C+ at a Lower T14

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C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:17 pm

Got a C+ at a Lower T14. Really disappointed in myself but not much I can do now. I did well enough in my other classes to keep my GPA at ~3.25. The class with the bad grade is one that would appear to be strongly related to my preferred practice area, but I've read about how 1L classes aren't indicative of your ability to perform in a certain practice area. What matters is what the recruiting attorneys think though. I'm hoping they won't discount me just because of this grade.

Assuming I have average interviewing skills and my GPA stays about the same, any guesses on how this will affect me for OCI? I'm worried about this ugly mark on my transcript locking me out of biglaw or good 1L summer jobs. My goal is to work in basically any market-paying biglaw job in NY or CA.

Thanks for reading, I appreciate any input.

mvp99
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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby mvp99 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Got a C+ at a Lower T14. Really disappointed in myself but not much I can do now. I did well enough in my other classes to keep my GPA at ~3.25. The class with the bad grade is one that would appear to be strongly related to my preferred practice area, but I've read about how 1L classes aren't indicative of your ability to perform in a certain practice area. What matters is what the recruiting attorneys think though. I'm hoping they won't discount me just because of this grade.

Assuming I have average interviewing skills and my GPA stays about the same, any guesses on how this will affect me for OCI? I'm worried about this ugly mark on my transcript locking me out of biglaw or good 1L summer jobs. My goal is to work in basically any market-paying biglaw job in NY or CA.

Thanks for reading, I appreciate any input.


Bold: did you over study? Sometimes you overstudy and you mind gets filled with unnecessary details... firms generally don't care about specific courses. they care about your overall GPA.

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:28 pm

One grade won't matter--the 3.25 cumulative may hurt more depending on the school's curve. Attended a T100 and received a C+ first semester to go along with the rest As and A-'s. Debated dropping out, ended up with a federal clerkship. Focus on pulling it up this semester and proving that the one grade was just an outlier, and prepare to be asked about what happened in that class during interviews.

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:31 pm

mvp99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Got a C+ at a Lower T14. Really disappointed in myself but not much I can do now. I did well enough in my other classes to keep my GPA at ~3.25. The class with the bad grade is one that would appear to be strongly related to my preferred practice area, but I've read about how 1L classes aren't indicative of your ability to perform in a certain practice area. What matters is what the recruiting attorneys think though. I'm hoping they won't discount me just because of this grade.

Assuming I have average interviewing skills and my GPA stays about the same, any guesses on how this will affect me for OCI? I'm worried about this ugly mark on my transcript locking me out of biglaw or good 1L summer jobs. My goal is to work in basically any market-paying biglaw job in NY or CA.

Thanks for reading, I appreciate any input.


Bold: did you over study? Sometimes you overstudy and you mind gets filled with unnecessary details... firms generally don't care about specific courses. they care about your overall GPA.


On the contrary, I didn't study for finals enough. But out of all my classes I was most prepared for that one and even walked out of the test feeling good. Law students know how that can turn out though. Guessing I got screwed in the multiple-choice section. Stupid me. C+ would probably put me at the bottom 1 or 2 people in that course.

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:One grade won't matter--the 3.25 cumulative may hurt more depending on the school's curve. Attended a T100 and received a C+ first semester to go along with the rest As and A-'s. Debated dropping out, ended up with a federal clerkship. Focus on pulling it up this semester and proving that the one grade was just an outlier, and prepare to be asked about what happened in that class during interviews.


Congrats on your positive outcome! Median is probably about 3.35, perhaps a tiny bit higher. Any suggestions on good things to say in response to those questions?

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:42 pm

Op, what is your work experience?

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Br3v
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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Br3v » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:42 pm

Just have an answer ready for interviews. Bad test day but you enjoy the topic, if true, would seem to be a good start. I would second that firms probably just care about overall GPA. Having a C+ might sting a little because it may stand out, but as I said, just have an answer ready. Also, if you improve your GPA this semester that would help your credibility incredibly. So do that.

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Op, what is your work experience?


OP here, K-JD.

