From Law to Teaching

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ballcaps
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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby ballcaps » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:33 pm

ballcaps wrote:certainly not when compared to the decision to switch careers after a terminal degree.

swadianfc wrote:yes, but that's not what we're discussing here

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 3L...I am looking at other things to do with my degree

apparently that's exactly what we're discussing.


swadianfc wrote:Where do you teach that certification is "loosely time-bound?"

the largest public education system in the country.

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Kinky John
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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Kinky John » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:40 pm

Right that's why everyone is advising OP to shut up and hustle for a job. "Looking at other things to do with my degree" is not the same as "[deciding] to switch careers after a terminal degree." We're discussing whether it's feasible to move from LS to teaching, not whether OP should.

NYC is a different animal than NY state so I defer to you on that. If you'd prefer not to teach in the Bronx, Camden, Detroit, or Compton, you'll generally need certification.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:45 pm

swadianfc wrote:
ballcaps wrote:OP, certification should be your last concern right now, as most schools can even hire you without one (although pretty soon you'll need to start pursuing a master's if you enter the classroom.)


Depends on your state re: a master's degree. If you want to teach, getting certified is one of your primary concerns. No state will fully license you right off the bat but you'll need your state's provisional cert. or whatever they might call it in order to teach. The requirements for that are definitely something to consider.

+1 for exposure to teaching though.

What's preferable--an alternative certification program (i.e. TFA, NYC Teaching Fellows) or the normal route?


Are you looking to teach anywhere or specifically in NYC?


OP here. I am open to teaching anywhere.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:46 pm

Are education masters programs graded on a forced curve a la law school? That was one of the things I hated most about lawl school.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:48 pm

Should I keep the JD on the resume when applying to teaching assistant positions? Can't hurt, right?

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby ballcaps » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:50 pm

swadianfc wrote:Right that's why everyone is advising OP to shut up and hustle for a job.

um, who said that?


swadianfc wrote:"Looking at other things to do with my degree" is not the same as "[deciding] to switch careers after a terminal degree." We're discussing whether it's feasible to move from LS to teaching, not whether OP should.

thank you for that extremely relevant semantic distinction.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby ballcaps » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are education masters programs graded on a forced curve a la law school? That was one of the things I hated most about lawl school.


grades don't matter whatsoever, and m.ed./m.a.t. programs are among the easiest graduate programs that exist.

my grades were based on a proprietary grading system that no third party understands anyway.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:58 pm

With a JD would I be overqualified for this: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/education-traini ... stants.htm

I want to dip my toes into teaching before taking the plunge and enrolling in a certification program.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Kinky John » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:00 pm

ballcaps wrote:
swadianfc wrote:Right that's why everyone is advising OP to shut up and hustle for a job.

um, who said that? that was sarcasm. What OP should really do is invent a time machine, go back three years, and prevent his former self from going to law school. Or go back 30 years and kill his parents so he never exists because life isn't really worth living, is it :cry:


swadianfc wrote:"Looking at other things to do with my degree" is not the same as "[deciding] to switch careers after a terminal degree." We're discussing whether it's feasible to move from LS to teaching, not whether OP should.

thank you for that extremely relevant semantic distinction.


Why does this have to be a pissing match?

You said that certification is small potatoes compared to switching careers - yeah, no shit. But when it comes to education, certification is very important outside of NYC and other urban areas. Your experience is relevant for NYC but not for the whole country.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby ballcaps » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:17 pm

ballcaps wrote:certainly not when compared to the decision to switch careers after a terminal degree.

swadianfc wrote:yes, but that's not what we're discussing here

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 3L...I am looking at other things to do with my degree

ballcaps wrote:apparently that's exactly what we're discussing.

swadianfc wrote:Right that's why everyone is advising OP to shut up and hustle for a job.

ballcaps wrote:um, who said that?

swadianfc wrote:that was sarcasm.


