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TLS gave me tons of help and insight over the years. Haven't been on the site in awhile, but figured I'd stop by and answer some Q's, if people have them. Maybe some will find it of value. I'm a junior litigation associate in NYC biglaw. Going to take steps to keep my anonymity so don't ask anything too particularized (I'm going to tell little white lies where it is of no consequence, and where it helps maintain my anonymity), but I'm happy to share whatever insight I can. So ask away.

1) How is your QoL (both in terms of hours worked and hours worked on mind-numbing matters) compared to corporate associates at your firm?

2) Where have other associates ended up after leaving the firm's lit group?

welcometoscotland wrote:1) How is your QoL (both in terms of hours worked and hours worked on mind-numbing matters) compared to corporate associates at your firm?

2) Where have other associates ended up after leaving the firm's lit group?

1. The matters I work on are actually pretty interesting, and cover a pretty wide spectrum of subject matter. Gotten the chance to work on an antitrust matter, employment law matter, healthcare, etc. Its one of my favorite parts of general lit (i.e. that you are constantly learning new things and have lots of opportunity to try out different sub-areas). Hard to say how it compares to the corporate associates. Their work is definitely off my radar, so I can't say for sure whether they find it mind numbing vs. interesting.

As for QOL, I'm not going to lie and paint you a rosy picture. NYC big law, for lack of a better word, sucks for QOL. Lots of late nights, and a decent amount of weekend work. Makes it tough to have plans after work, and sometimes even weekend plans can get screwed over a bit (though my vacation plans have been respected, with few if any emails, so long as I provide enough advance notice). But thats the nature of the beast, and I knew that coming in. VERY few people would ever say they "like" or "enjoy" the big firm environment. Most people just sort of bear it for however long it takes to build up experience, bolster the resume, pay off loans, etc.

2. The turnover is very high, so I've seen a bunch of litigation folks leave, even after just a relatively short time with my firm. And their exit opportunities seem to be pretty excellent once they build up a few years of experience. Some leave for in house positions, often with clients of the firm, some leave for boutique or smaller firms, some have taken a break from firm practice to do clerkships, etc.

What's your firm's Vault range for context? There are markedly different experiences for someone at a V5 compared to V100.

KM2016 wrote:What's your firm's Vault range for context? There are markedly different experiences for someone at a V5 compared to V100.

Its really not going to be as different an experience as you would think. Though for context, I'll say its a V15 firm.

Any classes in general you think people should take before going into big law (corp or lit if you can specify)?

General advice for 2l's preparing to summer in nyc big law?

How have you found your loan repayment to go? Does the 160+ stretch to have a good QOL in NY and pay back loans aggressively?

How did you go about finding an apartment? Do you believe you should live closer to office or further?

Can you compare your experience to your peers at other firms?

Thanks for taking qs.

1) How long do you think most associates stay/planning to stay?

2) On average what would you say the low (aka a good week) numbers of hours worked is, and what a high (aka "bad" is? Not crazy outliers, but what is like the low and high side within a standard deviation.

3) You said sometimes weekend plans take a hit, does that imply that more times than not you can have a semblance of a life on the weekend?

4) Do people share offices typically? If so till when

5) Bonuses are nice huh?

Anonymous User wrote:Any classes in general you think people should take before going into big law (corp or lit if you can specify)?

General advice for 2l's preparing to summer in nyc big law?

How have you found your loan repayment to go? Does the 160+ stretch to have a good QOL in NY and pay back loans aggressively?

How did you go about finding an apartment? Do you believe you should live closer to office or further?

Can you compare your experience to your peers at other firms?

Thanks for taking qs.

1. General advice would be to just have the right attitude, try and find the value in the little things, and try and find ways to contribute that go beyond the explicit instructions given to you. At first, you will absolutely make mistakes (and likely well beyond that point). But no one is really going to hold that against you so long as you have the right mindset and attitude (meaning that you are positive, engaged in the work, anxious to learn, etc.) Finding value in the little things means understanding that even small tasks provide a way to contribute value and make an impression. Take ownership of even the smallest tasks, and try and understand how they fit into the bigger picture. And don't think of yourself as an order-taker. Use your head, and try to find ways to contribute and add value. Make suggestions, go above and beyond, etc. Even if it doesn't end up being necessary, this attentiveness and thoroughness will create a very good impression.

