Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

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Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:47 pm

First semester grades just came back from Penn. Got a B and 2 B-'s. Needless to say, I'm pretty displeased since I felt really confident after 2 of the exams.

What are my career options looking like at this point? Have I eliminated myself from opportunities in Biglaw, and if not, how low in the vault rankings do I need to aim?

I still want to practice law even after this horrible news, but I don't know that I can afford it if I have to pay back student loans with a 40k salary post-graduation.

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby MarkfromWI » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:53 pm

It's only one semester worth of grades; figure out what you did wrong and make a plan of attack to improve for next semester. No need to be all doom and gloom. Not yet, at least.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby ymmv » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:First semester grades just came back from Penn. Got a B and 2 B-'s. Needless to say, I'm pretty displeased since I felt really confident after 2 of the exams.

What are my career options looking like at this point? Have I eliminated myself from opportunities in Biglaw, and if not, how low in the vault rankings do I need to aim?

I still want to practice law even after this horrible news, but I don't know that I can afford it if I have to pay back student loans with a 40k salary post-graduation.


You're not out of the running for OCI, but you're going to have to work pretty hard next semester to get yourself up to a more comfortable place at or above median. What's your total current debt including UG? What are your goals, and did you have a pre-law school career?

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:06 pm

ymmv wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First semester grades just came back from Penn. Got a B and 2 B-'s. Needless to say, I'm pretty displeased since I felt really confident after 2 of the exams.

What are my career options looking like at this point? Have I eliminated myself from opportunities in Biglaw, and if not, how low in the vault rankings do I need to aim?

I still want to practice law even after this horrible news, but I don't know that I can afford it if I have to pay back student loans with a 40k salary post-graduation.


You're not out of the running for OCI, but you're going to have to work pretty hard next semester to get yourself up to a more comfortable place at or above median. What's your total current debt including UG? What are your goals, and did you have a pre-law school career?


Different anon here but does a 2.7-2.8 range for 1L first semester really keep a student in the running event at a T14? At that rate, won't the OP have to get at least a 3.6 or higher GPA for next semester to be around median?

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby JohannDeMann » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:07 pm

This is one reason going to a T-14 at sticker is dumb. After one semester, let alone one year, you are pot committed assuming you think you'll like law. You've already 1/6 of the cost and the employment rates are good enough that you're probably coming out ahead no matter what class rank you have, again assuming you will like practicing law.

So study a lot this semester and mass mail over the summer. That's really all you can control. Speculation is dumb.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:08 pm

Apply to the joint JD/MBA with Wharton, grades don't really matter there and frankly you'll have a lot more career options.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:09 pm

I had a friend at Michigan get a biglaw job with a 2.7 gpa. It can happen, but the chances aren't good.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I had a friend at Michigan get a biglaw job with a 2.7 gpa. It can happen, but the chances aren't good.


V50? V100? What was the range?

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby mvp99 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Apply to the joint JD/MBA with Wharton, grades don't really matter there and frankly you'll have a lot more career options.


And then drop the JD? is it possible? damn I would drop the JD if I could....

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby ymmv » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ymmv wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First semester grades just came back from Penn. Got a B and 2 B-'s. Needless to say, I'm pretty displeased since I felt really confident after 2 of the exams.

What are my career options looking like at this point? Have I eliminated myself from opportunities in Biglaw, and if not, how low in the vault rankings do I need to aim?

I still want to practice law even after this horrible news, but I don't know that I can afford it if I have to pay back student loans with a 40k salary post-graduation.


You're not out of the running for OCI, but you're going to have to work pretty hard next semester to get yourself up to a more comfortable place at or above median. What's your total current debt including UG? What are your goals, and did you have a pre-law school career?


Different anon here but does a 2.7-2.8 range for 1L first semester really keep a student in the running event at a T14? At that rate, won't the OP have to get at least a 3.6 or higher GPA for next semester to be around median?


We don't have GPAs at Penn, and the median is not published. However, the median seems to hover somewhere around B+ average (depending on how many discretionary C's professors give out in a given semester), and with four spring classes it is possible for OP to bring his/her average up to B+.

