Management Consulting

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BrooklynLaw16
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Management Consulting

Postby BrooklynLaw16 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:23 pm

I was talking to a friend about legal careers, and he mentioned that management consulting firms start JDs at $250K. He mentioned McKinsey, BCG, and Bain. Is this a viable career path for a JD?
My initial impression is that these positions are more geared towards MBAs.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Management Consulting

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:08 pm

Your friend either lied about the salary or just doesn't know what he's talking about. Base plus bonus comp first year will be roughly $150,000 for an associate at BCG or McKinsey. It increases a little faster than cravath scale biglaw but you won't hit $250,000 for a while still.

Is it possible? Coming from a T6 law school with business work experience and a knack for case interviews, sure it's possible. Not likely though. Voyager has an extended thread on the subject, do a little searching.

kartelite
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Re: Management Consulting

Postby kartelite » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:41 pm

Comp is a bit better than $150k the first year (at least one of MBB is upping base to $140k this year), plus you also get a nice signing bonus. Almost all of the positions will go to graduates of the top 10 or so MBA programs, and even among them it's fairly competitive.

Source: Sibling works for MBB in a post-MBA role.

Anonymous User
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Re: Management Consulting

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:27 am

kartelite wrote:Comp is a bit better than $150k the first year (at least one of MBB is upping base to $140k this year), plus you also get a nice signing bonus. Almost all of the positions will go to graduates of the top 10 or so MBA programs, and even among them it's fairly competitive.

Source: Sibling works for MBB in a post-MBA role.


This is the most accurate summary, mostly up to date: http://www.caseinterview.com/consulting-salary

Last year, McKinsey comp for associates (the position JD's get hired into) was $120k base, $20k signing bonus, $20k year-end bonus (rumor mill said some get more but vast majority get $20K) and then somewhere between $15-20K contributed to a retirement fund. This is roughly but not exactly matched by Bain, BCG and Booz and the others outside the top 3.

So all in, it's about...

Year 1: $180k, $165k in cash
Year 2: $160k, $145k in cash
Year 3: You're fired. (In reality a little about 50% are gently let go through in-house career placement... exits are good; 50% get promoted to Engagement Manager or whatever they're calling it and comp goes up maybe $75k).

My source: Was offered an associate position at McKinsey in late 2013, turned it down.

Caveat: Even if you go to a qualifying law school (Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Penn, Chicago... not sure about the others), your chances are very, very slim. Unless you're certain that you want to do strategy and don't want to practice law, I wouldn't start doing any case prep since it's a big time commitment, equivalent to the LSAT.

Anonymous User
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Re: Management Consulting

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kartelite wrote:Comp is a bit better than $150k the first year (at least one of MBB is upping base to $140k this year), plus you also get a nice signing bonus. Almost all of the positions will go to graduates of the top 10 or so MBA programs, and even among them it's fairly competitive.

Source: Sibling works for MBB in a post-MBA role.


This is the most accurate summary, mostly up to date: http://www.caseinterview.com/consulting-salary

Last year, McKinsey comp for associates (the position JD's get hired into) was $120k base, $20k signing bonus, $20k year-end bonus (rumor mill said some get more but vast majority get $20K) and then somewhere between $15-20K contributed to a retirement fund. This is roughly but not exactly matched by Bain, BCG and Booz and the others outside the top 3.

So all in, it's about...

Year 1: $180k, $165k in cash
Year 2: $160k, $145k in cash
Year 3: You're fired. (In reality a little about 50% are gently let go through in-house career placement... exits are good; 50% get promoted to Engagement Manager or whatever they're calling it and comp goes up maybe $75k).

My source: Was offered an associate position at McKinsey in late 2013, turned it down.

Caveat: Even if you go to a qualifying law school (Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Penn, Chicago... not sure about the others), your chances are very, very slim. Unless you're certain that you want to do strategy and don't want to practice law, I wouldn't start doing any case prep since it's a big time commitment, equivalent to the LSAT.


The information is outdated. BCG has been leading comp increases.

xiao_long
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Re: Management Consulting

Postby xiao_long » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:22 pm

BrooklynLaw16 wrote:I was talking to a friend about legal careers, and he mentioned that management consulting firms start JDs at $250K. He mentioned McKinsey, BCG, and Bain. Is this a viable career path for a JD?
My initial impression is that these positions are more geared towards MBAs.

The short answer is no. You should not think you have a probable chance of landing MBB, even if you attend an upper T14. For a would-be lawyer, Biglaw is the only realistic path to a six-figure income. Legal employment and management consulting should not be mentioned in the same sentence.

If you really wanted to do strategy consulting, you should have went to a top business school where MBB recruits in droves. Just look at the placement statistics and you will see for yourself. In fact, it was reported that over the past few years about half of the HBS graduates that were offered associate positions at McKinsey turned it down.

bdubs
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Re: Management Consulting

Postby bdubs » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:33 pm

Comp for MBB is on par with or better than big law in year 1. Consulting firms pay less in base comp, but they have a lot of perks that biglaw doesn't offer. For example BCG covers 100% of health insurance premiums for consultants (which is several thousand dollars at my firm). They also all do substantial 401k matching. You also can't discount the fact that you get a shitload of travel reward points that basically make your vacations 50-75% cheaper because you hardly pay anything for airfare or hotels.

