Biglaw Salaries going up?

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:16 pm

BigZuck wrote:I know yay no income tax is the refrain for a reason but isn't the property tax in TX pretty high? That 3000 square foot wife is going to be a drain every year. (I guess maybe the answer is rent forever but this is America, dammit, if you're not treking in from Sugarland every day or buying your 500K cottage in the Heights you ain't livin').

No doubt Houston is cheaper than NYC and young single people rocking out in their nice 2K a month apartments in midtown have it pretty good but it's nowhere near the "Just do buy a mansion bro, you'll have benjamins falling out of your butt" that people who have never lived there think it is. You actually probably can buy a huge house which is impossible in NYC but it'll be in one of the many Lands and to me that's a fate worse than death. Hell, it's probably a fate worse than NYC. If you make partner then you might be able to live it up inside the loop somewhere but we all know how realistic that is.

I've lived in expensive cities (granted not NYC) and I have lived in TX. The big difference I notice is rent. You can get something in TX that is 3-4 times more expensive (or more) in an expensive city. After that? I guess bar drinks are cheaper, but that depends on where you are drinking (in either city). Restaurants are somewhat cheaper. I'm drawing a blank on what else might be cheaper (basically what Sinfiery said)

Eta: (Wasn't trying to just single you out Shadow, just trying to add to the Houston discussion)


The property tax is Houston is something like 1.8%, IIRC, which is high but the lower overall values mean it's not a higher total sum than you pay on 1,500 sq ft within 45 minutes minutes of Midtown NYC.

I don't know if it's balling out of control but you can find a really nice 2000-2500 sq ft place inside the Loop for like $400k without much of an issue. Or, if you went the $200k route for the Lands and you were debt-free, you could completely pay off a house in like three years. That's as close to Benjamins falling out of your butt as you can get at 25.

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wiz
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby wiz » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:40 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:you should prolly look at what nyc real estate costs. buying isnt even on the table there.

Yeah, that's kind of a weird comparison. Lol at complaining because your 400k McMansion is a 45 minute commute from the office.

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:49 pm

wiz wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:you should prolly look at what nyc real estate costs. buying isnt even on the table there.

Yeah, that's kind of a weird comparison. Lol at complaining because your 400k McMansion is a 45 minute commute from the office.

I'm not sure I understand

I know Texans are all bout dat commute to strip mall oblivion every day but I just couldn't do it. I refuse. No way.

I also don't think it would be "only" 45 mins in Houston.

I know it's impossible to buy anything in NYC but the stuff people have in mind when they talk about being able to buy in TX (the 3000 square foot house/wife combo) isn't exactly my vision of "the dream"

Eta: I guess all I was saying regarding buying was if you want to live within a reasonable commute of downtown and have a nice place it's gonna be pretty pricey. But of course that's not even possible in NYC, so yay Texas
Last edited by BigZuck on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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2014
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby 2014 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:56 pm

This discussion is stupid there's like 100 jobs in Houston and not everyone wants to do oil and gas shit or can even access the market because of complete lack of interview narrative other than "COL LOL".

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby BigZuck » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:00 am

2014 wrote:This discussion is stupid there's like 100 jobs in Houston and not everyone wants to do oil and gas shit or can even access the market because of complete lack of interview narrative other than "COL LOL".

I'm just biding my time until someone stumbles in and confirms that NYC has gone to 190

If you can confirm it then by all means, confirm it

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wiz
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby wiz » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:01 am

BigZuck wrote:
wiz wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:you should prolly look at what nyc real estate costs. buying isnt even on the table there.

Yeah, that's kind of a weird comparison. Lol at complaining because your 400k McMansion is a 45 minute commute from the office.

I'm not sure I understand

I know Texans are all bout dat commute to strip mall oblivion every day but I just couldn't do it. I refuse. No way.

I also don't think it would be "only" 45 mins in Houston.

I know it's impossible to buy anything in NYC but the stuff people have in mind when they talk about being able to buy in TX (the 3000 square foot house/wife combo) isn't exactly my vision of "the dream"

You can pay like 5 bucks to HOV it into Houston in the morning (or at least you could as of like 8 months ago), and if you leave the office after 7, it's a 45 (or sub 45) minute drive.

