Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:05 pm

Don't have any amazing words of wisdom for OP. But I will say that you are not alone. This job has me in perpetual fear of fucking up. And everyone has a way of making your fuck ups seem more important than they are.

Try to let it go, and know that everyone expects almost nothing of you. Just put in effort, try to learn, and try not to make the same mistakes repeatedly.

If there are any decent seniors or partners in your group, try to seek them out and work for them as much as possible. I recently found one senior in my group who is fantastic, and she's single handedly kept me sane.

Autumnb13
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby Autumnb13 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:07 am

I'm trying to care less but I think people are noticing...

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby JohannDeMann » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:52 am

yeah sorry. you're going to get yelled at regardless. part of not caring is not taking what people say personally. is there anyone you like working for? try and get more work from them?

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dabigchina
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby dabigchina » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:14 am

it could be worse OP

you could feel the same way making 75k a year.

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby SFB222 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:43 am

dabigchina wrote:it could be worse OP

you could feel the same way making 75k a year.


or less, I know attorneys making 40k

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Desert Fox
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:07 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
fats provolone wrote:the key is to stop worrying so much


fats provolone with yet another horrendously underrated post.

The key to surviving biglaw is caring just enough to get the job done without any negative comments or aspersions on your reputation at the firm (which, for first years, is a surprisingly low threshold). If you try to make everything perfect, you're going to go nuts. Literally.


Sorry, but the precision demanded the bolded will never happen if you aren't stressing the details. Hell it won't even happen if you stress the details. That is part of not worrying.

You are going to make a typo, you are going to miss a document, you are going to not find a semi decent case, you aren't going to cite some stuff right.

I'm focusing on the big picture stuff and trying to "Add value" not spending 8 hours to make sure my cites are correct for a memo. Who knows, I might get shittcanned.

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fats provolone
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby fats provolone » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:09 pm

i think he meant no negative comments between other people at the firm. like don't fuck up to the point where you get a reputation as someone who fucks up. obviously you're gonna get yelled at constantly bc biglaw

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby rpupkin » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:12 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I'm focusing on the big picture stuff and trying to "Add value" not spending 8 hours to make sure my cites are correct for a memo. Who knows, I might get shittcanned.

Interesting approach.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:13 pm

fats provolone wrote:i think he meant no negative comments between other people at the firm. like don't fuck up to the point where you get a reputation as someone who fucks up. obviously you're gonna get yelled at constantly bc biglaw


Yeah, this. No one remembers a comma you misplaced 8 months ago.

Midlevels/senior associates know who the shitty juniors are, and it has nothing to do with grammar (as long as it isn't so bad that we question your basic understanding of the English language). Word spreads fast.

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:23 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
fats provolone wrote:i think he meant no negative comments between other people at the firm. like don't fuck up to the point where you get a reputation as someone who fucks up. obviously you're gonna get yelled at constantly bc biglaw


Yeah, this. No one remembers a comma you misplaced 8 months ago.

Midlevels/senior associates know who the shitty juniors are, and it has nothing to do with grammar (as long as it isn't so bad that we question your basic understanding of the English language). Word spreads fast.


I disagree. I think what midlevels and senior call shitty work wildly varies and there are midlevels who will mercilessly shittalk talk you for you no reason.

I recently found out my midlevel suggested I get no offered because I "fucked up" the font on a memo for her twice. In her mind that mean that I used Times new roman for the body and Arial for titles.

People in this industry are mentally ill.

Yea like 99% of the time a comma or a missed document is NBD.

But there is a reason there is a mantra about "If you can't get the small details right, how can I trust you to get the big ones correct." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. Clients will say the same thing (then bitch about we over bill shit).

It is mostly about luck and not fucking up something that either matters or is actually found.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fats provolone
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby fats provolone » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:25 pm

I recently found out my midlevel suggested I get no offered because I "fucked up" the font on a memo for her twice. In her mind that mean that I used Times new roman for the body and Arial for titles.

"on balance, unbalanced"

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby v5junior » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:37 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
fats provolone wrote:i think he meant no negative comments between other people at the firm. like don't fuck up to the point where you get a reputation as someone who fucks up. obviously you're gonna get yelled at constantly bc biglaw


Yeah, this. No one remembers a comma you misplaced 8 months ago.

Midlevels/senior associates know who the shitty juniors are, and it has nothing to do with grammar (as long as it isn't so bad that we question your basic understanding of the English language). Word spreads fast.


I disagree. I think what midlevels and senior call shitty work wildly varies and there are midlevels who will mercilessly shittalk talk you for you no reason.

I recently found out my midlevel suggested I get no offered because I "fucked up" the font on a memo for her twice. In her mind that mean that I used Times new roman for the body and Arial for titles.

People in this industry are mentally ill.

Yea like 99% of the time a comma or a missed document is NBD.

But there is a reason there is a mantra about "If you can't get the small details right, how can I trust you to get the big ones correct." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. Clients will say the same thing (then bitch about we over bill shit).

It is mostly about luck and not fucking up something that either matters or is actually found.


A thousand times this.

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:41 pm

not everyone in big law is mentally ill. But enough to ruin the culture. Then there are the nazi colaboraters who won't murder you in a shallow grave you dug, but will mak excuses for those who do.

