Dilemma: Renege or not?

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Renege?

Yes, the opportunity is worth it.
20
95%
No, its too risky and you have a job. Don't be greedy.
1
5%
 
Total votes: 21

Anonymous User
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Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:22 pm

I’m a 3L at a T14. I spent my 2L summer at a not-very-well-regarded V100, and I did not enjoy it. I tried my hand at 3L OCI but it didn’t go so well (I had under a 3.0 my first semester and that still haunts me).

In October I finally got a callback with a V10 in its flagship practice, which is exactly what I want to do. (Think Kirkland or Simpson for Private Equity work, Skadden/M&A, Weil/Bankruptcy, etc).

The deadline for accepting my final offer at the V100 was November 1st, and by Halloween I still hadn’t heard anything from the V10. I reached out but got this response: “at this time we are not in a position to extend you an offer.”

So I accepted with V100. Wasn’t very happy about it but it’s a job.

Then, last week, V10 calls me up “we’d like to extend you an offer, are you still interested?”

Well yea I’m interested, but I have already accepted at V100. V10 say they don’t care. However, my school cares and said that under no circumstances can I renege on the V100 and if I do I’m in breach of my ethical duties and I won’t pass the bar and I’ll be blacklisted at every other firm in NY etc etc. They were very serious about it and said the consequences far outweigh the opportunity.

But if reneging was really so bad, why would the V10 be ok with me doing it?

What should I do in this situation? What are the risks? Who is right?

mvp99
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby mvp99 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:26 pm

Its Weil Bankruptcy.

I would talk to an attorney about the C&F issue.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:36 pm

i'd bail and take the job you actually want. yolo and all that, but also because (1) let someone else who wants the other job get it, and (2) let the firm you're bailing on hire someone who actually wants to be there. don't see much of a downside, tbh.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:42 pm

Did they tell you which ethical duty exactly you're breaching and which bar requirement you'd fail? Because I don't know of any rules of professional conduct that govern accepting/reneging on jobs. Nor do I know of any question on the bar application asking whether you've withdrawn from a job you were hired at. The closest is the catch-all "Within the past five (5) years, have you exhibited any conduct or behavior that could call into question your ability to practice law in a competent, ethical, and professional manner?", but I'm not sure how withdrawing from a job you've accepted in favor of another job would require a yes answer here. I suspect your school is bluffing.

(but don't take my word for that, of course. see if they can give you a specific tenet/rule you're breaking, and talk to someone at your state's bar association.)

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:42 pm

I don't see how this is a c+f issue. People agree to take jobs and then back out all the time. There are obviously other qualified people in the t14 and elsewhere who would love to have the job at your v100.

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ballcaps
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby ballcaps » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:47 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:I don't see how this is a c+f issue. People agree to take jobs and then back out all the time. There are obviously other qualified people in the t14 and elsewhere who would love to have the job at your v100.


this. how on earth could this be considered a breach of ethics?

is it unethical every time someone quits a job?

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby MarkfromWI » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:55 pm

Your school's reaction is really surprising. Seems contrary to every understanding of "at-will employment" I've ever had... I'd echo the poster above who said that the school was probably bluffing- I can't imagine you getting "blackballed" in the industry simply because you traded up. I mean isn't trading up the biggest reason for 3L OCI in the first place?

lapolicia
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby lapolicia » Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:47 pm

The only breach of ethics here is on the part of your school's OCS for giving you such terrible advice. The only firm that will blacklist you is the one you rescind from, this isn't in any way a C+F issue (C+F fear is overblown among law students and basically only cares about delinquent debt, criminal records, drug use, and you getting fired), and it isn't any of your school's business what you choose to do here.

Anonymous User
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:24 pm

I would absolutely do it. Not even close. I've seen what it's like to work at both and trust me, it's worth the risk,

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kalvano
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby kalvano » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:33 pm

Your OCS is a joke. Take the job you want and then when you get your bar passage letter, go nail it to the office door of the idiot that told you all of that.

zugzwanger
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby zugzwanger » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:37 pm

It sounds like your office is saying this because they think it will hurt their office/maybe school rep etc. etc.

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FSK
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby FSK » Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:41 pm

You earned this break. Go get it.

Stevoman
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby Stevoman » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:00 pm

kalvano wrote:Your OCS is a joke. Take the job you want and then when you get your bar passage letter, go nail it to the office door of the idiot that told you all of that.


It's not that OCS is a joke, it's that OCS looks out for the school, not for the students. Once you realize they don't give a shit about you and ditch them, morale in the job hunt gets a lot better.

OCS wants OP to stay put because: (1) he is currently a guaranteed check in their "employed, full time, JD required" column and they don't want any changes that may risk losing that; and (2) they want to preserve their school's goodwill with that firm for future students. Thus, they are making empty threats in hopes he won't upset their boat.

