Biglaw Salaries going up?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
twenty 8
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:45 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby twenty 8 » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:53 pm

Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.

User avatar
UnicornHunter
Posts: 13507
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby UnicornHunter » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:56 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:Seems like firms budget for attrition in their current base salaries though. Firms were paying 160k for a few years before the crash and that seemed fine to keep associates long enough back then.


There has been 8 years of inflation eatting away at that.

I think one big problem firms will face is that they stopped factoring in attrition during the recession and the years after. They spent many years under-hiring. That is why bonuses went up.

Also since doc review work dried up, they aren't hiring as many Juniors. In the boom times, you'd have juniors do 3 years of doc review who then left. Since there isn't doc review (at least enough to keep people busy for year), the litigation organization chart is looks like a house instead of a pyramid. In some practice it is like a silo.

So far they get away with that because lit has shit exit options. People just stay. If that changes, they'll have to pony up.


lol

User avatar
Desert Fox
Progressively loosing literacy
Posts: 14423
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:57 pm

TheUnicornHunter wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:Seems like firms budget for attrition in their current base salaries though. Firms were paying 160k for a few years before the crash and that seemed fine to keep associates long enough back then.


There has been 8 years of inflation eatting away at that.

I think one big problem firms will face is that they stopped factoring in attrition during the recession and the years after. They spent many years under-hiring. That is why bonuses went up.

Also since doc review work dried up, they aren't hiring as many Juniors. In the boom times, you'd have juniors do 3 years of doc review who then left. Since there isn't doc review (at least enough to keep people busy for year), the litigation organization chart is looks like a house instead of a pyramid. In some practice it is like a silo.

So far they get away with that because lit has shit exit options. People just stay. If that changes, they'll have to pony up.


lol


DF praying for another massive oil spill.

User avatar
JohannDeMann
Posts: 13831
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:25 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby JohannDeMann » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:06 pm

twenty 8 wrote:Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.


People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15413
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby sublime » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:07 pm

..

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:57 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:Just to summarize for everyone following along not participating:

The actual lawyers agree no big raise is coming. Maybe 170k for first years.
The law students who will put their money where their mouth is believe a pay raise is def in order but only 170k is in the cards for 5 or major NYC firms and only NYC.
The law students making bulldog talk with a puppydog ass think 175k+ is in the cards for lots of firms in NYC and other primary markets.


Precisely nobody ITT predicted the magnitude of the DPW bonuses last year, so I'm not trusting anyone who claims to be highly confident one way or the other.

Should an increase occur, I think there would be further segmentation, but well more than 5 would match. I would be very surprised if at least 90% of the firms that paid market bonuses last year didn't match a modest increase in NYC. As for outside NYC, I'd be more skeptical, since not that many firms matched DPW and IIRC it took some time for LA/DC to go to 160.

Like I said, I'd take a 50/50 bet that any firm paying $160k or more to first-years in any market raises the base salary of any class sometime in the next year.

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:13 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
twenty 8 wrote:Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.


People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.


Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.

User avatar
Desert Fox
Progressively loosing literacy
Posts: 14423
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:17 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
twenty 8 wrote:Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.


People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.


Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.


V&E pays above market?

Lawyerrr
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:58 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Lawyerrr » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:26 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
twenty 8 wrote:Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.


People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.


Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.


I think most people would pick Boies over Cleary. Also, tons of people lateral from places like S&C/Skadden to Kirkland for higher pay. Maybe 2Ls will pick S&C cuz it's ranked higher, but mid-levels care more about money.

User avatar
skers
Posts: 4950
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:33 am

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby skers » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:29 pm

A ton of people do those things. Stop talking so much about shit you don't know about dude.

Mal Reynolds
Posts: 12630
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:16 am

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:30 pm

People pick S&C because it's a backdoor to Goldman and who doesn't want that.

User avatar
Yukos
Posts: 1774
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:47 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Yukos » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:43 pm

My completely baseless prediction: Silicon Valley is going to raise salaries first.

