Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
2L at CLS. the school doesn't release the exact grades for median, which IMO, is good for non-stone students because employers can't figure it out either. after going through EIP, i'd say students are grouped into roughly three (maybe four, if you separate out kent scholars) groups: (1) kent + stone; (2) non-stone people; (3) even lower non-stone people (i'm guessing multiple b-s, straight Bs).

...

i would worry if you are group 3, but then again, i'm sure there are some anecdotes i don't know of where people in that group got offers. seriously, don't worry about EIP until 1L is over and you get all your grades back. your grades can improve next semester, and even if you stay in group 2, you're okay. i've learned that a lot of stress is artificially produced in law school, and part of what you "learn" in law school is staying grounded and not freaking out about self-imposed anxieties. a lot easier said than done, but one of the benefits of attending CLS is that nearly everyone has a realistic shot at EIP.


I didn't have straight B's my CLS 1L but was not far off--definitely well below median. Nonetheless had three offers. Biglaw at EIP is not guaranteed (though it's quite likely), but grades alone won't be enough to disqualify you. Honestly, the per-hour ROI from working on your interviewing skills is ten times the ROI from studying your casebook.

As a side note - what % of "group 2" people come away from EIP with an offer? I know that the markets people bid, work experience, etc. are relevant. For argument's sake let's assume they bid exclusively NYC, have median work experience, median interview skills, and don't bid wastefully. What are the odds?


Assuming roughly median grades (3.2-3.4): I'd say 95%. Strikeouts almost always have a "bad" something: Bad grades, bad interviewing, bad bidding. A majority of them are deficient in at least two.

Anonymous User wrote:Also - why does every CLS 2L/3L say at admitted students weekend that "as long as you don't totally mess up 1L you'll be fine," but now that I've actually taken out the loans to go here, everyone on TLS and the rest of the internet says "getting Stone is really the only way to guarantee a job."


You will very probably be fine if you don't totally mess up 1L and you average at interviewing. Of course, nothing is guaranteed, but no one says getting Stone is "really the only way to guarantee a job."

As a K-JD 1L at CLS attending at sticker, this whole process has been a mess and I feel like I was duped. "Getting median" doesn't make you safe, even though every 2L/3L you meet at ASW will tell you that it does.


Getting median makes you about as safe as grades can make you. You can screw up any GPA with bad interviewing and/or bad bidding.

Now that I've taken out soul-crushing loans to go here, I discover that it's Kent/Stone (Something like top 1/3rd?) and then everybody else. Sounds an awful lot like the employment prospects of the top 30 schools other than HYS - except that I got merit $$$ to go to those schools. Like the naive 0L that I was, I enrolled here at sticker because "T6 are the only schools worth going to." But now, assuming I end up non-Stone, I will somehow need to develop "amazing" interview skills to get a job in BigLaw because I don't have full-time work experience

SMDH. Feel like an idiot for telling my family that I was in a good place after getting a 3.33. Would do anything to go back in time and not get myself involved in this awful CLS rat-race.


CLS wipes the floor with any non-T6 except for maybe Penn. I'd put it right up there with any other school for someone with Biglaw aspirations.

fats provolone wrote:sticker at cls seems like a pretty terrible plan though tbh


It's really not worse than HYS sticker. Then again, sticker anywhere is not ideal.

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fats provolone
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby fats provolone » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:36 pm

coa has to be higher in nyc right? but yeah sticker anywhere kinda blows

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utahraptor
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby utahraptor » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:43 pm

fats provolone wrote:coa has to be higher in nyc right? but yeah sticker anywhere kinda blows

yeah probably but you need to put effort in to hit the columbia estimated cost of living numbers/with subsidized rent it isn't as bad as you'd think

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:45 pm

That anon has to be kidding or is just weirdly depressed after getting 3 B+'s. Below median students at CLS have a higher chance of landing biglaw than the above-median students at most T30's.