If you don't want to live in the burbs, then don't live in the burbs. But as far as paying down your student loans quickly or saving a bunch of money while you're working biglaw, then working in TX is a pretty good option. Assuming that you're not put off by the thought of working in TX; a lot of people are.

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wiz
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby wiz » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:05 am

2014 wrote:This discussion is stupid there's like 100 jobs in Houston and not everyone wants to do oil and gas shit or can even access the market because of complete lack of interview narrative other than "COL LOL".

There are 400+ SAs in Houston. And it's not nearly as insular as people think these days. T14 with decent grades and a desire to work in Houston (I want to do energy shit, have a good place to raise a family, and the low COL appeals to me) is good enough.

Assuming you're cool with working in TX, and a lot of people aren't for one reason or another, it's a pretty good option if you're looking for a place to quickly pay off student loans or save up or wtv. Since you're a known Chicago shill who frequently hammers home U Chicago #1 because biglaw cost-benefit analysis, it's funny that you find this so stupid.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby UnicornHunter » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:07 am

wiz wrote:
2014 wrote:This discussion is stupid there's like 100 jobs in Houston and not everyone wants to do oil and gas shit or can even access the market because of complete lack of interview narrative other than "COL LOL".

There are 400+ SAs in Houston. And it's not nearly as insular as people think these days. T14 with decent grades and a desire to work in Houston (I want to do energy shit, have a good place to raise a family, and the low COL appeals to me) is good enough.

Assuming you're cool with working in TX, and a lot of people aren't for one reason or another, it's a pretty good option if you're looking for a place to quickly pay off student loans or save up or wtv. Since you're a known Chicago shill who frequently hammers home U Chicago #1 because biglaw cost-benefit analysis, it's funny that you find this so stupid.


I would absolutely do Houston if my SO would tolerate it, but Texas is a bridge too far.

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby mvp99 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:08 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I know yay no income tax is the refrain for a reason but isn't the property tax in TX pretty high? That 3000 square foot wife is going to be a drain every year. (I guess maybe the answer is rent forever but this is America, dammit, if you're not treking in from Sugarland every day or buying your 500K cottage in the Heights you ain't livin').

No doubt Houston is cheaper than NYC and young single people rocking out in their nice 2K a month apartments in midtown have it pretty good but it's nowhere near the "Just do buy a mansion bro, you'll have benjamins falling out of your butt" that people who have never lived there think it is. You actually probably can buy a huge house which is impossible in NYC but it'll be in one of the many Lands and to me that's a fate worse than death. Hell, it's probably a fate worse than NYC. If you make partner then you might be able to live it up inside the loop somewhere but we all know how realistic that is.

I've lived in expensive cities (granted not NYC) and I have lived in TX. The big difference I notice is rent. You can get something in TX that is 3-4 times more expensive (or more) in an expensive city. After that? I guess bar drinks are cheaper, but that depends on where you are drinking (in either city). Restaurants are somewhat cheaper. I'm drawing a blank on what else might be cheaper (basically what Sinfiery said)

Eta: (Wasn't trying to just single you out Shadow, just trying to add to the Houston discussion)


The property tax is Houston is something like 1.8%, IIRC, which is high but the lower overall values mean it's not a higher total sum than you pay on 1,500 sq ft within 45 minutes minutes of Midtown NYC.

I don't know if it's balling out of control but you can find a really nice 2000-2500 sq ft place inside the Loop for like $400k without much of an issue. Or, if you went the $200k route for the Lands and you were debt-free, you could completely pay off a house in like three years. That's as close to Benjamins falling out of your butt as you can get at 25.


Who wants to live in the loop in Houston? even Houstonians hate it

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby sublime » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:09 am

..

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby 2014 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:16 am

Idk the "Just get a job in Texas" is getting dangerously close to a shitboomer argument.

