Biglaw Salaries going up? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.

V&E pays above market?

At Houston taxes/COL, a V&E Houston first-year is taking home $100k AFTER payment on 2000 sq ft. No large firm except for WLRK could claim anything close (except for W&C at their new scale, but they're below DPW for midlevels). That was the gist (although apparently some people at V&E were in fact getting above market bonuses).

I don't think that's right. Charlotte is a significantly cheaper (and better) city and there are at least 4 firms there that pay 160 + full NY Davis Polk bonuses. That puts them at about the highest buying power of anywhere else, given it's the cheapest of the markets that pay 160k + full NY scale bonus structure.

That isn't the point. V&E midlevels who were big billers (which was probably most their corporate group) were receiving bonuses 20+k over DPW bonuses. That means that they were making significantly more because of the fact it was just more money AND because Texas has no state income tax (which North Carolina does). So yes, a midlevel at V&E made significantly more than someone in Charlotte. Charlotte and Houston probably have comparable COL.

Also saying Charlotte is a "better" city is ridiculous. This is hugely subjective and Houston has much better corporate practice opportunity than Charlotte does.

[rpupkin]

An office full of people who were sold by that pitch sounds unimaginably awful.

In fairness to Kirkland, I doubt this was any kind of organized pitch. Maybe a dumb associate said something like that (which would itself tell you something), but no law firm would intentionally present itself to law students like that.

insert on balance in balance joke here.

NEVER FORGET THIS VIDEO PPL

Holy shit. I didn't even get what DF was talking about. Now that I know it was a video reference, I googled it. Amazing. It's like a hostage video where the frightened and demoralized hostages are forced to recite their allegiance to the cause of their captors.

[law&disorder]

People pick S&C because it's a backdoor to Goldman and who doesn't want that.

[AntipodeanPhil]

NEVER FORGET THIS VIDEO PPL

Holy shit. I didn't even get what DF was talking about. Now that I know it was a video reference, I googled it. Amazing. It's like a hostage video where the frightened and demoralized hostages are forced to recite their allegiance to the cause of their captors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgSJUzYCGtc

[lhanvt13]

Idk if anyone posted it yet, but anyone have the buying power index from nalp for this year?

Old one: http://www.nalp.org/buying_power_index_class_of_2011

[BeenDidThat]

In fairness to Kirkland, I doubt this was any kind of organized pitch. Maybe a dumb associate said something like that (which would itself tell you something), but no law firm would intentionally present itself to law students like that.

insert on balance in balance joke here.

NEVER FORGET THIS VIDEO PPL

Holy shit. I didn't even get what DF was talking about. Now that I know it was a video reference, I googled it. Amazing. It's like a hostage video where the frightened and demoralized hostages are forced to recite their allegiance to the cause of their captors.

It's most interesting because you'd have to be a 'berger drone to think videotaping those 'berger drones would make for a good recruiting video. Is K&E utterly devoid of socially competent people? I mean, many firms have lots of people like that, but at least a few savvy people who know what they're doing and tolerate all the morons around them.

[wiz]

Idk if anyone posted it yet, but anyone have the buying power index from nalp for this year?

Old one: http://www.nalp.org/buying_power_index_class_of_2011

This is the latest one I've seen:

http://www.nalp.org/buying_power_index_class_of_2012

I don't think they've released another buying power index since then, but I could be wrong.

[Anonymous User]

An office full of people who were sold by that pitch sounds unimaginably awful.

In fairness to Kirkland, I doubt this was any kind of organized pitch. Maybe a dumb associate said something like that (which would itself tell you something), but no law firm would intentionally present itself to law students like that.

I got told the rockstar or out within the first year thing by multiple partners and associates during my CB. I think that was supposed to be a selling point because it gives special snowflakes the freedom to be entrepreneurial. They also seemed proud to imply they were rockstars.

[Anonymous User]

V&E pays above market?[/quote]

At Houston taxes/COL, a V&E Houston first-year is taking home $100k AFTER payment on 2000 sq ft. No large firm except for WLRK could claim anything close (except for W&C at their new scale, but they're below DPW for midlevels). That was the gist (although apparently some people at V&E were in fact getting above market bonuses).[/quote]

I don't think that's right. Charlotte is a significantly cheaper (and better) city and there are at least 4 firms there that pay 160 + full NY Davis Polk bonuses. That puts them at about the highest buying power of anywhere else, given it's the cheapest of the markets that pay 160k + full NY scale bonus structure.[/quote]

That isn't the point. V&E midlevels who were big billers (which was probably most their corporate group) were receiving bonuses 20+k over DPW bonuses. That means that they were making significantly more because of the fact it was just more money AND because Texas has no state income tax (which North Carolina does). So yes, a midlevel at V&E made significantly more than someone in Charlotte. Charlotte and Houston probably have comparable COL.