2. I live pretty comfortably since (a) my loans are much less than most peoples', and (b) I take steps to minimize my expenses. I started out with about 80K in law school debt. Still high, but not terribly so compared to what some of my classmates are currently paying. Plan is to have it all paid back in about a 3-4 year period (the average tenure for a biglaw job). As for expenses, I am still fairly frugal, which allows me to save, even while making loan payments. I chose an apartment in an area with lower rent, though its still an excellent place to live. Don't get me wrong. Anywhere in or around NYC has insane rent prices, but you can take steps to minimize the damage if you are willing to make certain sacrifices. So given that combo, I am able to save, go on nice trips, hit up some really nice restaurants, etc. without a problem.

3. I think there is value in living close to the firm, though I wouldn't want to live too close. The late night and weekend work makes it so you want to be fairly close (though most weekend work can be done from home). So I just sort of searched for apts that would allow me easy access to my firm. Some people live within a few blocks of the firm, which is something I couldn't do because I would never leave the "bubble" around the office. I sort of like getting away at the end of the day, though the commute is still fast. Late nights, most firms will just let you take a taxi home, so its a breeze to get back.

4. Hard to really compare. We all work a lot, and most of us seem to generally like it to some extent (i.e. we appreciate the experience we are getting, the responsibility, the mentors we have found, etc.). Though we all roundly complain about the awful hours, and endless pressure. But again, thats just the nature of the beast. Most firms are largely interchangeable. Its who you happen to work with that makes all the difference.

could you PM me where you live and where you work?

Anonymous User wrote:1) How long do you think most associates stay/planning to stay?

2) On average what would you say the low (aka a good week) numbers of hours worked is, and what a high (aka "bad" is? Not crazy outliers, but what is like the low and high side within a standard deviation.

3) You said sometimes weekend plans take a hit, does that imply that more times than not you can have a semblance of a life on the weekend?

4) Do people share offices typically? If so till when

5) Bonuses are nice huh?

1. Not too long. Turnover is very high, and very few people genuinely "enjoy" being in this kind of environment. Its the proverbial meat grinder, so its not expected that people will stay too long (aside from a select few). Its sort of an underlying constant that people are just there to pay off their loans, get some good experience, and move on. And I'd imagine thats the case in almost any big firm. I'd say most folks, after about 3 years or so, step back for a bit and consider future steps.

2. Id say a "good" week is one that only has one really late night, where I get to leave most nights at a reasonable hour, relax a bit, go to the gym, etc. As for how long I'm in the office on those weeks, I'm usually in around 9, and out around 7:30 or 8. The late night is usually home around 11 or 12. A "good" week is one that involves minimal weekend work. A bad week (but not exceptionally bad) will have me there late 3 or 4 nights, with one of the weekend days largely blocked out for work. Hard to say what the total hours are, but those are the weeks when plans are cast aside, I don't get to eat dinner with my fiance, little if any time to get to the gym, etc.

3. I'd say I am usually ok on the weekends, and work doesn't usually force me to cancel weekend plans. I have certain recurring tasks and responsibilities that simply need to get done on the weekend since I won't have time for them during the week. So I always bill at least some weekend time. But I can generally plan around it. That isn't to say I haven't cancelled a whole bunch of weekend plans because of work. But for the most part, I am able to have a semblance of a personal and social life on the weekends.

4. My firm doesn't have shared offices, and I had my own office both as a summer and as a junior associate.

5. Bonuses certainly don't hurt. Thats for sure.

Anonymous User wrote: 4. My firm doesn't have shared offices, and I had my own office both as a summer and as a junior associate.

wait what the fuck?

Could you PM me the firm name?

What does a day look like? Like do you walk in and have new assignments on your desk, or are they emailed to you? Do you leave for lunch? etc. Even stuff that might seem obvious I would be interested to know to get a feel for it.

Anonymous User wrote:What does a day look like? Like do you walk in and have new assignments on your desk, or are they emailed to you? Do you leave for lunch? etc. Even stuff that might seem obvious I would be interested to know to get a feel for it.

Day usually starts with answering emails that came in overnight, or in the very early morning. I also tie up loose ends on small things from the day before that may need a bit more time. I then move onto the agenda I have set out for the day. Of course, the set agenda of tasks I write down never goes entirely according to plan. Things always come up that throw off the schedule (i.e. something I think is done needs some follow up, or something unexpected came up that forces me to shuffle things). But in the background is always that running list of tasks, ordered by priority and urgency. So while I will be working throughout the day on those tasks, phone calls and emails are always coming in and pulling me away. Thats why I love the time after about 6 PM, when the phone calls usually stop, and the emails die down a bit. I'd say the 6-9 range is my best time for getting work done with total focus and efficiency, since its the only time when pretty much nothing distracts me or gets in the way.

