Quitting BigLaw after less than one year Forum

[Anonymous User]

Don't have any amazing words of wisdom for OP. But I will say that you are not alone. This job has me in perpetual fear of fucking up. And everyone has a way of making your fuck ups seem more important than they are.

Try to let it go, and know that everyone expects almost nothing of you. Just put in effort, try to learn, and try not to make the same mistakes repeatedly.

If there are any decent seniors or partners in your group, try to seek them out and work for them as much as possible. I recently found one senior in my group who is fantastic, and she's single handedly kept me sane.

[Autumnb13]

I'm trying to care less but I think people are noticing...

[Johann]

yeah sorry. you're going to get yelled at regardless. part of not caring is not taking what people say personally. is there anyone you like working for? try and get more work from them?

[dabigchina]

it could be worse OP

you could feel the same way making 75k a year.

[SFB222]

it could be worse OP

you could feel the same way making 75k a year.

or less, I know attorneys making 40k

[Desert Fox]

the key is to stop worrying so much

fats provolone with yet another horrendously underrated post.

The key to surviving biglaw is caring just enough to get the job done without any negative comments or aspersions on your reputation at the firm (which, for first years, is a surprisingly low threshold). If you try to make everything perfect, you're going to go nuts. Literally.

Sorry, but the precision demanded the bolded will never happen if you aren't stressing the details. Hell it won't even happen if you stress the details. That is part of not worrying.

You are going to make a typo, you are going to miss a document, you are going to not find a semi decent case, you aren't going to cite some stuff right.

I'm focusing on the big picture stuff and trying to "Add value" not spending 8 hours to make sure my cites are correct for a memo. Who knows, I might get shittcanned.

[fats provolone]

i think he meant no negative comments between other people at the firm. like don't fuck up to the point where you get a reputation as someone who fucks up. obviously you're gonna get yelled at constantly bc biglaw

[rpupkin]

I'm focusing on the big picture stuff and trying to "Add value" not spending 8 hours to make sure my cites are correct for a memo. Who knows, I might get shittcanned.

Interesting approach.

[84651846190]

i think he meant no negative comments between other people at the firm. like don't fuck up to the point where you get a reputation as someone who fucks up. obviously you're gonna get yelled at constantly bc biglaw

Yeah, this. No one remembers a comma you misplaced 8 months ago.

Midlevels/senior associates know who the shitty juniors are, and it has nothing to do with grammar (as long as it isn't so bad that we question your basic understanding of the English language). Word spreads fast.

[Desert Fox]

i think he meant no negative comments between other people at the firm. like don't fuck up to the point where you get a reputation as someone who fucks up. obviously you're gonna get yelled at constantly bc biglaw

Yeah, this. No one remembers a comma you misplaced 8 months ago.

Midlevels/senior associates know who the shitty juniors are, and it has nothing to do with grammar (as long as it isn't so bad that we question your basic understanding of the English language). Word spreads fast.

I disagree. I think what midlevels and senior call shitty work wildly varies and there are midlevels who will mercilessly shittalk talk you for you no reason.

I recently found out my midlevel suggested I get no offered because I "fucked up" the font on a memo for her twice. In her mind that mean that I used Times new roman for the body and Arial for titles.

People in this industry are mentally ill.

Yea like 99% of the time a comma or a missed document is NBD.

But there is a reason there is a mantra about "If you can't get the small details right, how can I trust you to get the big ones correct." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. Clients will say the same thing (then bitch about we over bill shit).

It is mostly about luck and not fucking up something that either matters or is actually found.

[fats provolone]

I recently found out my midlevel suggested I get no offered because I "fucked up" the font on a memo for her twice. In her mind that mean that I used Times new roman for the body and Arial for titles.

"on balance, unbalanced"

[v5junior]

i think he meant no negative comments between other people at the firm. like don't fuck up to the point where you get a reputation as someone who fucks up. obviously you're gonna get yelled at constantly bc biglaw

Yeah, this. No one remembers a comma you misplaced 8 months ago.

Midlevels/senior associates know who the shitty juniors are, and it has nothing to do with grammar (as long as it isn't so bad that we question your basic understanding of the English language). Word spreads fast.

I disagree. I think what midlevels and senior call shitty work wildly varies and there are midlevels who will mercilessly shittalk talk you for you no reason.

I recently found out my midlevel suggested I get no offered because I "fucked up" the font on a memo for her twice. In her mind that mean that I used Times new roman for the body and Arial for titles.

People in this industry are mentally ill.

Yea like 99% of the time a comma or a missed document is NBD.

But there is a reason there is a mantra about "If you can't get the small details right, how can I trust you to get the big ones correct." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. Clients will say the same thing (then bitch about we over bill shit).

It is mostly about luck and not fucking up something that either matters or is actually found.

A thousand times this.

[Desert Fox]

not everyone in big law is mentally ill. But enough to ruin the culture. Then there are the nazi colaboraters who won't murder you in a shallow grave you dug, but will mak excuses for those who do.