Transparency in salaries isn't the best in consulting, but I've heard that an average 4th/5th year at MBB makes less than a 4th/5th year in biglaw (Cravath scale this year was $275,000/310,000). To make it 4 to 5 years in consulting is not typical though, most people will exit well before then (like law, almost always to a lower paying position at a client). Partners at consulting firms also make less than the partners at V20 firms (although there are more MBB partners than biglaw partners).

Comparing law and consulting is an apples to oranges comparison It really depends on what you want to do, what you are good at doing, and where you want it to take you.

Anonymous User
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Re: Management Consulting

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:04 pm

bdubs wrote:Comp for MBB is on par with or better than big law in year 1. Consulting firms pay less in base comp, but they have a lot of perks that biglaw doesn't offer. For example BCG covers 100% of health insurance premiums for consultants (which is several thousand dollars at my firm). They also all do substantial 401k matching. You also can't discount the fact that you get a shitload of travel reward points that basically make your vacations 50-75% cheaper because you hardly pay anything for airfare or hotels.

Transparency in salaries isn't the best in consulting, but I've heard that an average 4th/5th year at MBB makes less than a 4th/5th year in biglaw (Cravath scale this year was $275,000/310,000). To make it 4 to 5 years in consulting is not typical though, most people will exit well before then (like law, almost always to a lower paying position at a client). Partners at consulting firms also make less than the partners at V20 firms (although there are more MBB partners than biglaw partners).

Comparing law and consulting is an apples to oranges comparison It really depends on what you want to do, what you are good at doing, and where you want it to take you.


I worked in consulting before working in law - this is accurate except for the fact that starting salaries, and yes current at MBB, are certainly lower than 175k you get first year cash from a biglaw firm (160 +10-15 in bonus + maybe 5-10 signing bonus). Bases are still 120k for both b-students and law students. There is a larger signing bonus but that goes away in the second year and does not make up for the base scale difference. Moreover, do not count the "perks" as plusses for consulting; the consulting lifestyle is a horrible, horrible, thing and is vastly undercompensated. And yes, as poster notes, shelf life for consultants is terrible, and you will have to deal with the hassle of moving jobs and very likely cities after a very short period. If you go to law school to be a consultant, you're probably to stupid to be a successful lawyer or consultant.

kartelite
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Re: Management Consulting

Postby kartelite » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Comp for MBB is on par with or better than big law in year 1. Consulting firms pay less in base comp, but they have a lot of perks that biglaw doesn't offer. For example BCG covers 100% of health insurance premiums for consultants (which is several thousand dollars at my firm). They also all do substantial 401k matching. You also can't discount the fact that you get a shitload of travel reward points that basically make your vacations 50-75% cheaper because you hardly pay anything for airfare or hotels.

Transparency in salaries isn't the best in consulting, but I've heard that an average 4th/5th year at MBB makes less than a 4th/5th year in biglaw (Cravath scale this year was $275,000/310,000). To make it 4 to 5 years in consulting is not typical though, most people will exit well before then (like law, almost always to a lower paying position at a client). Partners at consulting firms also make less than the partners at V20 firms (although there are more MBB partners than biglaw partners).

Comparing law and consulting is an apples to oranges comparison It really depends on what you want to do, what you are good at doing, and where you want it to take you.


I worked in consulting before working in law - this is accurate except for the fact that starting salaries, and yes current at MBB, are certainly lower than 175k you get first year cash from a biglaw firm (160 +10-15 in bonus + maybe 5-10 signing bonus). Bases are still 120k for both b-students and law students. There is a larger signing bonus but that goes away in the second year and does not make up for the base scale difference. Moreover, do not count the "perks" as plusses for consulting; the consulting lifestyle is a horrible, horrible, thing and is vastly undercompensated. And yes, as poster notes, shelf life for consultants is terrible, and you will have to deal with the hassle of moving jobs and very likely cities after a very short period. If you go to law school to be a consultant, you're probably to stupid to be a successful lawyer or consultant.


Well, your numbers on consulting base comp are way off - by $15k (maybe 10, but I'm pretty sure 15) at at least one of MBB.

Anonymous User
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Re: Management Consulting

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:01 pm

MBB consultant here. Post MBA (and JD/Phd) base was 140k as of the beginning of 2014 and at least one of MBB just bumped that 5%, so that would be $147 base. Then bonus of 20k or so on top of that. Plus yes, signing bonus of 25k and yes, often health insurance or 401k contribution. So the pay is better than biglaw. But getting to MBB is very unlikely from law school, even T14, and survival even more unlikely. Your class peers are individuals who've already done the same job for several years, either with MBB or another firm. Hard to be a top performer at the outset given that experience gap. That leads to poor reviews, since you are compared to your cohort. Poor reviews leads to getting staffed on shitty projects. This leads to more poor reviews. This leads to an early exit.

mickey_mouse
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Re: Management Consulting

Postby mickey_mouse » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:11 pm

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=238993

This thread'll probably answer questions for you if you can skim through the whole thing.




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