I rarely just have new assignments dropped on me. I am staffed on three main cases, and my tasks are generally known in advance, so that I can plan stuff out. If someone has a new task within the context of one of those cases (or if its a short-term thing outside of those three main cases), it would almost never just be dropped off at my desk. I will always either get a call or email with the heads up, or to discuss the assignment. The tasks are often discretionary (i.e. they are gauging my ability and asking me if I have time to take care of the task). Though sometimes I'm just being told that the task is mine, but that is less common.

I personally bring my lunch most days (I prefer to just cook food in bulk on Sundays, pack a bunch of meals, and not have to think about it). But even when i do, I like to go down to the cafeteria and get out of my office for a bit. I can certainly leave the office for lunch, and many people do on a daily basis. No one is clocking in/out, so as long as you have time to finish your work, there is no harm in leaving for lunch. Though on many days, I'm so busy that I just end up eating at my desk. Not required to do so, but its just better sometimes depending on what needs to get done.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:What does a day look like? Like do you walk in and have new assignments on your desk, or are they emailed to you? Do you leave for lunch? etc. Even stuff that might seem obvious I would be interested to know to get a feel for it.

Day usually starts with answering emails that came in overnight, or in the very early morning. I also tie up loose ends on small things from the day before that may need a bit more time. I then move onto the agenda I have set out for the day. Of course, the set agenda of tasks I write down never goes entirely according to plan. Things always come up that throw off the schedule (i.e. something I think is done needs some follow up, or something unexpected came up that forces me to shuffle things). But in the background is always that running list of tasks, ordered by priority and urgency.

I rarely just have new assignments dropped on me. I am staffed on three main cases, and my tasks are generally known in advance, so that I can plan stuff out. If someone has a new task within the context of one of those cases (or if its a short-term thing outside of those three main cases), it would almost never just be dropped off at my desk. I will always either get a call or email with the heads up, or to discuss the assignment. The tasks are often discretionary (i.e. they are gauging my ability and asking me if I have time to take care of the task). Though sometimes I'm just being told that the task is mine, but that is less common.

I personally bring my lunch most days (I prefer to just cook food in bulk on Sundays, pack a bunch of meals, and not have to think about it). But even when i do, I like to go down to the cafeteria and get out of my office for a bit. I can certainly leave the office for lunch, and many people do on a daily basis. No one is clocking in/out, so as long as you have time to finish your work, there is no harm in leaving for lunch. Though on many days, I'm so busy that I just end up eating at my desk. Not required to do so, but its just better sometimes depending on what needs to get done.

What are the typical tasks and assignments that you perform for your three cases. Is it mostly doc review or are you actually writing motions and such?

Lacepiece23 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:What does a day look like? Like do you walk in and have new assignments on your desk, or are they emailed to you? Do you leave for lunch? etc. Even stuff that might seem obvious I would be interested to know to get a feel for it.

Day usually starts with answering emails that came in overnight, or in the very early morning. I also tie up loose ends on small things from the day before that may need a bit more time. I then move onto the agenda I have set out for the day. Of course, the set agenda of tasks I write down never goes entirely according to plan. Things always come up that throw off the schedule (i.e. something I think is done needs some follow up, or something unexpected came up that forces me to shuffle things). But in the background is always that running list of tasks, ordered by priority and urgency.

I rarely just have new assignments dropped on me. I am staffed on three main cases, and my tasks are generally known in advance, so that I can plan stuff out. If someone has a new task within the context of one of those cases (or if its a short-term thing outside of those three main cases), it would almost never just be dropped off at my desk. I will always either get a call or email with the heads up, or to discuss the assignment. The tasks are often discretionary (i.e. they are gauging my ability and asking me if I have time to take care of the task). Though sometimes I'm just being told that the task is mine, but that is less common.

I personally bring my lunch most days (I prefer to just cook food in bulk on Sundays, pack a bunch of meals, and not have to think about it). But even when i do, I like to go down to the cafeteria and get out of my office for a bit. I can certainly leave the office for lunch, and many people do on a daily basis. No one is clocking in/out, so as long as you have time to finish your work, there is no harm in leaving for lunch. Though on many days, I'm so busy that I just end up eating at my desk. Not required to do so, but its just better sometimes depending on what needs to get done.

What are the typical tasks and assignments that you perform for your three cases. Is it mostly doc review or are you actually writing motions and such?

