundreds of others who are applying for the same position. I wish you the best, but you really seem to be missing how much of a longshot one of these jobs is from your school. Maybe two or three people in your entire class will get one, and they'll almost certainly be on law review.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:39 pm

ClubberLang wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
catinthewall wrote:Have you considered writing something on your own and getting it published in a law review or journal (can be any journal, not just your school's)? That way, you can still have a publication listed on your resume. Talk to professors; they will be able to guide you.

I know people have done it when their student notes were not selected to be published.

Something to think about...



I reached out to about 2 biglaw attorneys who said if i keep my grades up they will certainly get me an interview. Do you think even in THIS case law review would be a deal breaker?


Interviews don't equal jobs. Not even close. For a tier 3, converting a screener to a callback is probably like 20 to 1 at best, and even with a 4.0 you look less attractive than a 3.95 with law review, or the hundreds of others who are applying for the same position. I wish you the best, but you really seem to be missing how much of a longshot one of these jobs is from your school. Maybe two or three people in your entire class will get one, and they'll almost certainly be on law review.


While I think your 20-1 "at best" is likely a RIDICULOUS statement, based on experiences of others. I appreciate your feedback

Anonymous User
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:38 pm

Publication is probably an alternative option to minimize the lack of law review. Also, Moot Court is another way rebound from no law review I think, especially if you are into litigation.

BigZuck
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby BigZuck » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ClubberLang wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
catinthewall wrote:Have you considered writing something on your own and getting it published in a law review or journal (can be any journal, not just your school's)? That way, you can still have a publication listed on your resume. Talk to professors; they will be able to guide you.

I know people have done it when their student notes were not selected to be published.

Something to think about...



I reached out to about 2 biglaw attorneys who said if i keep my grades up they will certainly get me an interview. Do you think even in THIS case law review would be a deal breaker?


Interviews don't equal jobs. Not even close. For a tier 3, converting a screener to a callback is probably like 20 to 1 at best, and even with a 4.0 you look less attractive than a 3.95 with law review, or the hundreds of others who are applying for the same position. I wish you the best, but you really seem to be missing how much of a longshot one of these jobs is from your school. Maybe two or three people in your entire class will get one, and they'll almost certainly be on law review.


While I think your 20-1 "at best" is likely a RIDICULOUS statement, based on experiences of others. I appreciate your feedback


I had good grades at a school with 40ish% of the class getting big law/federal clerkships and my screener to call back ratio was about 12-1

I don't think 20-1 is necessarily THAT RIDICULOUS

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BearState
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby BearState » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Publication is probably an alternative option to minimize the lack of law review. Also, Moot Court is another way rebound from no law review I think, especially if you are into litigation.


Is there any list of journals that will take note-like submissions from students at any school?

Anonymous User
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:11 pm

ClubberLang wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
catinthewall wrote:Have you considered writing something on your own and getting it published in a law review or journal (can be any journal, not just your school's)? That way, you can still have a publication listed on your resume. Talk to professors; they will be able to guide you.

I know people have done it when their student notes were not selected to be published.

Something to think about...



I reached out to about 2 biglaw attorneys who said if i keep my grades up they will certainly get me an interview. Do you think even in THIS case law review would be a deal breaker?


Interviews don't equal jobs. Not even close. For a tier 3, converting a screener to a callback is probably like 20 to 1 at best, and even with a 4.0 you look less attractive than a 3.95 with law review, or the hundreds of others who are applying for the same position. I wish you the best, but you really seem to be missing how much of a longshot one of these jobs is from your school. Maybe two or three people in your entire class will get one, and they'll almost certainly be on law review.


Not so sure I agree with your 20 to 1 odds...I am a 3L at a tier 3 school in a major market and am top 5% of my class, and got a V10 SA and subsequent offer. Additionally, there are about 25 or so people from my class that also got Biglaw, many of those at V50 or better. I understand that odds are never "good" from tier 2 or 3 schools, but a lot of people make sweeping generalizations that are a bit dramatic.

At my school, if you are top 15-20%, you have a very good shot at Biglaw. Albeit, I do know some people who had 20 screeners and struck out, but most people in the top 20% got very good jobs, with the heavy majority landing Biglaw. But I digress.

In regards to law review, absolutely find a way to write on. Like you, I had a very high GPA after my 1L year, and I was able to leverage it with the threat of transferring to get a full scholarship, including grants for living expenses. Many tier 2 and 3 schools will bend over backwards to keep you there, so I understand your hesitation to transfer. If they don't let you write on or give you a full scholarship (if you don't already have one), threaten to leave. Start gathering materials and professor recommendations to transfer so they know you're not bluffing. They'll be desperate to keep you for their employment stats, which puts you in a very good negotiating position.

