Lateral Move Question

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273179
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Lateral Move Question

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:38 am

For anyone who has lateraled, what is the protocol for giving notice to current firm, passing along your spot on your cases, etc.? Is it your standard 2 weeks' notice? I am on a leanly-staffed case that is going into depositions real soon. I feel like its going to throw a serious wrench into things and people will be very angry if I up and leave now. Any good way of navigating that situation?

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2086
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:40 am

If the place you're going to has any sense, it will have already contacted folks you worked with to make sure you're not some loser. So, in all likelihood, your current employer probably already knows you're leaving (or at least attempting to leave).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273179
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:45 am

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:If the place you're going to has any sense, it will have already contacted folks you worked with to make sure you're not some loser. So, in all likelihood, your current employer probably already knows you're leaving (or at least attempting to leave).


New position isn't set in stone yet. I'm just forward thinking a bit. But you make a good point.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273179
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:53 am

At what point does the new place start putting in calls to references to make sure you aren't a loser? I would like to think its once you already have the offer in hand. And I'm assuming it makes sense to preempt those reference calls by informing people in advance? Wouldn't want that call coming out of nowhere to a partner who is counting on me.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273179
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:At what point does the new place start putting in calls to references to make sure you aren't a loser? I would like to think its once you already have the offer in hand. And I'm assuming it makes sense to preempt those reference calls by informing people in advance? Wouldn't want that call coming out of nowhere to a partner who is counting on me.


When you lateral, you fill out a background form with contact info for a reference at your current employer. On the two laterals that I've made, I've been able to ask them to hold off on contacting my current employer until I've given notice. You'll of course already have an offer in hand, which is contingent on passing your background and conflicts check.

Do not give notice until you pass the conflicts check. From what I've heard, that's the one thing that can get your offer rescinded. You probably have a good idea if you have any problems that would hold you up with the background check.

User avatar
gk101
Posts: 3675
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby gk101 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:13 am

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:If the place you're going to has any sense, it will have already contacted folks you worked with to make sure you're not some loser. So, in all likelihood, your current employer probably already knows you're leaving (or at least attempting to leave).

never really heard of this. In my experience, firms don't contact the employer to ask about the lateral candidates. they usually will do a background check and call your references but that's about it

Anonymous User
Posts: 273179
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:07 pm

I figured that the reference call is really just a formality to confirm that you weren't lying on your resume, aren't a psycho, etc. and that you would already have an offer in hand. That way, you have at least some guarantee (albeit a slightly contingent one) before you are forced to start spreading the news to your chosen references.

The trouble is that the partner for whom I have worked the most is going to be pissed I am leaving, since it is right before deposition time in a leanly-staffed case. I'm the junior guy, so its not like I'm set to take depositions, and senior associate on the case is far more integral, but I can see the partner getting pissed and I'm worried he won't want to be a reference in that scenario.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273179
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:20 pm

In general, how does a lateral interview compare to the interviews you do during the initial recruitment process out of school? I am set to meet with the two top partners in the office (its a secondary market office, so it sounds like its just one round to get a yes/no). Trying to figure out a good plan for attaching the interview, asking good Q's, coming off well, etc. I figure the main points include:

-Why I want to make the change
-Why I want to join up with this firm specifically
-Why the secondary market location is perfect for me (its where I'm from, so thats a pretty easy sell)
-What skills I've gained from my previous position

Any other major things that I'm not considering?

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2086
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:00 pm

gk101 wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:If the place you're going to has any sense, it will have already contacted folks you worked with to make sure you're not some loser. So, in all likelihood, your current employer probably already knows you're leaving (or at least attempting to leave).

never really heard of this. In my experience, firms don't contact the employer to ask about the lateral candidates. they usually will do a background check and call your references but that's about it

I know at least some firms do it. It makes sense to me. You would at least want to confirm the guy isn't about to be fired for cause for downloading kiddie porn at work or something like that.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273179
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:05 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:If the place you're going to has any sense, it will have already contacted folks you worked with to make sure you're not some loser. So, in all likelihood, your current employer probably already knows you're leaving (or at least attempting to leave).



This is terrible and wildly inaccurate advice. We (a big NYC firm) NEVER call a candidate's current employer because we're not total assholes and understand that folks don't want to be outed as shopping for a new gig.

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2086
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:If the place you're going to has any sense, it will have already contacted folks you worked with to make sure you're not some loser. So, in all likelihood, your current employer probably already knows you're leaving (or at least attempting to leave).


This is terrible and wildly inaccurate advice. We (a big NYC firm) NEVER call a candidate's current employer because we're not total assholes and understand that folks don't want to be outed as shopping for a new gig.


That's nice. I overheard my recruiting coordinator verifying employment of one of our lateral candidates a few weeks ago, so I know at least my firm does it. I guess your big NYC firm is just a caring, compassionate place (since that's what big NYC firms are known for, of course).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273179
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:50 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:If the place you're going to has any sense, it will have already contacted folks you worked with to make sure you're not some loser. So, in all likelihood, your current employer probably already knows you're leaving (or at least attempting to leave).


This is terrible and wildly inaccurate advice. We (a big NYC firm) NEVER call a candidate's current employer because we're not total assholes and understand that folks don't want to be outed as shopping for a new gig.


That's nice. I overheard my recruiting coordinator verifying employment of one of our lateral candidates a few weeks ago, so I know at least my firm does it. I guess your big NYC firm is just a caring, compassionate place (since that's what big NYC firms are known for, of course).


Or you're full of shit. What I'm describing is such entrenched NY practice that it makes me question whether you are what you claim to be.

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2086
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:If the place you're going to has any sense, it will have already contacted folks you worked with to make sure you're not some loser. So, in all likelihood, your current employer probably already knows you're leaving (or at least attempting to leave).