My level of involvement varies for each case. On one, I'm part of the core team, working very closely with the partner and doing many substantive tasks, since its pretty much only myself and one other associate on the case. On another, I'm on the core team, but its a bit more stratified since there are more associates above me. On the third, the case team is very large, and covers across many offices. On that case, I'm more on the periphery.

I've certainly done my share of doc review, but its been balanced off with quite a bit of substantive work. On my main case, where I'm on the core team, I've helped draft interrogatories and interrogatory responses, drafted letters to opposing counsel, briefs in support of discovery motions, etc. I'm also managing the team of contract reviewers that are largely handling our document review. As a junior, much of the work is in the nitty gritty of discovery, since its where you can most effectively contribute value at the beginning. But everything sort of builds from there.

A doc review assignment can be the springboard to more substantive work. By reviewing the documents, you become intimately familiar with the subject matter of the case. In one of my cases, I simply offered to help with a doc review assignment, and just kept getting tasks from that case team once the doc review ended. And a lot of that work is more substantive that doc review. I'd say keep an open mind and good attitude about it. Doc review is something everyone will do in a big firm, so its best to try and find the value in it, and use it as a tool to parlay into more substantive work.

How many hours(ish) are you billing each year?

What post big law options are you looking at?

Do you have time for a significant other? Or if you don't have one, do you find any time to date? (Casual or otherwise)

Looking back, what do you wish you knew about big law when you joined that you now know?

How attractive are the female coworkers, on average? The top 10%?

Do all the other associates white knight the top 10% like crazy?

Do you go out and party if you know you have to be in the office at 9:30 (or whatever is normal) the next day? Does anyone? How often?

Do you party with anyone from the office?

Do you have a lot of friends in NYC you didn't know beforehand? Who are they/where did you meet them?

Here's my biggest concern about going into big-law, and I am hoping you might be able to answer my question:

I like to talk to people, whether it be on the phone or in e-mail. I especially like to make presentations. Do you ever get to talk to clients, other associates, partners, etc. where you have to present an idea orally and it actually matters? I couldn't do biglaw if I just sat and never spoke to a client or someone who will take what I have to say into consideration.

mvp99 wrote:could you PM me where you live and where you work?

I want to know where you live as well...You can PM.

GOATlawman wrote:How attractive are the female coworkers, on average? The top 10%?

Do all the other associates white knight the top 10% like crazy?

Do you go out and party if you know you have to be in the office at 9:30 (or whatever is normal) the next day? Does anyone? How often?

Do you party with anyone from the office?

Do you have a lot of friends in NYC you didn't know beforehand? Who are they/where did you meet them?

Models & bottles.

KD35 wrote:How many hours(ish) are you billing each year?

What post big law options are you looking at?

Do you have time for a significant other? Or if you don't have one, do you find any time to date? (Casual or otherwise)

Looking back, what do you wish you knew about big law when you joined that you now know?

1. This year I'm likely to hit around 2,300. Last year was about 2,200.

2. My next options would likely be a smaller firm, or a biglaw office in a secondary market. Many big firms have smaller offices in my home state, so I may look into that, since the environment would likely be a little more laid back and less pressure-filled compared to NYC. Also considering in-house positions, but I think I may need a bit more experience to really be competitive for those.

3. I am engaged to someone whom I had been dating since back when we first started college. Its because we have been together so long adn because we have that level of commitement to one another that we are able to make it through. I'm not sure how I would be able to begin a relationship from scratch during the first few years of biglaw. Most people I know have a very hard time dating, since other people just don't want to deal with the hassle of never seeing you, and they won't be understanding when things come up and cancel plans. Most people who don't have a significant other before they come to the firm usually just end up dating other lawyers, since they are the only ones who would be willing to put up with the hassle from the very onset, since they can relate.

4. I don't think anything really took me by surprise. I knew what I was getting into. I'd say I wish I was better organized from the onset. It took me awhile to really get everything in order and to form meticulous habits for keeping things sorted and neat. The best lawyers tend to be the ones who are OCD about keeping things neat, filed, organized, etc. They take extra pains to ensure that all files, both paper and electronic are kept and organized in a logical way

Anonymous User wrote:Here's my biggest concern about going into big-law, and I am hoping you might be able to answer my question:

I like to talk to people, whether it be on the phone or in e-mail. I especially like to make presentations. Do you ever get to talk to clients, other associates, partners, etc. where you have to present an idea orally and it actually matters? I couldn't do biglaw if I just sat and never spoke to a client or someone who will take what I have to say into consideration.