I just gotta Anne frank until I get midlvevl so I can force the adderal work on someone else.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:05 pm

Bro, you know what I'm talking about, though. There are some associates who just demonstrably worse. They take too long to get shit done and their work product is shitty. Or do you work in a firm like SullCrom where everyone is gunning for 100% perfection all the time? A lot of the shitty associates know their work is shitty and they don't give a fuck because they know they are leaving soon to, for example, have a kid or start another job they secretly lined up.

I mean, I personally wouldn't give a fuck if I DIDN'T HAVE TO REDO EVERY FUCKING THING WITH A FEW HOURS NOTICE sometimes and then get blamed for everything (because I refuse to pass blame on to juniors).

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby los blancos » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:16 pm

This shit is blowing my mind. Like I must just be naive but I can't imagine someone in my iffice getting reprimanded for the wrong fucking font unless it's comic sans.

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby rpupkin » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:17 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Bro, you know what I'm talking about, though. There are some associates who just demonstrably worse. They take too long to get shit done and their work product is shitty. Or do you work in a firm like SullCrom where everyone is gunning for 100% perfection all the time? A lot of the shitty associates know their work is shitty and they don't give a fuck because they know they are leaving soon to, for example, have a kid or start another job they secretly lined up.

I have never worked at SullCrom, but I am sure there are shitty junior associates there as well. They're everywhere. I may even be one.

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los blancos
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby los blancos » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:19 pm

Desert Fox wrote:." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. .


Who the fuck ARE these people

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los blancos
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby los blancos » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:20 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Bro, you know what I'm talking about, though. There are some associates who just demonstrably worse. They take too long to get shit done and their work product is shitty. Or do you work in a firm like SullCrom where everyone is gunning for 100% perfection all the time? A lot of the shitty associates know their work is shitty and they don't give a fuck because they know they are leaving soon to, for example, have a kid or start another job they secretly lined up.

I have never worked at SullCrom, but I am sure there are shitty junior associates there as well. They're everywhere. I may even be one.


I'm probably a shitty junior, but more bc of my attitude than my wp

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby SFB222 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:29 pm

I had an epiphany today at work (i'm a fourth year associate): here's what sucks about working at a firm, to meet your hours you pretty much have to work the WHOLE time while you're at work. Day after day, this starts to grind on you and you feel bad about yourself on days you're less efficient--"oh i've been here all day but only billed 4 hours, how??" Anecdotally, I hear that most other jobs aren't like this--rather, you can zone out, chat it up with co-workers, etc. even if you have to be there for a set amount of time. To quote Peter Gibbons: "Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work."

Mmmmmm....that sure would be nice sometimes.

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rpupkin
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby rpupkin » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:31 pm

SFB222 wrote:I had an epiphany today at work (i'm a fourth year associate): here's what sucks about working at a firm, to meet your hours you pretty much have to work the WHOLE time while you're at work. Day after day, this starts to grind on you and you feel bad about yourself on days you're less efficient--"oh i've been here all day but only billed 4 hours, how??" Anecdotally, I hear that most other jobs aren't like this--rather, you can zone out, chat it up with co-workers, etc. even if you have to be there for a set amount of time.

This is true.

Once I started billing at a law firm, I realized how massively inefficient I was in my prior career. I miss those times.

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fats provolone
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby fats provolone » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:01 am

los blancos wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. .


Who the fuck ARE these people

um like every clerk I've ever met?

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los blancos
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby los blancos » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:37 am

fats provolone wrote:
los blancos wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. .


Who the fuck ARE these people

um like every clerk I've ever met?


I don't doubt it, it just blows my mind because I felt the exact opposite way when I was clerking. Like if someone wrote a shitty brief or completely missed an issue or was otherwise clearly incompetent it was mostly frustrating because I felt like I was implicitly put in the position of making their arguments for them and couldn't just go "ha ha ur an idiot, CHECKMATE"

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby ymmv » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:47 am

los blancos wrote:
fats provolone wrote:
los blancos wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. .


Who the fuck ARE these people

um like every clerk I've ever met?


I don't doubt it, it just blows my mind because I felt the exact opposite way when I was clerking. Like if someone wrote a shitty brief or completely missed an issue or was otherwise clearly incompetent it was mostly frustrating because I felt like I was implicitly put in the position of making their arguments for them and couldn't just go "ha ha ur an idiot, CHECKMATE"


^ The clerks I worked with with the chillest and most charitable people I've met since starting law school. I kind of assumed it was the norm.

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fats provolone
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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby fats provolone » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:21 am

los blancos wrote:
fats provolone wrote:
los blancos wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. .


Who the fuck ARE these people

um like every clerk I've ever met?


I don't doubt it, it just blows my mind because I felt the exact opposite way when I was clerking. Like if someone wrote a shitty brief or completely missed an issue or was otherwise clearly incompetent it was mostly frustrating because I felt like I was implicitly put in the position of making their arguments for them and couldn't just go "ha ha ur an idiot, CHECKMATE"

I'm guessing you didn't go to Harvard

and I mean that as a compliment

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Re: Quitting BigLaw after less than one year

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:52 am

The mentally ill stories are not exaggerated. I worked for an associate who absolutely freaked out on me for inadvertely making a couple commas bold. Got absolutely chewed out by a partner for writing fifteen hundred in a document instead of one thousand five hundred.




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