I'm not saying it's a good idea to stay, but if OP has already paid for the spring semester it may be worth a shot, again depending on his/her goals, background, etc. I know for a fact that several people got jobs through OCI last year even with dreaded C's on their transcript, and not having GPAs on our transcripts or resumes means that grabbing an A or two in the spring could do a lot to make employers look more favorably on OP's application.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby mvp99 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:23 pm

ymmv wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ymmv wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First semester grades just came back from Penn. Got a B and 2 B-'s. Needless to say, I'm pretty displeased since I felt really confident after 2 of the exams.

What are my career options looking like at this point? Have I eliminated myself from opportunities in Biglaw, and if not, how low in the vault rankings do I need to aim?

I still want to practice law even after this horrible news, but I don't know that I can afford it if I have to pay back student loans with a 40k salary post-graduation.


You're not out of the running for OCI, but you're going to have to work pretty hard next semester to get yourself up to a more comfortable place at or above median. What's your total current debt including UG? What are your goals, and did you have a pre-law school career?


Different anon here but does a 2.7-2.8 range for 1L first semester really keep a student in the running event at a T14? At that rate, won't the OP have to get at least a 3.6 or higher GPA for next semester to be around median?


We don't have GPAs at Penn, and the median is not published. However, the median seems to hover somewhere around B+ average (depending on how many discretionary C's professors give out in a given semester), and with four spring classes it is possible for OP to bring his/her average up to B+.

I'm not saying it's a good idea to stay, but if OP has already paid for the spring semester it may be worth a shot, again depending on his/her goals, background, etc. I know for a fact that several people got jobs through OCI last year even with dreaded C's on their transcript, and not having GPAs on our transcripts or resumes means that grabbing an A or two in the spring could do a lot to make employers look more favorably on OP's application.


You don't have GPAs in your transcripts???

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby ymmv » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:26 pm

mvp99 wrote:
ymmv wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ymmv wrote:You're not out of the running for OCI, but you're going to have to work pretty hard next semester to get yourself up to a more comfortable place at or above median. What's your total current debt including UG? What are your goals, and did you have a pre-law school career?


Different anon here but does a 2.7-2.8 range for 1L first semester really keep a student in the running event at a T14? At that rate, won't the OP have to get at least a 3.6 or higher GPA for next semester to be around median?


We don't have GPAs at Penn, and the median is not published. However, the median seems to hover somewhere around B+ average (depending on how many discretionary C's professors give out in a given semester), and with four spring classes it is possible for OP to bring his/her average up to B+.

I'm not saying it's a good idea to stay, but if OP has already paid for the spring semester it may be worth a shot, again depending on his/her goals, background, etc. I know for a fact that several people got jobs through OCI last year even with dreaded C's on their transcript, and not having GPAs on our transcripts or resumes means that grabbing an A or two in the spring could do a lot to make employers look more favorably on OP's application.


You don't have GPAs in your transcripts???


No, and we're expressly forbidden to guess and put it on our resume. And it's 100% pure preference-lottery OCI, so employers can't screen you based on grades anyway.
Penn apparently paid some consultants to concoct the system a few years back, and I gotta say it seems to be working out pretty well for us students.
Last edited by ymmv on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby notgreat » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:26 pm

PM me OP.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:41 am

You're fine. I had 3 B's, 11 Callbacks, and 3 Offers.

Edit: I go to Penn.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:53 am

mvp99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Apply to the joint JD/MBA with Wharton, grades don't really matter there and frankly you'll have a lot more career options.


And then drop the JD? is it possible? damn I would drop the JD if I could....


No, I don't think you can do that. But with a Wharton MBA you can pretty much write your own ticket in the business world, and employers won't give a damn about your fall 1L grades.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You're fine. I had 3 B's, 11 Callbacks, and 3 Offers.

Edit: I go to Penn.


Is this really the same situation?