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:49 pm

Br3v wrote:Just have an answer ready for interviews. Bad test day but you enjoy the topic, if true, would seem to be a good start. I would second that firms probably just care about overall GPA. Having a C+ might sting a little because it may stand out, but as I said, just have an answer ready. Also, if you improve your GPA this semester that would help your credibility incredibly. So do that.


Ok thanks. Definitely feeling scared about how I'll do.

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:One grade won't matter--the 3.25 cumulative may hurt more depending on the school's curve. Attended a T100 and received a C+ first semester to go along with the rest As and A-'s. Debated dropping out, ended up with a federal clerkship. Focus on pulling it up this semester and proving that the one grade was just an outlier, and prepare to be asked about what happened in that class during interviews.


Congrats on your positive outcome! Median is probably about 3.35, perhaps a tiny bit higher. Any suggestions on good things to say in response to those questions?


Take ownership for it. You're graded on a curve, so obviously everyone took the same test and most did better. Employers understand that you may miss an issue despite having a solid grasp of the material. I think the key is to stress that you went to office hours, figured out what went wrong, and learned from it. Obviously this narrative works better if your grades improve next semester.

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:16 am

In a similar position as OP. What about how to handle it for 1L jobs? Good idea to include an addendum or does that draw attention to it?

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby mvp99 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:In a similar position as OP. What about how to handle it for 1L jobs? Good idea to include an addendum or does that draw attention to it?


No. What would you explain in an addendum anyway?

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:47 am

mvp99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:In a similar position as OP. What about how to handle it for 1L jobs? Good idea to include an addendum or does that draw attention to it?


No. What would you explain in an addendum anyway?


CSO recommended it to point out that you're addressing the issue and it doesn't reflect your abilities. I'm hesitant to do that because in the end it's just more time spent on a negative.

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:58 am

Was in the almost exact same spot last year. Lower t-14 got a 2.7 in a class 1st semester and had a 3.27 overall. Did better in spring, got my cumulative up to a 3.35 and had multiple v100 offers through oci. Don't panic and meet with that professor to see what went wrong.

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:In a similar position as OP. What about how to handle it for 1L jobs? Good idea to include an addendum or does that draw attention to it?


Same anon who just posted above. Don't make an addendum just apply like normal. It really isn't the end of the world, just make sure you take ownership of it if asked in an interview and don't try to make an excuse like blaming the professor or that you were sick or whatever. I usually was just straight up like "I didn't study enough for that final."

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby rpupkin » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mvp99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:In a similar position as OP. What about how to handle it for 1L jobs? Good idea to include an addendum or does that draw attention to it?


No. What would you explain in an addendum anyway?


CSO recommended it to point out that you're addressing the issue and it doesn't reflect your abilities.

Don't do this.

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Desert Fox
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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:57 pm

a job application addendum. Just fucking lol. Have ur mom write me a note.

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AreJay711
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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mvp99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Got a C+ at a Lower T14. Really disappointed in myself but not much I can do now. I did well enough in my other classes to keep my GPA at ~3.25. The class with the bad grade is one that would appear to be strongly related to my preferred practice area, but I've read about how 1L classes aren't indicative of your ability to perform in a certain practice area. What matters is what the recruiting attorneys think though. I'm hoping they won't discount me just because of this grade.

Assuming I have average interviewing skills and my GPA stays about the same, any guesses on how this will affect me for OCI? I'm worried about this ugly mark on my transcript locking me out of biglaw or good 1L summer jobs. My goal is to work in basically any market-paying biglaw job in NY or CA.

Thanks for reading, I appreciate any input.


Bold: did you over study? Sometimes you overstudy and you mind gets filled with unnecessary details... firms generally don't care about specific courses. they care about your overall GPA.


On the contrary, I didn't study for finals enough. But out of all my classes I was most prepared for that one and even walked out of the test feeling good. Law students know how that can turn out though. Guessing I got screwed in the multiple-choice section. Stupid me. C+ would probably put me at the bottom 1 or 2 people in that course.


You probably over-studied. I found a pretty strong negative correlation between time put into a class and my grade.* That's dead serious. The one class I booked was one I studied less than 10 total hours for (all my friends were in it and we had retroactive pass/fails at Michigan). The classes I did worst in -- Contracts and Antitrust -- I knew like the back of my hand. Law school exams are about mental flexibility and spewing out bullshit quickly, which is easier if you're grasping for straws.

