Lateral Resume

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Anonymous User
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Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:41 pm

Junior associate looking to lateral to break into desired practice group. Had question about GPA on resume. I read an article from Lateral Link (a top legal recruiting firm that posts articles/tips on ATL), and they recommend two guidelines: (1) leave off GPA if below about 3.33, and (2) 1L grades far outweigh seminar and other elective grades, so strong 1L performance should be noted.

I did great 1L year, transferred out, and was around median at new school. Overall GPA is below 3.33, so I planned to leave off resume. But I want to note strong 1L grades, and the honors I received due to them. Here is the conundrum: I only list my new school on the resume and don't make mention of my old school. Figure that, if I want to note my high 1L grades/rank, I need to be clear that they weren't at my current school. Any idea how to walk the line here? Just note the 1L school in parenthesis after the 1L rank mention?

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:14 pm

I don't know if there is a protocol here, but shouldn't you be listing both schools anyways? Leaving the 1L school off seems slightly misleading? Even though you certainly transferred to your final school based on good grades? You could put the 1L school on there, list your GPA earned there, then list your second school and it's GPA.

Not sure if there is a "right" answer here though, just opining here.

Edit: oh and as I think of it, not sure one could ever emphasize 1L grades on a resume at all. Seems like only way that could be done would be by submitting transcripts, and you don't do that unless asked for it. Sorry not being helpful

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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:20 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:I don't know if there is a protocol here, but shouldn't you be listing both schools anyways? Leaving the 1L school off seems slightly misleading? Even though you certainly transferred to your final school based on good grades? You could put the 1L school on there, list your GPA earned there, then list your second school and it's GPA.

Not sure if there is a "right" answer here though, just opining here.


Common practice is to just list out the school from which you graduated (and the GPA you put is technically only the GPA from that school, so your 1L grades aren't factored in). You only list both schools if you are applying at OCI, and actually in between schools at the moment. So, like most transfers who have graduated, our 1L school is essentially wiped from the resume. But I obviously have to mention it if I want to say "Top 5% of 1L section", since that wasn't at my graduating school. I figure I can sort of bury it a bit by putting the old school name in parenthesis after writing out the award.

kaiser
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby kaiser » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:22 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Edit: oh and as I think of it, not sure one could ever emphasize 1L grades on a resume at all. Seems like only way that could be done would be by submitting transcripts, and you don't do that unless asked for it. Sorry not being helpful


Thats not necessarily the case. Under honors, you can just write out "X Award for Top 5% in 1L Section". Don't need to necessarily write out numerical GPA, but the point gets across that you did awesome 1L year.

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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:21 am

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Edit: oh and as I think of it, not sure one could ever emphasize 1L grades on a resume at all. Seems like only way that could be done would be by submitting transcripts, and you don't do that unless asked for it. Sorry not being helpful


I disagree with this. I think it would be okay to have a line that said something like "1L GPA: 3.65; overall GPA: 3.4" to emphasize a particularly strong 1L year. Obviously only worthwhile if your 1L GPA is significantly better than your overall GPA (and not applicable here).

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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:Edit: oh and as I think of it, not sure one could ever emphasize 1L grades on a resume at all. Seems like only way that could be done would be by submitting transcripts, and you don't do that unless asked for it. Sorry not being helpful


I disagree with this. I think it would be okay to have a line that said something like "1L GPA: 3.65; overall GPA: 3.4" to emphasize a particularly strong 1L year. Obviously only worthwhile if your 1L GPA is significantly better than your overall GPA (and not applicable here).


+1 to this

And thats precisely the case for me (i.e. 1L GPA is significantly higher than overall, so I want to highlight that while minimizing overall GPA). I have a feeling that putting my specific 1L GPA would just beg the question as to what my overall GPA was (answer: not too great). So I plan to just note my 1L section percentile, and the award I got because of it, since that gets the point across.

But of course, I have to at least make note that the 1L grades were at a diff school or else it would be pretty misleading

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tww909
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby tww909 » Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:I don't know if there is a protocol here, but shouldn't you be listing both schools anyways? Leaving the 1L school off seems slightly misleading? Even though you certainly transferred to your final school based on good grades? You could put the 1L school on there, list your GPA earned there, then list your second school and it's GPA.

Not sure if there is a "right" answer here though, just opining here.


Common practice is to just list out the school from which you graduated (and the GPA you put is technically only the GPA from that school, so your 1L grades aren't factored in). You only list both schools if you are applying at OCI, and actually in between schools at the moment. So, like most transfers who have graduated, our 1L school is essentially wiped from the resume. But I obviously have to mention it if I want to say "Top 5% of 1L section", since that wasn't at my graduating school. I figure I can sort of bury it a bit by putting the old school name in parenthesis after writing out the award.