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby FSK » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:07 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You're fine. I had 3 B's, 11 Callbacks, and 3 Offers.

Edit: I go to Penn.


Is this really the same situation?


Yeah. OP's grades are a lot worse.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby notgreat » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:12 pm

flawschoolkid wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You're fine. I had 3 B's, 11 Callbacks, and 3 Offers.

Edit: I go to Penn.


Is this really the same situation?


Yeah. OP's grades are a lot worse.


But it doesn't matter, because either way a strong second semester would be necessary and sufficient.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I had a friend at Michigan get a biglaw job with a 2.7 gpa. It can happen, but the chances aren't good.


V50? V100? What was the range?


It's in the 60's

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:55 pm

OP is absolutely not dead in the water for BigLaw yet. Had B, B, B- after first semester, marginally improved second semester. 5 callbacks, 3 offers. Will be working at a V50 this summer.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:13 pm

It's not a death sentence, but it's going to depend a lot on your hustle...and on 2nd semester. Friend of mine went into OCI with B, B, B-, B-, B+, A on his transcript (one semester identical to yours) and landed four offers, one in DC - stellar interviewer, and great softs. But I think someone like him is the exception and not the rule, having seen people hovering close to median strike out. So it's really going to depend on your individual situation, which will require a lot of brutal honesty on your part. Are you a good interviewer? Is your background competitive? Do you have a backup plan if you miss the biglaw boat? How much debt do you have?

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mvp99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Apply to the joint JD/MBA with Wharton, grades don't really matter there and frankly you'll have a lot more career options.


And then drop the JD? is it possible? damn I would drop the JD if I could....


No, I don't think you can do that. But with a Wharton MBA you can pretty much write your own ticket in the business world, and employers won't give a damn about your fall 1L grades.


Please, for the love of god, do not actually consider banking on getting into the JD/MBA program and "writing your own ticket in the business world" as a solution to your problem. This is terrible advice.

Grades matter less AT Wharton, FOR Wharton MBA students, because they have a grade non-disclosure policy where business employers can't see your individual grades (but law firms can). When you are applying to the MBA program as a law student, however, please believe that your grades do matter as a part of your application and yours will hurt you at this point. The Wharton admissions committee is looking for people who can excel in any environment, and your grades so far suggest the opposite. Furthermore, the acceptance rate for law students applying to the JD/MBA program is exceptionally low in general. I know several people, with grades much better than yours, who applied both 1L and first-round 2L who did not get in. This is just a monumentally dumb suggestion.

You need to spend your time figuring out why you got two B-'s and trying to pull your grades up next semester, not taking the GMAT and putting together a Wharton app in some misguided attempt to avoid the work you need to do to succeed in law school. You don't even need to do that much better. 70% of our class gets firm jobs and I can't think of a single person I know that got screwed come OCI. Just meet with your profs, talk about your exams, talk with friends who did well, figure out what you're doing wrong, and make up for it next semester.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby ymmv » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:19 pm

Not to mention the fact that it's pretty questionable whether a KJD is going to benefit much from an MBA in the first place. Most of their classmates are going to have extensive post-undergrad work experience, and my (outsider's) understanding is that big business school recruiters are looking for people with some years in their field (or some field) under their belt, or at least a demonstrated ability to excel in a high pressure business environment.

And of course there's the massive additional debt load if you do get accepted, which should probably be the number 1 reason to avoid this strategy.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:34 pm

Obviously try to correct where you went wrong last semester...but you can do just fine from the bottom of the class. I had 2 B- and 3 B at OCI and had the typical 10+CB, 3+ offer experience (Fall 2014 OCI). I had to hustle a lot harder than others to get those opportunities, but all it takes is one.

That being said, you really need to commit your summer to mastering OCI interviews before you start going to them. This is easier said then done. And be ready for a hectic schedule when you put yourself in front of 60+ screeners (which is especially tough when some classmates do ~15 and call it a day). Just stay mentally tough and work hard.

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Re: Penn 1L Grades B, B-, B-

Postby VictoryGin » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:33 pm

PM me!




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