We (UChi) are up there in terms of Texas placement, certainly per capita and probably more than expected in gross numbers and even then I can think of exactly one person who got Texas without having lived there before and at least two who failed to get it despite having ties. It's probably because of them that I'm skeptical about someone just self selecting into it but if the point is that more people should be open to it then I guess that makes sense but my agenda has always been about maximizing FT employment rather than maximizing utility.

No one can possibly contend that your money doesn't go (significantly) further in Texas because of rent and tax and that's great for loans and on the other hand, no one can possibly contend that for a standard debt laden law grad that the 2.2x or w/e multiplier is accurate because of (mostly) how high our loan payments are as a percentage of our take home (and loan payments DGAF about COL multipliers).

Finally, there has to be SOMETHING said re: the full career perspective which is relatively unknown and under covered on TLS at least. There should be some long term benefit to starting in NY (or at least firms want you to think so) and you would think it's easier to go NY-->Texas than vice versa, so people who aren't committed to loving Texas benefit from the flexibility.

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby BigZuck » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:18 am

mvp99 wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I know yay no income tax is the refrain for a reason but isn't the property tax in TX pretty high? That 3000 square foot wife is going to be a drain every year. (I guess maybe the answer is rent forever but this is America, dammit, if you're not treking in from Sugarland every day or buying your 500K cottage in the Heights you ain't livin').

No doubt Houston is cheaper than NYC and young single people rocking out in their nice 2K a month apartments in midtown have it pretty good but it's nowhere near the "Just do buy a mansion bro, you'll have benjamins falling out of your butt" that people who have never lived there think it is. You actually probably can buy a huge house which is impossible in NYC but it'll be in one of the many Lands and to me that's a fate worse than death. Hell, it's probably a fate worse than NYC. If you make partner then you might be able to live it up inside the loop somewhere but we all know how realistic that is.

I've lived in expensive cities (granted not NYC) and I have lived in TX. The big difference I notice is rent. You can get something in TX that is 3-4 times more expensive (or more) in an expensive city. After that? I guess bar drinks are cheaper, but that depends on where you are drinking (in either city). Restaurants are somewhat cheaper. I'm drawing a blank on what else might be cheaper (basically what Sinfiery said)

Eta: (Wasn't trying to just single you out Shadow, just trying to add to the Houston discussion)


The property tax is Houston is something like 1.8%, IIRC, which is high but the lower overall values mean it's not a higher total sum than you pay on 1,500 sq ft within 45 minutes minutes of Midtown NYC.

I don't know if it's balling out of control but you can find a really nice 2000-2500 sq ft place inside the Loop for like $400k without much of an issue. Or, if you went the $200k route for the Lands and you were debt-free, you could completely pay off a house in like three years. That's as close to Benjamins falling out of your butt as you can get at 25.


Who wants to live in the loop in Houston? even Houstonians hate it

Yeah, living in River Oaks would be a NIGHTMARE

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:26 am

The only city in TX I would live in is Austin. For people who haven't been to Houston it is incredibly sprawling and as far as I know the only major US city without zoning which leads to a very weird distribution of strip clubs, schools, restaurants, nuclear plants.

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby BigZuck » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:28 am

2014 wrote:Idk the "Just get a job in Texas" is getting dangerously close to a shitboomer argument

I can think of exactly one person who got Texas without having lived there before and at least two who failed to get it despite having ties.

:?:
2014 wrote:Idk the current 2Ls well, but we (3Ls) had a few non-ties non-LR people get Texas BL. I can think of maybe one person who wanted it and didn't get it and I think her issue was mostly bidding and not great grades.

I think we broke the shillbot

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby wiz » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:29 am

2014 wrote:Idk the "Just get a job in Texas" is getting dangerously close to a shitboomer argument.

We (UChi) are up there in terms of Texas placement, certainly per capita and probably more than expected in gross numbers and even then I can think of exactly one person who got Texas without having lived there before and at least two who failed to get it despite having ties. It's probably because of them that I'm skeptical about someone just self selecting into it but if the point is that more people should be open to it then I guess that makes sense but my agenda has always been about maximizing FT employment rather than maximizing utility.