Also OP, since you found this job on your own, keep your OCS in the dark about it. You do not have to tell them where you ended up, and if you're going behind them you absolutely should not. The last thing you want is them to contact the new employer to screw you over.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby JohannDeMann » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:05 pm

Stevoman wrote:
kalvano wrote:Your OCS is a joke. Take the job you want and then when you get your bar passage letter, go nail it to the office door of the idiot that told you all of that.


It's not that OCS is a joke, it's that OCS looks out for the school, not for the students. Once you realize they don't give a shit about you and ditch them, morale in the job hunt gets a lot better.

OCS wants OP to stay put because: (1) he is currently a guaranteed check in their "employed, full time, JD required" column and they don't want any changes that may risk losing that; and (2) they want to preserve their school's goodwill with that firm for future students. Thus, they are making empty threats in hopes he won't upset their boat.

Also OP, since you found this job on your own, keep your OCS in the dark about it. You do not have to tell them where you ended up, and if you're going behind them you absolutely should not. The last thing you want is them to contact the new employer to screw you over.


Yep, this. It won't hurt you OP. I know New Yorkers who did the same last year and had no C&F issues.

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bjsesq
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby bjsesq » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:08 pm

Fuck your OCS and fuck their scare tactics. Go get yours.

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romothesavior
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:11 pm

Your school is full of shit. It's not a breach of ethics nor is it a C+F issue.

If you want this job, go for it.

Wahoos
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby Wahoos » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:14 pm

Your school is being unethical in giving you this phony advice / bluffing. Call them out on it

Anonymous User
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:20 pm

I did this (almost the exact fact pattern) and OCS tried the same scare tactics on me. A year later, I'm happy at my V10 and no one gives a shit. I find your and my OCS's reaction to be severely disappointing. They are very transparent in where their loyalties lie, and it's not with the student in front of them paying 6-figures. I know that makes sense logically, but it is extremely hard to swallow in the moment. Take the job you want. No one cares. Not your old job, not the bar.

Anonymous User
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:23 pm

Such bullshit. Fucking CSO's.

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AreJay711
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:38 pm

The firm's not even going to be mad. If somebody better came along they would have passed on you.

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kalvano
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby kalvano » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:06 pm

Stevoman wrote:
kalvano wrote:Your OCS is a joke. Take the job you want and then when you get your bar passage letter, go nail it to the office door of the idiot that told you all of that.


It's not that OCS is a joke, it's that OCS looks out for the school, not for the students. Once you realize they don't give a shit about you and ditch them, morale in the job hunt gets a lot better.

OCS wants OP to stay put because: (1) he is currently a guaranteed check in their "employed, full time, JD required" column and they don't want any changes that may risk losing that; and (2) they want to preserve their school's goodwill with that firm for future students. Thus, they are making empty threats in hopes he won't upset their boat.

Also OP, since you found this job on your own, keep your OCS in the dark about it. You do not have to tell them where you ended up, and if you're going behind them you absolutely should not. The last thing you want is them to contact the new employer to screw you over.


His OCS is a joke because of the C&F bullshit they are spewing, not because they are looking out for the school.

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FSK
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby FSK » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:14 pm

kalvano wrote:
Stevoman wrote:
kalvano wrote:Your OCS is a joke. Take the job you want and then when you get your bar passage letter, go nail it to the office door of the idiot that told you all of that.


It's not that OCS is a joke, it's that OCS looks out for the school, not for the students. Once you realize they don't give a shit about you and ditch them, morale in the job hunt gets a lot better.

OCS wants OP to stay put because: (1) he is currently a guaranteed check in their "employed, full time, JD required" column and they don't want any changes that may risk losing that; and (2) they want to preserve their school's goodwill with that firm for future students. Thus, they are making empty threats in hopes he won't upset their boat.

Also OP, since you found this job on your own, keep your OCS in the dark about it. You do not have to tell them where you ended up, and if you're going behind them you absolutely should not. The last thing you want is them to contact the new employer to screw you over.


His OCS is a joke because of the C&F bullshit they are spewing, not because they are looking out for the school.


I agree with not telling them. You're just unnecessarily burning bridges with no advantage (beyond the fun "fuck you"). Unnecessary risk IMO.

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fats provolone
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby fats provolone » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:16 pm

mvp99 wrote:Its Weil Bankruptcy.

I would talk to an attorney about the C&F issue.

wow this guy consistently gives the worst fucking advice

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BankruptMe
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby BankruptMe » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:20 pm

Honestly, I would renege.

If this is what you truly want. Do it.

Anonymous User
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Re: Dilemma: Renege or not?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:06 pm

mvp99 wrote:Its Weil Bankruptcy.

I would talk to an attorney about the C&F issue.

Not sure what makes you say that--are you implying that Weil bankruptcy is in some way less selective than the others? Cuz it's the opposite that's true...

And I'm pretty sure Weil bankruptcy doesn't recruit from 3L OCI.




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