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BizBro
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby BizBro » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:48 pm

utahraptor wrote:
fats provolone wrote:coa has to be higher in nyc right? but yeah sticker anywhere kinda blows

yeah probably but you need to put effort in to hit the columbia estimated cost of living numbers/with subsidized rent it isn't as bad as you'd think


Yea you can find cheaper housing with roommates in the nyc. Comparable to COA at HYS. Well minus Y because fucking new haven.

Tiago Splitter wrote:That anon has to be kidding or is just weirdly depressed after getting 3 B+'s. Below median students at CLS have a higher chance of landing biglaw than the above-median students at most T30's.


I don't think he's kidding. Comparing with T30s is useless. I think he's over reacting but if he bombs Spring, he could end up bottom quarter which still requires lots of hustling at CCN.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:50 pm

I'm comparing to T30's because that's what he did. "Bombing" at CLS means a 3.0 which still puts him in fine shape, especially with the market the way it is these days.

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utahraptor
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby utahraptor » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:51 pm

BizBro wrote:I don't think he's kidding. Comparing with T30s is useless. I think he's over reacting but if he bombs Spring, he could end up bottom quarter which still requires lots of hustling at CCN.


I'm not even sure. I think that, as Mono said above, interview skills become more important, but grades aren't the be-all end-all that people on TLS make them out to be. With worse grades it becomes more stressful, and it might take longer, but I think that most people end up OK. I think that you just end up with fewer chances, so if you're unlucky with the callbacks you get, it hurts way more.

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BizBro
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby BizBro » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:17 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I'm comparing to T30's because that's what he did. "Bombing" at CLS means a 3.0 which still puts him in fine shape, especially with the market the way it is these days.


Well, I, more than anyone else hope that's true. Certainly interviewing skills and smart bidding will play a role come EIW, but I'd feel hella more comfortable at median like OP than at 3.0. I'm at the latter and already feeling quite stressed, even in the hunt for 1L summer employment.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:19 pm

Ok first of all 1L summer employment is never a problem. Take your stipend and work for free somewhere. Not gonna matter in the long run.

And when I say "fine shape" I mean it in the same way utahraptor was saying "Stone then everyone else" which is to say in a way that should make the OP (and you) feel better. You just need to get your grades above a very low minimum threshold and then everything else is in your hands. Practice interviewing to get above another low threshold, bid on markets and offices that actually hire people with your grades, and you'll be fine.

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sinfiery
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:52 pm

fats provolone wrote:coa has to be higher in nyc right? but yeah sticker anywhere kinda blows


i don't think significantly vs Boston/Cali

no car + walmart.com + instacart.com really makes it similar

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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:02 pm

To OP complaining about being median at CLS... I'd rather be median at CCN than where I currently am at, which is bottom 1/3 at MVP. Been thinking about dropping out this whole week.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
utahraptor wrote:Employers don't care about nuances in grades to the extent you think they do.

re: EIP stuff, calm down and come July read through old threads/talk to people/practice interviewing

Interviews are a human process. You're not going to be able to whittle it down to a simple formula like you did with law school admissions. You're going to need to let go of that, or it will drive you crazy and make you focus on the wrong things.

ETA: you should be happy with a 3.33—it's fall 1L, you can improve your GPA, and even if you don't, fewer doors have been closed to you than you'd think


I'm amazed by the extent to which CLS 2L/3Ls state the "you can improve your GPA" line. Do you realize that it's a zero sum game, and every single student is trying to improve their GPA?

Also - why does every CLS 2L/3L say at admitted students weekend that "as long as you don't totally mess up 1L you'll be fine," but now that I've actually taken out the loans to go here, everyone on TLS and the rest of the internet says "getting Stone is really the only way to guarantee a job."

As a K-JD 1L at CLS attending at sticker, this whole process has been a mess and I feel like I was duped. "Getting median" doesn't make you safe, even though every 2L/3L you meet at ASW will tell you that it does.