I just gotta Anne frank until I get midlvevl so I can force the adderal work on someone else.

[84651846190]

Bro, you know what I'm talking about, though. There are some associates who just demonstrably worse. They take too long to get shit done and their work product is shitty. Or do you work in a firm like SullCrom where everyone is gunning for 100% perfection all the time? A lot of the shitty associates know their work is shitty and they don't give a fuck because they know they are leaving soon to, for example, have a kid or start another job they secretly lined up.

I mean, I personally wouldn't give a fuck if I DIDN'T HAVE TO REDO EVERY FUCKING THING WITH A FEW HOURS NOTICE sometimes and then get blamed for everything (because I refuse to pass blame on to juniors).

[los blancos]

This shit is blowing my mind. Like I must just be naive but I can't imagine someone in my iffice getting reprimanded for the wrong fucking font unless it's comic sans.

[rpupkin]

Bro, you know what I'm talking about, though. There are some associates who just demonstrably worse. They take too long to get shit done and their work product is shitty. Or do you work in a firm like SullCrom where everyone is gunning for 100% perfection all the time? A lot of the shitty associates know their work is shitty and they don't give a fuck because they know they are leaving soon to, for example, have a kid or start another job they secretly lined up.

I have never worked at SullCrom, but I am sure there are shitty junior associates there as well. They're everywhere. I may even be one.

[los blancos]

." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. .

Who the fuck ARE these people

[los blancos]

Bro, you know what I'm talking about, though. There are some associates who just demonstrably worse. They take too long to get shit done and their work product is shitty. Or do you work in a firm like SullCrom where everyone is gunning for 100% perfection all the time? A lot of the shitty associates know their work is shitty and they don't give a fuck because they know they are leaving soon to, for example, have a kid or start another job they secretly lined up.

I have never worked at SullCrom, but I am sure there are shitty junior associates there as well. They're everywhere. I may even be one.

I'm probably a shitty junior, but more bc of my attitude than my wp

[SFB222]

I had an epiphany today at work (i'm a fourth year associate): here's what sucks about working at a firm, to meet your hours you pretty much have to work the WHOLE time while you're at work. Day after day, this starts to grind on you and you feel bad about yourself on days you're less efficient--"oh i've been here all day but only billed 4 hours, how??" Anecdotally, I hear that most other jobs aren't like this--rather, you can zone out, chat it up with co-workers, etc. even if you have to be there for a set amount of time. To quote Peter Gibbons: "Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work."

Mmmmmm....that sure would be nice sometimes.

[rpupkin]

I had an epiphany today at work (i'm a fourth year associate): here's what sucks about working at a firm, to meet your hours you pretty much have to work the WHOLE time while you're at work. Day after day, this starts to grind on you and you feel bad about yourself on days you're less efficient--"oh i've been here all day but only billed 4 hours, how??" Anecdotally, I hear that most other jobs aren't like this--rather, you can zone out, chat it up with co-workers, etc. even if you have to be there for a set amount of time.

This is true.

Once I started billing at a law firm, I realized how massively inefficient I was in my prior career. I miss those times.

[fats provolone]

." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. .

Who the fuck ARE these people

um like every clerk I've ever met?

[los blancos]

." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. .

Who the fuck ARE these people

um like every clerk I've ever met?

I don't doubt it, it just blows my mind because I felt the exact opposite way when I was clerking. Like if someone wrote a shitty brief or completely missed an issue or was otherwise clearly incompetent it was mostly frustrating because I felt like I was implicitly put in the position of making their arguments for them and couldn't just go "ha ha ur an idiot, CHECKMATE"

[ymmv]

." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. .

Who the fuck ARE these people

um like every clerk I've ever met?

I don't doubt it, it just blows my mind because I felt the exact opposite way when I was clerking. Like if someone wrote a shitty brief or completely missed an issue or was otherwise clearly incompetent it was mostly frustrating because I felt like I was implicitly put in the position of making their arguments for them and couldn't just go "ha ha ur an idiot, CHECKMATE"

^ The clerks I worked with with the chillest and most charitable people I've met since starting law school. I kind of assumed it was the norm.

[fats provolone]

." Clerks will proudly talk about discounting entire breifs because of a few typos or miss-cites. .

Who the fuck ARE these people

um like every clerk I've ever met?

I don't doubt it, it just blows my mind because I felt the exact opposite way when I was clerking. Like if someone wrote a shitty brief or completely missed an issue or was otherwise clearly incompetent it was mostly frustrating because I felt like I was implicitly put in the position of making their arguments for them and couldn't just go "ha ha ur an idiot, CHECKMATE"

I'm guessing you didn't go to Harvard

and I mean that as a compliment

[Anonymous User]

The mentally ill stories are not exaggerated. I worked for an associate who absolutely freaked out on me for inadvertely making a couple commas bold. Got absolutely chewed out by a partner for writing fifteen hundred in a document instead of one thousand five hundred.