:?: :?: :?:

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:22 pm

Would the JD itself merit a pay bump as an advanced degree? Or would only a relevant degree (i.e. M.Ed.,M.A.T.) merit a pay bump?

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:23 pm

I did fairly well in undergrad (3.8+, magna, Phi Beta Kappa) but did terribly in lawl school (3.006, bottom 10-15%). Will my poor lawl school record affect my ability to get a teaching jerb?

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Kinky John » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Would the JD itself merit a pay bump as an advanced degree? Or would only a relevant degree (i.e. M.Ed.,M.A.T.) merit a pay bump?


JD would probably give you a pay bump but as a new teacher that may work against you in hiring.

ballcaps wrote: :?: :?: :?:


What part went over your head, I'll try and explain.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:39 pm

Anyone know anything about the teaching jerb market in PA, specifically Philadelphia?

Is it glutted?

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Kinky John
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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Kinky John » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:42 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Anyone know anything about the teaching jerb market in PA, specifically Philadelphia?

Is it glutted?


PA is absolutely glutted, Philly not so much.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:46 pm

I was a New York Teaching Fellow before law school and though it was a great way to obtain certification while also teaching. You are enrolled in a Master's degree while at a school, so you end up getting that Master's pay bump. I had a friend who was a former lawyer who joined up (don't know specifically whether she got a pay bump for the J.D.). Also, as a fluent Spanish speaker, you will be much more competitive. Also, the Master's is subsidized in NYC, so you aren't paying that much more for more education.

TF has programs in cities all over the country as well, so I would recommend looking into that. The program is much more focused on career changers than fresh out of college folks (like TFA tends to be), so it may work better for OP.

To repeat other posters, teaching is very difficult and can be one of the most exhausting things you'll ever do. At the same time, it is often one of the most rewarding. Good luck OP.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby JerryLundegard » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:49 pm

A JD gets you a sizeable bump in the payscale as an advanced degree.

No market is truly glutted in this country. Yt blows my mind that education majors complain that they can't find work when the city twenty minutes away from them could have them a job by day's end. Teachers, especially in urban areas, are desperately needed and the turnover rate(as you would expect) is rather high.

The route to certification through non traditional means is very loosely time bound like OP said. Most states will continue renewing your provisional cert so long as you can document that you are working towards certification(be It a masters or not)

I teach in urban Kansas City. My grad school program giving me my masters is an absolute laughing stock. And yet it is a state flagship institution.

The moral of the story: if you're willing to leave the cushy confines of suburbia and woulda me to make a difference in students lives(which you will merely from the fact that you care) go j to urban education. Please. We need you.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:56 pm

JerryLundegard wrote:A JD gets you a sizeable bump in the payscale as an advanced degree.

No market is truly glutted in this country. Yt blows my mind that education majors complain that they can't find work when the city twenty minutes away from them could have them a job by day's end. Teachers, especially in urban areas, are desperately needed and the turnover rate(as you would expect) is rather high.

The route to certification through non traditional means is very loosely time bound like OP said. Most states will continue renewing your provisional cert so long as you can document that you are working towards certification(be It a masters or not)

I teach in urban Kansas City. My grad school program giving me my masters is an absolute laughing stock. And yet it is a state flagship institution.

The moral of the story: if you're willing to leave the cushy confines of suburbia and woulda me to make a difference in students lives(which you will merely from the fact that you care) go j to urban education. Please. We need you.


OP here. I am interested in urban education, as my City Year experience demonstrates. Glad to know that it is a bit easier to get positions in the big cities as opposed to the suburbs.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Kinky John » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:06 pm

JerryLundegard wrote:A JD gets you a sizeable bump in the payscale as an advanced degree.

No market is truly glutted in this country. Yt blows my mind that education majors complain that they can't find work when the city twenty minutes away from them could have them a job by day's end. Teachers, especially in urban areas, are desperately needed and the turnover rate(as you would expect) is rather high.