No one can possibly contend that your money doesn't go (significantly) further in Texas because of rent and tax and that's great for loans and on the other hand, no one can possibly contend that for a standard debt laden law grad that the 2.2x or w/e multiplier is accurate because of (mostly) how high our loan payments are as a percentage of our take home (and loan payments DGAF about COL multipliers).

Finally, there has to be SOMETHING said re: the full career perspective which is relatively unknown and under covered on TLS at least. There should be some long term benefit to starting in NY (or at least firms want you to think so) and you would think it's easier to go NY-->Texas than vice versa, so people who aren't committed to loving Texas benefit from the flexibility.

I'm not saying it's easier to crack than NYC, but I think that's more a function of how many jobs are available in NYC than Houston being overly ties-conscious. I think the majority of people self-select out of TX because they don't want to live there or because they think it has a Seattle- or Denver-level insularity when it pretty clearly doesn't.

I've already acknowledged that the 2.2x multiplier wasn't a good indicator of the difference between TX and NYC. But regardless of wtv multiplier you're using, it's still a pretty good deal if you don't have an aversion to living there since Houston is probably the lowest COL city with market-paying firms accessible to T14 students.

As to your last point, I definitely agree on the flexibility. If you're unsure about where you want to end up, then a NY firm will give you the most options. But if you were unsure about (or didn't want) to be in TX long term, then I would suggest aiming for one of the national firms with Houston offices like Latham, K&E, STB, Skadden, Jones Day, Akin Gump, etc. There are lots of firms that have opened up offices in Houston over the past 10 years, and if you wanted to lateral back to CA or NY, I've heard stories about Latham/JD/Akin being pretty flexible about that.
Last edited by wiz on Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby BigZuck » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:30 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:The only city in TX I would live in is Austin. For people who haven't been to Houston it is incredibly sprawling and as far as I know the only major US city without zoning which leads to a very weird distribution of strip clubs, schools, restaurants, nuclear plants.

I can think of a few schools near strip clubs in Austin too, I think that's just how Texas rolls

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby twenty 8 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:31 am

Doing some big city expense guessing here. On top of all the high prices and inflated NY/NYC taxes, having no car means taxi transportation is likely $800 a month (9.6k annually, needing to net nearly 14k). With a car NYC parking is likely $600 a month (7k annually, needing is net over 10k). I just don’t see how anyone can think that BL’s extra 20k is enough to cover all the considerable COL deficits. The mid-law firms I know provide ample parking lots at zero or a modest monthly fee. Of course Fla doesn't have a state tax...don't get me started on the weather (it's nearly May and NY is still in the thirties).

I don’t know where the income level needs to be for someone to think NYC is a better deal (or tossup) financially.

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby wiz » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:35 am

BigZuck wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:The only city in TX I would live in is Austin. For people who haven't been to Houston it is incredibly sprawling and as far as I know the only major US city without zoning which leads to a very weird distribution of strip clubs, schools, restaurants, nuclear plants.

I can think of a few schools near strip clubs in Austin too, I think that's just how Texas rolls

It's how Texas recruits college and professional athletes.

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby El Pollito » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:40 am

twenty 8 wrote:Doing some big city expense guessing here. On top of all the high prices and inflated NY/NYC taxes, having no car means taxi transportation is likely $800 a month (9.6k annually, needing to net nearly 14k). With a car NYC parking is likely $600 a month (7k annually, needing is net over 10k). I just don’t see how anyone can think that BL’s extra 20k is enough to cover all the considerable COL deficits. The mid-law firms I know provide ample parking lots at zero or a modest monthly fee. Of course Fla doesn't have a state tax...don't get me started on the weather (it's nearly May and NY is still in the thirties).

I don’t know where the income level needs to be for someone to think NYC is a better deal (or tossup) financially.

lol no fucking way

people take the subway or walk for the most part

if we're cabbing it's usually on the client
Last edited by El Pollito on Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:41 am

Oh I'll just take a $26 cab ride every single day of the year. NYC is so expensive!