Now that I've taken out soul-crushing loans to go here, I discover that it's Kent/Stone (Something like top 1/3rd?) and then everybody else. Sounds an awful lot like the employment prospects of the top 30 schools other than HYS - except that I got merit $$$ to go to those schools. Like the naive 0L that I was, I enrolled here at sticker because "T6 are the only schools worth going to." But now, assuming I end up non-Stone, I will somehow need to develop "amazing" interview skills to get a job in BigLaw because I don't have full-time work experience

SMDH. Feel like an idiot for telling my family that I was in a good place after getting a 3.33. Would do anything to go back in time and not get myself involved in this awful CLS rat-race.


This is all bullshit. Get your shit together and send the pity party home dude. You don't need stone to get a V10 SA, not to mention a less selective V50. What is this bizarre "feeling" safe hangup? You're perfectly safe. That's why you're at CLS, most of the class is around a 3.3 (40%+ B's , most of the rest B+'s). You're good.

What fools are you getting your info from? Check your sources bro. You don't need "amazing" interview skills. You don't need stone. You can be bottom third and an okay interviewer and get a firm job in new york. You just can't be both bottom third AND a really awkward shitty interviewer

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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:41 pm

OP here. Thanks for the replies. Good to know any one particular grade isn't going to matter.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Lowest Grade is Contracts...Corporate Possible?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:43 am

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
utahraptor wrote:Employers don't care about nuances in grades to the extent you think they do.

re: EIP stuff, calm down and come July read through old threads/talk to people/practice interviewing

Interviews are a human process. You're not going to be able to whittle it down to a simple formula like you did with law school admissions. You're going to need to let go of that, or it will drive you crazy and make you focus on the wrong things.

ETA: you should be happy with a 3.33—it's fall 1L, you can improve your GPA, and even if you don't, fewer doors have been closed to you than you'd think


I'm amazed by the extent to which CLS 2L/3Ls state the "you can improve your GPA" line. Do you realize that it's a zero sum game, and every single student is trying to improve their GPA?

Also - why does every CLS 2L/3L say at admitted students weekend that "as long as you don't totally mess up 1L you'll be fine," but now that I've actually taken out the loans to go here, everyone on TLS and the rest of the internet says "getting Stone is really the only way to guarantee a job."

As a K-JD 1L at CLS attending at sticker, this whole process has been a mess and I feel like I was duped. "Getting median" doesn't make you safe, even though every 2L/3L you meet at ASW will tell you that it does.

Now that I've taken out soul-crushing loans to go here, I discover that it's Kent/Stone (Something like top 1/3rd?) and then everybody else. Sounds an awful lot like the employment prospects of the top 30 schools other than HYS - except that I got merit $$$ to go to those schools. Like the naive 0L that I was, I enrolled here at sticker because "T6 are the only schools worth going to." But now, assuming I end up non-Stone, I will somehow need to develop "amazing" interview skills to get a job in BigLaw because I don't have full-time work experience

SMDH. Feel like an idiot for telling my family that I was in a good place after getting a 3.33. Would do anything to go back in time and not get myself involved in this awful CLS rat-race.


This is all bullshit. Get your shit together and send the pity party home dude. You don't need stone to get a V10 SA, not to mention a less selective V50. What is this bizarre "feeling" safe hangup? You're perfectly safe. That's why you're at CLS, most of the class is around a 3.3 (40%+ B's , most of the rest B+'s). You're good.

What fools are you getting your info from? Check your sources bro. You don't need "amazing" interview skills. You don't need stone. You can be bottom third and an okay interviewer and get a firm job in new york. You just can't be both bottom third AND a really awkward shitty interviewer


All correct. I want to add that this discussion warrants concrete data, so here's the figure to focus on: 85%. That's the number of EIP participants in 2013 who got an offer. And this is anecdotal, but I'll bet the farm the number's higher for 2014.




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