1) Local economy is still doing really well (maybe best in the country)

2) COL is going up insanely fast; SF rent = NY rent

3) SV is the worst of all worlds for an associate--super dull and expensive, and the commute from SF is awful

4) Firms can't rely on prestige to recruit students like V5 firms can

5) In-house competition from the big tech companies and startups is very real

6) It happened before--Gunderson led the charge in 1999

7) Might give them access to people who grew up on the East Coast and had never heard of firms like WSGR/F&W or considered moving to California.

SV to 190.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:46 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Is it fraud if we come up with an elaborate hoax to trick ATL into thinking a firm went to 190!


let's do it

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:48 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:People pick S&C because it's a backdoor to Goldman and who doesn't want that.


our corp dept does tons of secondments and sends ppl to client side all the time, must be legit

if I can't get go BIGPHARMA client side lit dept im just gonna DIAF
Last edited by Big Shrimpin on Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:50 pm

Lawyerrr wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
twenty 8 wrote:Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.


People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.


Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.


I think most people would pick Boies over Cleary. Also, tons of people lateral from places like S&C/Skadden to Kirkland for higher pay. Maybe 2Ls will pick S&C cuz it's ranked higher, but mid-levels care more about money.


You're right. Sorry, meant to clarify that it's 2Ls doing those things in large numbers.

Desert Fox wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
twenty 8 wrote:Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.


People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.


Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.


V&E pays above market?


At Houston taxes/COL, a V&E Houston first-year is taking home $100k AFTER payment on 2000 sq ft. No large firm except for WLRK could claim anything close (except for W&C at their new scale, but they're below DPW for midlevels). That was the gist (although apparently some people at V&E were in fact getting above market bonuses).

User avatar
Desert Fox
Progressively loosing literacy
Posts: 14423
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:51 pm

u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:53 pm

Desert Fox wrote:u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?


if u want 2 get rich in BIGLAW go TX and STACK CASH

plus u get 2 has a 3000 sqft house/wife

User avatar
Desert Fox
Progressively loosing literacy
Posts: 14423
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:55 pm

Chicago is the perfect mix of low COL and living in a nice city.

User avatar
rpupkin
Posts: 3864
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby rpupkin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:56 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?


if u want 2 get rich in BIGLAW go TX and STACK CASH

plus u get 2 has a 3000 sqft house/wife

That's a lot of woman.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:56 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Chicago is the perfect mix of low COL and living in a nice city.


ya if u r an eskimo or love to be cold 9 months of the year

mfh winter has me wanting 2 move 2 CA, ill bring my own water

Anonymous User
Posts: 273363
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:00 pm

Desert Fox wrote:u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?


Someone posted that Baker Botts paid above market to high-billers as well

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:04 pm

Desert Fox wrote:u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?


Did anyone else pay market bonuses in Houston? If Dallas is a little cheaper than I suppose it's Weil, Akin Gump, or whoever else was paying full DPW there.

ETA: If Baker Botts did that any of those would be in roughly the same grouping.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273363
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:10 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Chicago is the perfect mix of low COL and living in a nice city.


ya if u r an eskimo or love to be cold 9 months of the year

mfh winter has me wanting 2 move 2 CA, ill bring my own water


LA Biglaw is where it's at, man. Perfect weather, lower COL, less stress, less slave-driving, and same pay (if you're at a NYC market-paying firm, which thankfully I am). LA is way better than the high strung, narcissistic, and overly-priced shithole that is MFH. Please bring extra water with you 8)

User avatar
Desert Fox
Progressively loosing literacy
Posts: 14423
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:10 pm

All the V100 sat. offices did, so I'm guessing the home grown people did too.

Rumor K&E was offering 100k signing bonus last spring to anyone going to Houston for O&G wrk.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273363
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Biglaw Salaries going up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:11 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?


Did anyone else pay market bonuses in Houston? If Dallas is a little cheaper than I suppose it's Weil, Akin Gump, or whoever else was paying full DPW there.

ETA: If Baker Botts did that any of those would be in roughly the same grouping.


In terms of Dallas-

Above Market: BB, V&E, I assume Jones Day for some

Market: Weil, Akin

Below Market: Sidley, Hayboo, Locke Lord

Unsure: GDC (I assume Market)




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.