Is this really standard practice for post-transfer applicants? I'm genuinely unsure, but it doesn't seem to be the case for clerkship apps at least, where the most common approach is:

Graduating Law School, J.D., 2013
Honors:
Activities:

1L Law School, J.D. candidate, transferred after first year, YEAR – YEAR
(GPA/class rank here)
Honors:
Activities

Without having reviewed lateral apps I always assumed that because the firm would ask for transcripts eventually it just made more sense to disclose the transfer up front so the transcripts made sense/it didn't look like you were trying to hide the taint of your non-t14 1L school.

sparty99
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby sparty99 » Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:51 am

tww909 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
NotMyRealName09 wrote:I don't know if there is a protocol here, but shouldn't you be listing both schools anyways? Leaving the 1L school off seems slightly misleading? Even though you certainly transferred to your final school based on good grades? You could put the 1L school on there, list your GPA earned there, then list your second school and it's GPA.

Not sure if there is a "right" answer here though, just opining here.


Common practice is to just list out the school from which you graduated (and the GPA you put is technically only the GPA from that school, so your 1L grades aren't factored in). You only list both schools if you are applying at OCI, and actually in between schools at the moment. So, like most transfers who have graduated, our 1L school is essentially wiped from the resume. But I obviously have to mention it if I want to say "Top 5% of 1L section", since that wasn't at my graduating school. I figure I can sort of bury it a bit by putting the old school name in parenthesis after writing out the award.


Is this really standard practice for post-transfer applicants? I'm genuinely unsure, but it doesn't seem to be the case for clerkship apps at least, where the most common approach is:

Graduating Law School, J.D., 2013
Honors:
Activities:

1L Law School, J.D. candidate, transferred after first year, YEAR – YEAR
(GPA/class rank here)
Honors:
Activities

Without having reviewed lateral apps I always assumed that because the firm would ask for transcripts eventually it just made more sense to disclose the transfer up front so the transcripts made sense/it didn't look like you were trying to hide the taint of your non-t14 1L school.


Who gives a fuck. Are you going to be the status quo your whole life? A resume is to put your best forward. You put yourself in the best light. YOu control your resume, not some "standard practice bs." If you went to a better school, then you put that school only. They gave the degree. There is really nothing else to discuss. Jesus.

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fats provolone
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby fats provolone » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:20 am

they're gonna smell the transfer on you anyway

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:01 am

Sparty, don't be an asshole. tww909 is completely correct as far as clerkship apps go so it's a reasonable point. Obviously there are standard practices for resumes and not following them can make your application look weird/off, in part because law is a conservative profession.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:53 pm

As far as clerkship apps, maybe it is common to keep your transfer school. But thats not typical outside of the clerkship context. Every transfer I know cuts out our 1L school, along with our 1L GPA (the GPA you list on your resume, if any, is the GPA you graduated with from your new school, where the 1L grades don't apply).

So normally its not an issue at all. Its only a reason because I want to mention my 1L grades, which inherently involves discussion of my 1L school.

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fats provolone
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby fats provolone » Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:58 pm

just do a parenthetical saying "first year coursework completed at X, 3.9 GPA" or w/e

Anonymous User
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:06 pm

fats provolone wrote:just do a parenthetical saying "first year coursework completed at X, 3.9 GPA" or w/e


Right, I'd just put that, and a small note of the school afterward. Hopefully they will be skimming so fast they will just see the GPA/rank number :)

Anonymous User
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:21 pm

rising midlevel here w/ lateral exp...echoing some, but not all advice in here...

put transfer school only - otherwise, ur def not gonna have enuff room to list all the stellar exp/accomplishments youve gained thus far...if u slayed 1L, put line-item under transfer school like "trasnferred out of sps univ law with 1L class rank of top-dog motherfucker"

also, dont list GPA unless ur at/near 20-ish% or so...most firms are going to check ur transcript anyway and often do have hard cutoffs for diff schools (as stupid as that is, esp if you do have legit junior exp), so dont give them an upfront reason to toss ur shit in the trash

a potential end-around re having a crap GPA/LS (if u have good exp) is to apply thru a friend/contact at the firm - this can get u past DERP hr/recruiting peeps

also, dont fuck-up ur cover letter/writing sample

Anonymous User
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:rising midlevel here w/ lateral exp...echoing some, but not all advice in here...

put transfer school only - otherwise, ur def not gonna have enuff room to list all the stellar exp/accomplishments youve gained thus far...if u slayed 1L, put line-item under transfer school like "trasnferred out of sps univ law with 1L class rank of top-dog motherfucker"

also, dont list GPA unless ur at/near 20-ish% or so...most firms are going to check ur transcript anyway and often do have hard cutoffs for diff schools (as stupid as that is, esp if you do have legit junior exp), so dont give them an upfront reason to toss ur shit in the trash

a potential end-around re having a crap GPA/LS (if u have good exp) is to apply thru a friend/contact at the firm - this can get u past DERP hr/recruiting peeps

also, dont fuck-up ur cover letter/writing sample


Thanks a lot for the advice! Yep, will def just put it as line item, and will only make parenthetical mention of old school. Won't be listing overall GPA, since they will see transcripts anyway, and I want my resume to at least get me through the door.

