BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
ymmv
Posts: 12992
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:36 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby ymmv » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:30 am

fats provolone wrote:
First Offense wrote:I'm starting to think it's not Biglaw that's terrible, but rather just that lawyers are terrible.

what's the difference


It's not the snake pit that kills you AMIRITE.

Alakazam
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:15 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Alakazam » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:05 pm

Hi, Anon,

I'm sorry to hear you're having a tough time post-grad working in Biglaw-- it can be tough to adjust to such a different quality of life if you're not passionate about what you do or with whom you work. I have a few questions for you:

Do you feel like Biglaw is just not a great fit for what you want out out life or is it possible that the practice group with which you're working isn't right for you? JohannDeMann mentioned switching practice groups, and that may be viable option. If you feel like you could potentially thrive in the Biglaw environment but simply haven't found your niche, it may be helpful to have an honest conversation with a partner about your situation.

If Biglaw just isn't for you, please don't beat yourself up. Admitting that Biglaw isn't the right fit doesn't make you a quitter; it makes you realistic about what you want out of your life and how you hope to accomplish those goals. With that said, if you do switch jobs, are you hoping to stay in the city in which you currently live and work or are you willing to relocate? From what you posted, you enjoyed working on political campaigns in the past, so I'd suggest you look into jobs in DC. You can waive into the DC bar with a bar pass from any state and a corresponding scaled MBE score of 133+. In addition to the traditional firm gigs, there are tons of non-traditional legal jobs in DC, from fellowships to policy organizations. Some of these groups hire recent grads with less than one year of experience, so you may consider researching those opportunities.

If you're not looking to relocate, there are still options out there! Have you checked out your law school's Career Services website and checked out jobs on there? It sounds silly, I know, but I'm relocating myself and my school has been incredibly helpful in that endeavor.

What areas of law interest you? If you have a specific interest, it may be helpful to research small or boutique firms in your area that specialize in whatever you're passionate about. That would likely improve your quality of life and, even if you did have to put in a hellish amount of time, at least you would wake up excited about the day. All of the above suggestions would mean a hefty pay cut, but you're in a phenomenal position in that you have no debt.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:50 pm

go back to campaigns.

User avatar
Shaggier1
Posts: 721
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:57 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Shaggier1 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:22 pm

Accidental anon above.

(But seriously I'd walk out the door right fucking now. Doesn't make you a quitter. Makes you someone who has the balls to look for happiness.)
Last edited by Shaggier1 on Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nomo
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:06 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Nomo » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:51 pm

Hardly anyone likes the work, atmosphere, or hours of biglaw. People do it because they think they need the money or prestige. If you don't need those things I would look to get out soon. Life really is short. How much time are you going to waste being miserable? Start applying for better jobs now.

gulcregret
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:08 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby gulcregret » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:36 pm

Julius wrote:
30-something-biglaw-lawyer-gulcregret wrote:working sucks no matter what.

actual statistics wrote:64% of people ... say they’re satisfied with their jobs


Not sure what you are going for here. Working can still suck even though one is satisfied with one's job. I am satisfied with my job but working still sucks. All this biglaw hating must be based on some sort of expectations, I guess. I really don't know.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:34 pm

OP here - I think I sm beginning to figure out the issue. This job, and maybe legal practice in general does not mesh well with my personality. I think the lack of focus/boredom comes from sitting around drafting and researching things that I don't give a single fuck about. I also find myself craving human interaction of any sort as my days are constantly me sitting alone at my desk.

I have also begun to wake up at 3 am the last few nights thinking I sm going to be late to work/should be billing.

Still don't know how I will ever reach my billable goal.

User avatar
sundance95
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby sundance95 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here - I think I sm beginning to figure out the issue. This job, and maybe legal practice in general does not mesh well with my personality. I think the lack of focus/boredom comes from sitting around drafting and researching things that I don't give a single fuck about. I also find myself craving human interaction of any sort as my days are constantly me sitting alone at my desk.

I have also begun to wake up at 3 am the last few nights thinking I sm going to be late to work/should be billing.

Still don't know how I will ever reach my billable goal.