This is terrible and wildly inaccurate advice. We (a big NYC firm) NEVER call a candidate's current employer because we're not total assholes and understand that folks don't want to be outed as shopping for a new gig.


That's nice. I overheard my recruiting coordinator verifying employment of one of our lateral candidates a few weeks ago, so I know at least my firm does it. I guess your big NYC firm is just a caring, compassionate place (since that's what big NYC firms are known for, of course).


Or you're full of shit. What I'm describing is such entrenched NY practice that it makes me question whether you are what you claim to be.


...and what is it that I claim to be?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273179
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:48 am

Also never heard of a firm contacting your current employer.

If they are just verifying employment couldn't they just look up your bio on the firm website?

If people knew they would get outed for job shopping, I don't think anyone would do it unless termination from the current gig was inevitable anyways.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22821
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:56 am

At what stage was the verification? I can see a firm calling after an offer has been extended and/or accepted, but during the interview process seems less likely. Or could it have been verification of a previous job, but not the current job?

Or different firms have different policies, of course.

User avatar
glitched
Posts: 1040
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 9:50 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby glitched » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:36 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:If the place you're going to has any sense, it will have already contacted folks you worked with to make sure you're not some loser. So, in all likelihood, your current employer probably already knows you're leaving (or at least attempting to leave).


This is terrible and wildly inaccurate advice. We (a big NYC firm) NEVER call a candidate's current employer because we're not total assholes and understand that folks don't want to be outed as shopping for a new gig.


That's nice. I overheard my recruiting coordinator verifying employment of one of our lateral candidates a few weeks ago, so I know at least my firm does it. I guess your big NYC firm is just a caring, compassionate place (since that's what big NYC firms are known for, of course).


You overheard your recruiting coordinator verifying employment? Are you next door or something? This is just bizarre to me.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273179
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:52 pm

glitched wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:If the place you're going to has any sense, it will have already contacted folks you worked with to make sure you're not some loser. So, in all likelihood, your current employer probably already knows you're leaving (or at least attempting to leave).


This is terrible and wildly inaccurate advice. We (a big NYC firm) NEVER call a candidate's current employer because we're not total assholes and understand that folks don't want to be outed as shopping for a new gig.


That's nice. I overheard my recruiting coordinator verifying employment of one of our lateral candidates a few weeks ago, so I know at least my firm does it. I guess your big NYC firm is just a caring, compassionate place (since that's what big NYC firms are known for, of course).


You overheard your recruiting coordinator verifying employment? Are you next door or something? This is just bizarre to me.


It's obvious bullshit. No one who had worked in biglaw for more than a couple of years would even lie that way, since if you've had friends go through the lateralling process you generally learn how it goes. It benefits no firm to have a reputation as a place where if you sniff around an offer, they'll ice you at your current employer. No one would interview.

I've heard of unscrupulous cold-call type recruiters snitching on their clients, but never other firms. It simply does not happen, and purported V20 associate is either not being truthful or is just astonishingly clueless / not as involved in recruiting as he makes himself out to be.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:59 pm

There is no way firms call the current employer about a potential lateral without express permission. No way.

User avatar
fats provolone
Posts: 7125
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby fats provolone » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:28 pm

we're talking about quinn here. anything is possible

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2086
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:09 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:At what stage was the verification? I can see a firm calling after an offer has been extended and/or accepted, but during the interview process seems less likely. Or could it have been verification of a previous job, but not the current job?

Or different firms have different policies, of course.


Yeah, it might have been after offer acceptance. I hadn't thought about that, but it freaked me out enough that I'm not just going to trust that these big, friendly biglaw firms aren't screwing associates over behind their backs. Have we all forgotten the Great Lathaming?

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2086
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:11 pm

romothesavior wrote:There is no way firms call the current employer about a potential lateral without express permission. No way.


I mean, I know it's against the law in many states (like California) to say bad stuff about former employees, but it's 100% legal to ask whether someone 1) is currently working somewhere and 2) if not, whether or not the employer would take the employee back.

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2086
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's obvious bullshit. No one who had worked in biglaw for more than a couple of years would even lie that way, since if you've had friends go through the lateralling process you generally learn how it goes. It benefits no firm to have a reputation as a place where if you sniff around an offer, they'll ice you at your current employer. No one would interview.

I've heard of unscrupulous cold-call type recruiters snitching on their clients, but never other firms. It simply does not happen, and purported V20 associate is either not being truthful or is just astonishingly clueless / not as involved in recruiting as he makes himself out to be.


:lol:

Jesus fucking Christ, you are really pissed about this, aren't you?

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:14 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:There is no way firms call the current employer about a potential lateral without express permission. No way.


I mean, I know it's against the law in many states (like California) to say bad stuff about former employees, but it's 100% legal to ask whether someone 1) is currently working somewhere and 2) if not, whether or not the employer would take the employee back.

Yeah, a previous employer, not their current employer. No way in hell a major law firm would screw over a potential applicant like that. Looks like you got a little confused as to what was going on in that call, dude.

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2086
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:16 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:There is no way firms call the current employer about a potential lateral without express permission. No way.

I mean, I know it's against the law in many states (like California) to say bad stuff about former employees, but it's 100% legal to ask whether someone 1) is currently working somewhere and 2) if not, whether or not the employer would take the employee back.

Yeah, a previous employer, not their current employer. No way in hell a major law firm would screw over a potential applicant like that. Looks like you got a little confused as to what was going on in that call, dude.

Eh, there's no proof one way or another as to what was going on, and I'm cynical enough not to just blindly accept all the bullshit "best practices" that firms are supposedly STRICTLY adhering to. There are benefits to asking former employers about former employees, which is why almost every other field of employment requires references.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Lateral Move Question

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:20 pm

Except it would be horrible for their reputation.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.