The route to certification through non traditional means is very loosely time bound like OP said. Most states will continue renewing your provisional cert so long as you can document that you are working towards certification(be It a masters or not)

I teach in urban Kansas City. My grad school program giving me my masters is an absolute laughing stock. And yet it is a state flagship institution.

The moral of the story: if you're willing to leave the cushy confines of suburbia and woulda me to make a difference in students lives(which you will merely from the fact that you care) go j to urban education. Please. We need you.


There are absolutely places in this country where there's a glut of teachers, and not surprisingly they're affluent suburban areas. There's a reason some schools have high turnover and if you're ok with that, go right ahead.

The route to certification through non traditional means is very loosely time bound like OP said. Most states will continue renewing your provisional cert so long as you can document that you are working towards certification(be It a masters or not)


This depends on the specific route you're taking and which state you're taking it in. In general, the process for certification (any route) has strict deadlines and requirements you need to meet within those deadlines - not "loosely time-bound." After you've gotten the provisional, yes, you're set.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby ballcaps » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:09 pm

swadianfc wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Would the JD itself merit a pay bump as an advanced degree? Or would only a relevant degree (i.e. M.Ed.,M.A.T.) merit a pay bump?


JD would probably give you a pay bump but as a new teacher that may work against you in hiring.

ballcaps wrote: :?: :?: :?:


What part went over your head, I'll try and explain.


i'm not going to continue this.

however, you should reread my post above, as i think it illustrates how remarkably nonsensical your comments in this thread have been.

have a great day!

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:10 pm

ballcaps wrote:
swadianfc wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Would the JD itself merit a pay bump as an advanced degree? Or would only a relevant degree (i.e. M.Ed.,M.A.T.) merit a pay bump?


JD would probably give you a pay bump but as a new teacher that may work against you in hiring.

ballcaps wrote: :?: :?: :?:


What part went over your head, I'll try and explain.


i'm not going to continue this.

however, you should reread my post above, as i think it illustrates how remarkably nonsensical your comments in this thread have been.

have a great day!


OP here. ballcaps, why did you decide to switch from teaching to law? what did you find unsatisfying about teaching?

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Kinky John
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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Kinky John » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:12 pm

ballcaps wrote:
swadianfc wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Would the JD itself merit a pay bump as an advanced degree? Or would only a relevant degree (i.e. M.Ed.,M.A.T.) merit a pay bump?


JD would probably give you a pay bump but as a new teacher that may work against you in hiring.

ballcaps wrote: :?: :?: :?:


What part went over your head, I'll try and explain.


i'm not going to continue this.

however, you should reread my post above, as i think it illustrates how remarkably nonsensical your comments in this thread have been.

have a great day!


It must be such a burden being right all the time, how do you cope! :mrgreen:

Best of luck in the future.

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ballcaps
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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby ballcaps » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:what did you find unsatisfying about teaching?


$$$

literally, that's it. i'm in a particularly good situation vis-a-vis job/role/school. large network of schools with plenty of resources, my principal is competent, i like my colleagues, etc.

if all that's true, and you're suited for the work, then quality of life is basically max.

the only thing that never really catches up is pay. :(

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Kinky John
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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Kinky John » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:20 pm

ballcaps wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:what did you find unsatisfying about teaching?


$$$

literally, that's it. i'm in a particularly good situation vis-a-vis job/role/school. large network of schools with plenty of resources, my principal is competent, i like my colleagues, etc.

if all that's true, and you're suited for the work, then quality of life is basically max.

the only thing that never really catches up is pay. :(


Out of curiosity, why not look for a job in Westchester or Nassau? Better payscales and benefits.

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Re: From Law to Teaching

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:23 pm

ballcaps wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:what did you find unsatisfying about teaching?


$$$

literally, that's it. i'm in a particularly good situation vis-a-vis job/role/school. large network of schools with plenty of resources, my principal is competent, i like my colleagues, etc.

if all that's true, and you're suited for the work, then quality of life is basically max.

the only thing that never really catches up is pay. :(


Do you want to go into education law/policy?




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