Edit: An example of this -- My buddy came up with this idea about smuggling Snowden out of an embassy in a diplomatic mail bag in our stupid mandatory transnat class because he didn't know shit about the law. No one who actually has some law shit to write on an exam would say that. He got an A- I think.

* Except my last semester. There is a tipping point at which you just know too little to be even moderately coherent.

Anonymous User
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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:57 pm

Original OP here. Got my grades back for second semester and was able to bring my GPA up from ~3.25 to right under 3.4. The class that I got a C+ in first semester, we take two semesters of it and this time I got a B (I guess it's just not my subject area). How am I looking now? I would appreciate any thoughts. Not picky about which firms I go for as long as they pay market.

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rpupkin
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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby rpupkin » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Original OP here. Got my grades back for second semester and was able to bring my GPA up from ~3.25 to right under 3.4. The class that I got a C+ in first semester, we take two semesters of it and this time I got a B (I guess it's just not my subject area). How am I looking now? I would appreciate any thoughts. Not picky about which firms I go for as long as they pay market.

What's median at your school? If your 3.4 puts you at or above median, you're probably fine if you bid smart and interview well. Most firms won't care about the single C+.

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runinthefront
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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby runinthefront » Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:Original OP here. Got my grades back for second semester and was able to bring my GPA up from ~3.25 to right under 3.4. The class that I got a C+ in first semester, we take two semesters of it and this time I got a B (I guess it's just not my subject area). How am I looking now? I would appreciate any thoughts. Not picky about which firms I go for as long as they pay market.


dude if you're at cornell, you're basically median so I would chill

and since cornell grade inflates pretty bad you're definitely median or better everywhere else

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:06 pm

OP here. 3.4 would be above the advertised median, but below the actual median I believe.

I just worry about that C+ closing doors. The general feeling at my school is that "Biglaw is pretty attainable unless you have a C or something" and T-14 people talk about how "At my school a C is very rare and only handed out discretionarily" (and I'm assuming they meant to include C+s as well). If what you say about most firms not caring is true, then that makes me feel better. Like I said I'm not picky about prestige and will bid to maximize my chances of an offer. If I wanted to be picky, I should have gotten better grades.

Does anyone else have thoughts on the limitations imposed by a C+?

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby runthetrap1990 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. 3.4 would be above the advertised median, but below the actual median I believe.

I just worry about that C+ closing doors. The general feeling at my school is that "Biglaw is pretty attainable unless you have a C or something" and T-14 people talk about how "At my school a C is very rare and only handed out discretionarily" (and I'm assuming they meant to include C+s as well). If what you say about most firms not caring is true, then that makes me feel better. Like I said I'm not picky about prestige and will bid to maximize my chances of an offer. If I wanted to be picky, I should have gotten better grades.

Does anyone else have thoughts on the limitations imposed by a C+?


If it comes up sell the improvement. Though you only got a B in that class, presumably the fact that you're GPA went from 3.25 to 3.4 means you also improved in other areas.

Otherwise, at around median or so I think you'll be fine even with the C+.

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rpupkin
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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby rpupkin » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. 3.4 would be above the advertised median, but below the actual median I believe.

I just worry about that C+ closing doors. The general feeling at my school is that "Biglaw is pretty attainable unless you have a C or something" and T-14 people talk about how "At my school a C is very rare and only handed out discretionarily" (and I'm assuming they meant to include C+s as well).

Cs (and C+s) are rare in the T14. Don't get me wrong, bro: it doesn't look good. But in the scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal. If you gave me the choice between a 3.3 (with the lowest grade of a B) and a 3.4 (with the lowest grade of a C+), I'd prefer the latter. It's your overall GPA that matters. The fact that you bombed a final in one class isn't going to disqualify you from most firms.

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Re: C+ at a Lower T14

Postby gaddockteeg » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:43 pm

To be honest, I'm not even sure interviewers will notice. I think they just glance at overall GPA and then move on.




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