You need to stop caring so much about your 'goal.' if you don't need the money the 'goal' has no power over you. worst case scenario you get the 3 month find something else warning in about a year, which sounds like it might be a net positive for you anyway.

$$$$$$
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:08 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby $$$$$$ » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here - I think I sm beginning to figure out the issue. This job, and maybe legal practice in general does not mesh well with my personality. I think the lack of focus/boredom comes from sitting around drafting and researching things that I don't give a single fuck about. I also find myself craving human interaction of any sort as my days are constantly me sitting alone at my desk.

I have also begun to wake up at 3 am the last few nights thinking I sm going to be late to work/should be billing.

Still don't know how I will ever reach my billable goal.


The fact you have no debt and you are waking up in the middle of the night worried about billing makes me think your personality is actually perfect for biglaw, neurotic and over-achieving. You need to relax, honestly, you can pretty much mail it in and collect paychecks for the next 2-3 years if you do just enough work to not stand out as horrible, and that is a pretty sweet place to be in.

If you want to interact, then go walk around and talk to people, happens all the time in pretty much every office in America, crazy right! And if you don't give a "single fuck" then stop freaking out over the super high paying job you have that literally shovels thousands of dollars a month straight into your savings account that you could quit at any time and be totally fine.

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15413
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby sublime » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:55 pm

..

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2092
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:29 pm

sublime wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:No coif.

Seriously, no debt. I saved my money from my two years working and saved all my summer associate money and took the big scholarship. Parents helped with CoL when needed.


No coif from a T25 = no mobility until you have substantive experience (which may not be for another five years or more).

Sorry.


Is Coif that big of a deal? Why? And what would his options be if he did get coif?


Personally, I don't give a shit about Coif if I know you do good work, but people will ding T25ers for not having Coif (and, in fact, our hiring partner, recruiting coordinator and firm-wide hiring guidelines require that we ding junior associate lateral candidates without top 10% credentials). You never know when you're going to get some prestige whore looking at your lateral application, so take that into consideration when slacking off during 2L and 3L. I'm certainly not saying that every practicing biglaw attorney will ding you for no Coif at a T25, but some definitely will.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here - I think I sm beginning to figure out the issue. This job, and maybe legal practice in general does not mesh well with my personality. I think the lack of focus/boredom comes from sitting around drafting and researching things that I don't give a single fuck about. I also find myself craving human interaction of any sort as my days are constantly me sitting alone at my desk.

I have also begun to wake up at 3 am the last few nights thinking I sm going to be late to work/should be billing.

Still don't know how I will ever reach my billable goal.


The fact you have no debt and you are waking up in the middle of the night worried about billing makes me think your personality is actually perfect for biglaw, neurotic and over-achieving. You need to relax, honestly, you can pretty much mail it in and collect paychecks for the next 2-3 years if you do just enough work to not stand out as horrible, andthat is a pretty sweet place to be in.

If you want to interact, then go walk around and talk to people, happens all the time in pretty much every office in America, crazy right! And if you don't give a "single fuck" then stop freaking out over the super high paying job you have that literally shovels thousands of dollars a month straight into your savings account that you could quit at any time and be totally fine.


You have no idea my man. I guess I look at life like a competition. All my friends are douchebags who push themsleves to the limit or are slackers. That, on top of being raised by a tiger mom probably has made me take this all very too seriosuly.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:58 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Personally, I don't give a shit about Coif if I know you do good work, but people will ding T25ers for not having Coif (and, in fact, our hiring partner, recruiting coordinator and firm-wide hiring guidelines require that we ding junior associate lateral candidates without top 10% credentials). You never know when you're going to get some prestige whore looking at your lateral application, so take that into consideration when slacking off during 2L and 3L. I'm certainly not saying that every practicing biglaw attorney will ding you for no Coif at a T25, but some definitely will.


just wondering, how true is this at T14 schools? like, low honors are good enough to get in the door most places from a T6, but if you want to jump ship do you need high honors as well

(current 3L who is in wondering how hard to gun this year)

Hutz_and_Goodman
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Personally, I don't give a shit about Coif if I know you do good work, but people will ding T25ers for not having Coif (and, in fact, our hiring partner, recruiting coordinator and firm-wide hiring guidelines require that we ding junior associate lateral candidates without top 10% credentials). You never know when you're going to get some prestige whore looking at your lateral application, so take that into consideration when slacking off during 2L and 3L. I'm certainly not saying that every practicing biglaw attorney will ding you for no Coif at a T25, but some definitely will.


just wondering, how true is this at T14 schools? like, low honors are good enough to get in the door most places from a T6, but if you want to jump ship do you need high honors as well

(current 3L who is in wondering how hard to gun this year)


I'm wondering what lateral options are closed to a t1 order of the coif grad who is in big law. Obviously what was out originally (firms that only hire HYS or t14) are still out. But beyond that?