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wiz
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby wiz » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:41 am

Are you using uber during 20x surge

mvp99
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby mvp99 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:45 am

BigZuck wrote:
mvp99 wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I know yay no income tax is the refrain for a reason but isn't the property tax in TX pretty high? That 3000 square foot wife is going to be a drain every year. (I guess maybe the answer is rent forever but this is America, dammit, if you're not treking in from Sugarland every day or buying your 500K cottage in the Heights you ain't livin').

No doubt Houston is cheaper than NYC and young single people rocking out in their nice 2K a month apartments in midtown have it pretty good but it's nowhere near the "Just do buy a mansion bro, you'll have benjamins falling out of your butt" that people who have never lived there think it is. You actually probably can buy a huge house which is impossible in NYC but it'll be in one of the many Lands and to me that's a fate worse than death. Hell, it's probably a fate worse than NYC. If you make partner then you might be able to live it up inside the loop somewhere but we all know how realistic that is.

I've lived in expensive cities (granted not NYC) and I have lived in TX. The big difference I notice is rent. You can get something in TX that is 3-4 times more expensive (or more) in an expensive city. After that? I guess bar drinks are cheaper, but that depends on where you are drinking (in either city). Restaurants are somewhat cheaper. I'm drawing a blank on what else might be cheaper (basically what Sinfiery said)

Eta: (Wasn't trying to just single you out Shadow, just trying to add to the Houston discussion)


The property tax is Houston is something like 1.8%, IIRC, which is high but the lower overall values mean it's not a higher total sum than you pay on 1,500 sq ft within 45 minutes minutes of Midtown NYC.

I don't know if it's balling out of control but you can find a really nice 2000-2500 sq ft place inside the Loop for like $400k without much of an issue. Or, if you went the $200k route for the Lands and you were debt-free, you could completely pay off a house in like three years. That's as close to Benjamins falling out of your butt as you can get at 25.


Who wants to live in the loop in Houston? even Houstonians hate it

Yeah, living in River Oaks would be a NIGHTMARE


I don't think we're talking about the same loop

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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby twenty 8 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:47 am

El Pollito wrote:
twenty 8 wrote:Doing some big city expense guessing here. On top of all the high prices and inflated NY/NYC taxes, having no car means taxi transportation is likely $800 a month (9.6k annually, needing to net nearly 14k). With a car NYC parking is likely $600 a month (7k annually, needing is net over 10k). I just don’t see how anyone can think that BL’s extra 20k is enough to cover all the considerable COL deficits. The mid-law firms I know provide ample parking lots at zero or a modest monthly fee. Of course Fla doesn't have a state tax...don't get me started on the weather (it's nearly May and NY is still in the thirties).

I don’t know where the income level needs to be for someone to think NYC is a better deal (or tossup) financially.

lol no fucking way

people take the subway or walk for the most part

if we're cabbing it's usually on the client

I have a NYC friend who stays in the city 4 days a week and she says cabs cost her $200…just sayin’, 200 × 4 weeks = 800.

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wiz
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby wiz » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:48 am

twenty 8 wrote:
El Pollito wrote:
twenty 8 wrote:Doing some big city expense guessing here. On top of all the high prices and inflated NY/NYC taxes, having no car means taxi transportation is likely $800 a month (9.6k annually, needing to net nearly 14k). With a car NYC parking is likely $600 a month (7k annually, needing is net over 10k). I just don’t see how anyone can think that BL’s extra 20k is enough to cover all the considerable COL deficits. The mid-law firms I know provide ample parking lots at zero or a modest monthly fee. Of course Fla doesn't have a state tax...don't get me started on the weather (it's nearly May and NY is still in the thirties).

I don’t know where the income level needs to be for someone to think NYC is a better deal (or tossup) financially.

lol no fucking way

people take the subway or walk for the most part

if we're cabbing it's usually on the client

I have a NYC friend who stays in the city 4 days a week and she says cabs cost her $200…just sayin’, 200 × 4 weeks = 800.

Why doesn't she take the subway?

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El Pollito
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Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby El Pollito » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:48 am

she's rich or dumb or both




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