You absolutely get opportunity to chat and engage the cases and issues. I have weekly meetings with partners on my cases, and they love when we share our thoughts and input. Even if we are a bit off-base, it shows that we are thinking a lot about it, and it will often spur the partner to think about things in a different way. As for client contact, that will mostly come through pro bono experience, at least during the first few years. Few junior associates will have much contact with paying clients, though I've certain had a few chances.

You aren't paid to just sit in your office and take orders. You want to engage things, add value, share your perspectives, etc. People will appreciate that, and will generally value your input.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Here's my biggest concern about going into big-law, and I am hoping you might be able to answer my question:

I like to talk to people, whether it be on the phone or in e-mail. I especially like to make presentations. Do you ever get to talk to clients, other associates, partners, etc. where you have to present an idea orally and it actually matters? I couldn't do biglaw if I just sat and never spoke to a client or someone who will take what I have to say into consideration.

You absolutely get opportunity to chat and engage the cases and issues. I have weekly meetings with partners on my cases, and they love when we share our thoughts and input. Even if we are a bit off-base, it shows that we are thinking a lot about it, and it will often spur the partner to think about things in a different way. As for client contact, that will mostly come through pro bono experience, at least during the first few years. Few junior associates will have much contact with paying clients, though I've certain had a few chances.

You aren't paid to just sit in your office and take orders. You want to engage things, add value, share your perspectives, etc. People will appreciate that, and will generally value your input.

Thank you so much for your answer! I feel much better about the prospect of going into big law now. It sounds like you have a very supportive office environment as well, which is always a big plus.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Here's my biggest concern about going into big-law, and I am hoping you might be able to answer my question:

I like to talk to people, whether it be on the phone or in e-mail. I especially like to make presentations. Do you ever get to talk to clients, other associates, partners, etc. where you have to present an idea orally and it actually matters? I couldn't do biglaw if I just sat and never spoke to a client or someone who will take what I have to say into consideration.

You absolutely get opportunity to chat and engage the cases and issues. I have weekly meetings with partners on my cases, and they love when we share our thoughts and input. Even if we are a bit off-base, it shows that we are thinking a lot about it, and it will often spur the partner to think about things in a different way. As for client contact, that will mostly come through pro bono experience, at least during the first few years. Few junior associates will have much contact with paying clients, though I've certain had a few chances.

You aren't paid to just sit in your office and take orders. You want to engage things, add value, share your perspectives, etc. People will appreciate that, and will generally value your input.

Thank you so much for your answer! I feel much better about the prospect of going into big law now. It sounds like you have a very supportive office environment as well, which is always a big plus.

yea i would be careful taking OPs response as representative of biglaw. you will spend a lot of time alone in your office.

fats provolone wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Here's my biggest concern about going into big-law, and I am hoping you might be able to answer my question:

I like to talk to people, whether it be on the phone or in e-mail. I especially like to make presentations. Do you ever get to talk to clients, other associates, partners, etc. where you have to present an idea orally and it actually matters? I couldn't do biglaw if I just sat and never spoke to a client or someone who will take what I have to say into consideration.

You absolutely get opportunity to chat and engage the cases and issues. I have weekly meetings with partners on my cases, and they love when we share our thoughts and input. Even if we are a bit off-base, it shows that we are thinking a lot about it, and it will often spur the partner to think about things in a different way. As for client contact, that will mostly come through pro bono experience, at least during the first few years. Few junior associates will have much contact with paying clients, though I've certain had a few chances.

You aren't paid to just sit in your office and take orders. You want to engage things, add value, share your perspectives, etc. People will appreciate that, and will generally value your input.

Thank you so much for your answer! I feel much better about the prospect of going into big law now. It sounds like you have a very supportive office environment as well, which is always a big plus.

yea i would be careful taking OPs response as representative of biglaw. you will spend a lot of time alone in your office.

No doubt he/she will spend quite a bit of time alone in the office. I didn't mean to say that its all engaging, collaborative, and lively. Much of it is very mundane, quiet work, where you sit at your desk, bang it out, and then move onto something else. I just meant that the opportunities to collaborate, engage, discuss, etc. certainly do come up and that you can and shuold make the most of them.

Yes, I am lucky to be in a pretty supportive and positive environment. People don't cut each other down or shame them at my firm, and no one would fault you for engaging the subject matter and trying to be proactive. Again, its all about who you end up working with. That, more than anything else, will determine how much you enjoy going into work each day (or whether you dread it).