User avatar
sundance95
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby sundance95 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:12 pm

guys, everyone is telling you that it's idiosyncratic. if you don't get it, you might get shut out of some things, but it's impossible to generalize about what those things might be.

it's not math

User avatar
fats provolone
Posts: 7125
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby fats provolone » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:16 pm

FUCK YOU WHICH BOX DO I CHECK

User avatar
ExBiglawAssociate
Posts: 2092
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Personally, I don't give a shit about Coif if I know you do good work, but people will ding T25ers for not having Coif (and, in fact, our hiring partner, recruiting coordinator and firm-wide hiring guidelines require that we ding junior associate lateral candidates without top 10% credentials). You never know when you're going to get some prestige whore looking at your lateral application, so take that into consideration when slacking off during 2L and 3L. I'm certainly not saying that every practicing biglaw attorney will ding you for no Coif at a T25, but some definitely will.


just wondering, how true is this at T14 schools? like, low honors are good enough to get in the door most places from a T6, but if you want to jump ship do you need high honors as well

(current 3L who is in wondering how hard to gun this year)


No matter who you are, you'll always be shut out of something. Even people with top credentials get pigeon-holed as litigators or whatever after they've been working a number of years. Just do the best you can while you're in law school. It's not like you have anything else to do. As others have said, there is no one-size-fits-all advice here. I think most firms care a lot less about law school grades than my firm, so anything I tell you about my firm is probably 100% irrelevant to what goes on at most firms.

User avatar
sundance95
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:44 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby sundance95 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:49 pm

fats provolone wrote:FUCK YOU WHICH BOX DO I CHECK

rebeccablackjoke.gif

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:20 pm

OP here - first off, fuck the Coif convo.

Sexond, how long do big firms usually let one flounder before telling them to GTFO?

User avatar
fats provolone
Posts: 7125
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby fats provolone » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here - first off, fuck the Coif convo.

Sexond, how long do big firms usually let one flounder before telling them to GTFO?

depends if you're coif or not

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:34 pm

I am not coif, you little trout sniffer.

But seriously, I don't know how people spend their days like this.

Wake up at 7 AM or so, be in to work by 8.

Bill until lunch, then either take a lunch and Hate yourself for it or eat like a troll in your office.

Bill till 6:30 or so, get home around 7:15.

Then try to find time to workout, eat somewhat healthy, relax, etc and then try to get enough sleep.

I'm about to say fuck it and do that 9-5 and just take the heat on billables

User avatar
fats provolone
Posts: 7125
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:44 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby fats provolone » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:40 pm

p much

User avatar
UnicornHunter
Posts: 13507
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby UnicornHunter » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:52 pm


Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am not coif, you little trout sniffer.

But seriously, I don't know how people spend their days like this.

Wake up at 7 AM or so, be in to work by 8.

Bill until lunch, then either take a lunch and Hate yourself for it or eat like a troll in your office.

Bill till 6:30 or so, get home around 7:15.

Then try to find time to workout, eat somewhat healthy, relax, etc and then try to get enough sleep.

I'm about to say fuck it and do that 9-5 and just take the heat on billables


Haha is this actually a troll? I work in government and my hours are the same as yours and often worse. Those are actually really chill hours for biglaw. I hate to break it to you, but that's just grown-up living. Very few actual professionals work 9-5, no matter the employer or field. Maybe you should move to Europe?

Now, if your complaints are about the work itself, then that's fine, and you should think of doing something else, but hours-wise, I don't think you're being realistic.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: BIGLAW + 6 months in = very unhappy - any advice?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am not coif, you little trout sniffer.

But seriously, I don't know how people spend their days like this.

Wake up at 7 AM or so, be in to work by 8.

Bill until lunch, then either take a lunch and Hate yourself for it or eat like a troll in your office.

Bill till 6:30 or so, get home around 7:15.

Then try to find time to workout, eat somewhat healthy, relax, etc and then try to get enough sleep.

I'm about to say fuck it and do that 9-5 and just take the heat on billables


You leave work around 6:30? Lucky bastard. I'm here till 9 or 10 most nights, and often later.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.