Also saying Charlotte is a "better" city is ridiculous. This is hugely subjective and Houston has much better corporate practice opportunity than Charlotte does.[/quote]

First, Charlotte and Houton do not have comparable COL, and bonuses in Charlotte were just as good. When I said Charlotte is a better city, I didn't mean for legal practice. I meant it's a better city to live in - Houston is a total shit hole - not paying state taxes isn't enough - the state would have to pay me to live there. Also, Charlotte is known for its banking and finance practices not corporate, so it's hard to compare opportunities in each city as it really depends what you're interested in (e.g. obviously Houston is better for energy deals, etc., Charlotte for banking, securities litigation).

[sublime]

..

[wiz]

Idk if anyone posted it yet, but anyone have the buying power index from nalp for this year?

Old one: http://www.nalp.org/buying_power_index_class_of_2011

This is the latest one I've seen:

http://www.nalp.org/buying_power_index_class_of_2012

I don't think they've released another buying power index since then, but I could be wrong.

That makes me so fucking depressed every time I see it.

Just lateral to TX, bro.

[sublime]

..

[wiz]

Yeah. And I feel you on Houston, but I think Dallas is a nice balance between decent city, good legal work, and low COL.

[wiz]

I don't think that's right. Charlotte is a significantly cheaper (and better) city and there are at least 4 firms there that pay 160 + full NY Davis Polk bonuses. That puts them at about the highest buying power of anywhere else, given it's the cheapest of the markets that pay 160k + full NY scale bonus structure.

That isn't the point. V&E midlevels who were big billers (which was probably most their corporate group) were receiving bonuses 20+k over DPW bonuses. That means that they were making significantly more because of the fact it was just more money AND because Texas has no state income tax (which North Carolina does). So yes, a midlevel at V&E made significantly more than someone in Charlotte. Charlotte and Houston probably have comparable COL.

Also saying Charlotte is a "better" city is ridiculous. This is hugely subjective and Houston has much better corporate practice opportunity than Charlotte does.

First, Charlotte and Houton do not have comparable COL, and bonuses in Charlotte were just as good. When I said Charlotte is a better city, I didn't mean for legal practice. I meant it's a better city to live in - Houston is a total shit hole - not paying state taxes isn't enough - the state would have to pay me to live there. Also, Charlotte is known for its banking and finance practices not corporate, so it's hard to compare opportunities in each city as it really depends what you're interested in (e.g. obviously Houston is better for energy deals, etc., Charlotte for banking, securities litigation).

Salary Required to Yield New York City Buying Power
Charlotte: 67,250
Houston: 67,320

[chuckbass]

Would like to eventually get back to FL, but who knows wtf is up with that legal market.

No offense, but I am good on living in Houston.

You going (back?) to TX, Wiz?

Shh you're going to love NYC <3

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

This NALP thing is a little exaggerated. It's not true that NYC is 2.5-3 times more expensive than some of these cities. It's true for housing but everything else is more like 1-1.5.

[Yukos]

I don't know how you look at that chart and don't conclude LA is the place to be.

[wiz]

This NALP thing is a little exaggerated. It's not true that NYC is 2.5-3 times more expensive than some of these cities. It's true for housing but everything else is more like 1-1.5.

Housing is the largest cost, though.




That said, I agree with you that it's exaggerated at the 60-70k level because you just won't have that much disposable income, especially if you're paying off loans.

[wiz]

I don't know how you look at that chart and don't conclude LA is the place to be.

Because you could say the same thing about Chicago, Austin, Dallas, Boston, or DC.

[SplitMyPants]

This NALP thing is a little exaggerated. It's not true that NYC is 2.5-3 times more expensive than some of these cities. It's true for housing but everything else is more like 1-1.5.

Plus it assumes you spend 100% of your income, and do so only on goods/services in the city.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Yeah, I mean housing is a big cost but if I'm paying $2500 I'm NYC and I would pay $1000 a month in Houston, that's $18k a year difference, after tax. I could believe $160k NYC equals $100 or 110k in Houston.

[Mal Reynolds]

I don't know how you look at that chart and don't conclude LA is the place to be.

LA sucks.

[wiz]

Yeah, I mean housing is a big cost but if I'm paying $2500 I'm NYC and I would pay $1000 a month in Houston, that's $18k a year difference, after tax. I could believe $160k NYC equals $100 or 110k in Houston.

I agree with you on NALP exaggerating the difference, but I'd be interested in seeing how far 70k could take you in Houston/Dallas vs. 160k in NYC.

Really crude calculations: After-tax income on a 160k salary in NYC is about 96k? And after-tax on a 70k salary in TX might be around 50k? Say housing drops you down to 66k in NYC and 40k in TX. After accounting for some of the less extreme COL differences, I could see the difference only being 10-20k apart.

But the problem again is that there's little sense in comparing disposable income if $1 in NYC student loans still equals $1 in TX student loans.

[Yukos]

I don't know how you look at that chart and don't conclude LA is the place to be.

LA sucks.

The coldest moment of the coldest day of the year in LA is warmer than the high in Chicago today. And it's almost May.

[wiz]

I don't know how you look at that chart and don't conclude LA is the place to be.

LA sucks.

Yeah, if I were balancing non-suckiness of a city with COL and legal market, then I don't see how Chicago wouldn't kill LA. Better city and lower COL. Both have good legal work.