Will def try and make some contacts. When I was in my 1L summer, I spent some time just reaching out to alums of my school in my desired firms, chatting with them a bit about the firm, their experience, etc. And that would sometimes lead to them giving recruiting a nudge. Not sure how kosher that is at the lateral level (i.e. how willing they would be to just chat with another attorney who is reaching out unsolicited to get some insight on the firm and their experience)

Anonymous User
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:rising midlevel here w/ lateral exp...echoing some, but not all advice in here...

put transfer school only - otherwise, ur def not gonna have enuff room to list all the stellar exp/accomplishments youve gained thus far...if u slayed 1L, put line-item under transfer school like "trasnferred out of sps univ law with 1L class rank of top-dog motherfucker"

also, dont list GPA unless ur at/near 20-ish% or so...most firms are going to check ur transcript anyway and often do have hard cutoffs for diff schools (as stupid as that is, esp if you do have legit junior exp), so dont give them an upfront reason to toss ur shit in the trash

a potential end-around re having a crap GPA/LS (if u have good exp) is to apply thru a friend/contact at the firm - this can get u past DERP hr/recruiting peeps

also, dont fuck-up ur cover letter/writing sample


Thanks a lot for the advice! Yep, will def just put it as line item, and will only make parenthetical mention of old school. Won't be listing overall GPA, since they will see transcripts anyway, and I want my resume to at least get me through the door.

Will def try and make some contacts. When I was in my 1L summer, I spent some time just reaching out to alums of my school in my desired firms, chatting with them a bit about the firm, their experience, etc. And that would sometimes lead to them giving recruiting a nudge. Not sure how kosher that is at the lateral level (i.e. how willing they would be to just chat with another attorney who is reaching out unsolicited to get some insight on the firm and their experience)


lotta firms give their associates internal referral bonus $$

lotta firms also moving away from using recruiters because recruiters are mostly a tax collectors that spray resumes and savvy applicants should be able to research the lateral market in their practice area and contact alums/recruiting depts with targeted interest

ive had pos/neg exp w recruiters, but i prefer not to use them at all because i often know moar about my lateral market than they do

Anonymous User
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:08 pm

^^

Def didn't realize firms do internal referral bonuses. And honestly, when I did those unsolicited emails and chats before OCI, people were super receptive, and happy to chat and share their experience. Can't imagine they would totally flip now that I'm no longer a student. This backdoor got me a number of additional interviews (though I didn't have to bury a subpar overall GPA at the time)

I think I agree about recruiters. My situation, and the change I'm looking to make, is pretty unique, so I doubt a recruiter would know any better how to handle it.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:^^

Def didn't realize firms do internal referral bonuses. And honestly, when I did those unsolicited emails and chats before OCI, people were super receptive, and happy to chat and share their experience. Can't imagine they would totally flip now that I'm no longer a student. This backdoor got me a number of additional interviews (though I didn't have to bury a subpar overall GPA at the time)

I think I agree about recruiters. My situation, and the change I'm looking to make, is pretty unique, so I doubt a recruiter would know any better how to handle it.


yeah - i know of at handful of V100 firms with recruiting depts that literally send emails to associates being like "yo, if u know someone for this role, holler at us and we'll toss u cash $$"

most recruiters are just dfferent shades of awful

Anonymous User
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Re: Lateral Resume

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^^

Def didn't realize firms do internal referral bonuses. And honestly, when I did those unsolicited emails and chats before OCI, people were super receptive, and happy to chat and share their experience. Can't imagine they would totally flip now that I'm no longer a student. This backdoor got me a number of additional interviews (though I didn't have to bury a subpar overall GPA at the time)

I think I agree about recruiters. My situation, and the change I'm looking to make, is pretty unique, so I doubt a recruiter would know any better how to handle it.


yeah - i know of at handful of V100 firms with recruiting depts that literally send emails to associates being like "yo, if u know someone for this role, holler at us and we'll toss u cash $$"

most recruiters are just dfferent shades of awful


Good to know. Will def start pounding the pavement on this. I'm looking to switch into my desired practice group (a more specific area of litigation, whereas I currently do general lit). Still junior so the substantive gap isn't too large yet, plus I was able to do many projects in that area as a summer, and in my first few months at my firm, wrote a chapter for a book in that area (my writing sample), took clinic/seminars in that area, have shown a clear passion for it, etc. Sort of an atypical situation, so having that backdoor may be crucial.




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