Good luck, and I hope you get the opportunity to write on!

ClubberLang
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 11:34 am

Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby ClubberLang » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ClubberLang wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
catinthewall wrote:Have you considered writing something on your own and getting it published in a law review or journal (can be any journal, not just your school's)? That way, you can still have a publication listed on your resume. Talk to professors; they will be able to guide you.

I know people have done it when their student notes were not selected to be published.

Something to think about...



I reached out to about 2 biglaw attorneys who said if i keep my grades up they will certainly get me an interview. Do you think even in THIS case law review would be a deal breaker?


Interviews don't equal jobs. Not even close. For a tier 3, converting a screener to a callback is probably like 20 to 1 at best, and even with a 4.0 you look less attractive than a 3.95 with law review, or the hundreds of others who are applying for the same position. I wish you the best, but you really seem to be missing how much of a longshot one of these jobs is from your school. Maybe two or three people in your entire class will get one, and they'll almost certainly be on law review.


Not so sure I agree with your 20 to 1 odds...I am a 3L at a tier 3 school in a major market and am top 5% of my class, and got a V10 SA and subsequent offer. Additionally, there are about 25 or so people from my class that also got Biglaw, many of those at V50 or better. I understand that odds are never "good" from tier 2 or 3 schools, but a lot of people make sweeping generalizations that are a bit dramatic.

At my school, if you are top 15-20%, you have a very good shot at Biglaw. Albeit, I do know some people who had 20 screeners and struck out, but most people in the top 20% got very good jobs, with the heavy majority landing Biglaw. But I digress.

In regards to law review, absolutely find a way to write on. Like you, I had a very high GPA after my 1L year, and I was able to leverage it with the threat of transferring to get a full scholarship, including grants for living expenses. Many tier 2 and 3 schools will bend over backwards to keep you there, so I understand your hesitation to transfer. If they don't let you write on or give you a full scholarship (if you don't already have one), threaten to leave. Start gathering materials and professor recommendations to transfer so they know you're not bluffing. They'll be desperate to keep you for their employment stats, which puts you in a very good negotiating position.

Good luck, and I hope you get the opportunity to write on!


Sounds like your school places well. This shows all tier 3's are not created equal. I looked at the ABA data for my local tier 3 (Non NYC) and class of 2013 put about 3/160 into big law. If you went to somewhere like Pace, though, the placements were much better. The ratio of screeners to callbacks is not really relevant my point that having two people say they'll give you an interview if you keep your grades up is about the furthest thing from a sure thing you can get, and by not doing EVERYTHING he can do improve his position, OP is doing himself a disservice.

OP- if you don't know about this look here: http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/ . Also you mentioned taking a class over summer. Make sure you do something legal too, as no summer employment may also be a kiss of death for your chances at a 2L SA.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:41 am

Thanks i definitely am going to try my hardest. I am at a tier3 in a major market as well so hoping this saves me. If they cannot budge on the law review write on, I am going to see if i can note on, as they have that option as well. And yes I have legal employment lined up. Thanks for all the help guys.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:31 pm

OP here. It looks like I might not be able to grade on.

2years work experience- college athlete -- if i keep my GPA high do you think itll be enough to "cancel out" the no law review?? Thanks all

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fats provolone
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby fats provolone » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:40 pm

hmm college athlete is worth 3.96 Job Hiring Points, LR (non exec board) is approx 4.311117 by last calculation.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. It looks like I might not be able to grade on.

2years work experience- college athlete -- if i keep my GPA high do you think itll be enough to "cancel out" the no law review?? Thanks all


IMO, the question will be if he/she was not doing law review, why not? and what else did he/she do with her time? so excel in moot court, get secondary journal (if the school has a good one) or something else to say you are not just a book worm who did nothing but study (i.e. can't excel while juggling different things). Also, doing research ahead of time and looking into firms that are not law review whores and networking to get your resume past the HR or junior associate screening resume's for law review would help also. You are in good shape, you just have to think ahead, strategize, and execute. Avoid the temptation to sit on your gpa and hoping things will come to you :)

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: No Law Review, Hurt or NBD

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:24 pm

I def will. I have already started hustling like crazy through reaching out to biglaw alumni. I have a informational meeting set up in a few weeks at a v50. So I'm doing all I can. I really would like to stay and graduate without debt




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