2014 Biglaw Bonus Thread Forum

[Johann]

Jesus Christ. Whining about 250 after tax bucks.

[Anonymous User]

Jesus Christ. Whining about 250 after tax bucks.

Actually, the marginal tax rate for people earning at or about $33,000 in their sub-year is 15%, so it's $425 after fed taxes. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphilli ... -and-more/

For some people, $425 is real money. I'm sorry that I'm not rich.

[fats provolone]

i got way more than i expected so either my firm was generous with proration or i screwed up my calculation. probably the latter

[m079]

Jesus Christ. Whining about 250 after tax bucks.

Actually, the marginal tax rate for people earning at or about $33,000 in their sub-year is 15%, so it's $425 after fed taxes. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphilli ... -and-more/

For some people, $425 is real money. I'm sorry that I'm not rich.

Seriously. Rude. It's a legitimate question, and even $250 is real money.

[gk101]

Jesus Christ. Whining about 250 after tax bucks.

Actually, the marginal tax rate for people earning at or about $33,000 in their sub-year is 15%, so it's $425 after fed taxes. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphilli ... -and-more/

For some people, $425 is real money. I'm sorry that I'm not rich.

Seriously. Rude. It's a legitimate question, and even $250 is real money.

eh its kind of a pointless question. Its not like he can get go back and choose a different firm that prorates. And since he won't name the firm, its not much help to others deciding on firms (and if someone decides between firms based on $400, they are idiots)

so yeah this is just pointless whining

[Anonymous User]

how did other people's NY market-matching firms do proration for class of 2014?

my NY V20ish didn't do a real proration, despite matching the market for all other classes, but just gave a flat $2,500 to class of 2014. Actual proration would have resulted in us getting about $500 or so more depending on start date.

I'm at a non-NY firm that claimed to match by giving me $2500. I didn't complain but I couldnt really figure out how they got to that number either (start date was in Oct)

[Anonymous User]

GDC just matched DPW for non-NY associates.

[Desert Fox]

250 or 450 is not real money for someone making 160k a year. Sorry bros. You can't pull the poverty card ITT.

[Old Gregg]

GDC just matched DPW for non-NY associates.

Not news.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

250 or 450 is not real money for someone making 160k a year. Sorry bros. You can't pull the poverty card ITT.

Net worth is a much more important consideration than income. To someone with $200k of debt, saving five bucks at the cleaners matters.

[Desert Fox]

250 or 450 is not real money for someone making 160k a year. Sorry bros. You can't pull the poverty card ITT.

Net worth is a much more important consideration than income. To someone with $200k of debt, saving five bucks at the cleaners matters.

Gotta consider cash flow too bro.

[fats provolone]

also net worth doesn't matter at all. every homeless dude has a higher net worth than me, and probably will forever

[Big Shrimpin]

also net worth doesn't matter at all. every homeless dude has a higher net worth than me, and probably will forever

in this demo as well

feels bad, man

[fats provolone]

I'd feel worse if I were sleeping on the street though. yea the govt gets 10-15% of my income for the rest of my life but that's like having a kid at 25 and getting divorced. which a lotta people do and it's alright.

[skers]

250 or 450 is not real money for someone making 160k a year. Sorry bros. You can't pull the poverty card ITT.

Net worth is a much more important consideration than income. To someone with $200k of debt, saving five bucks at the cleaners matters.

Are you ever not fucking obnoxious?

[dixiecupdrinking]

Someone in big law with $200k in debt who gets an extra $400 will be out of debt approximately one day sooner.

[15 styx]

Given that I started the week after I was barred, I thought our firm’s bonus was generous, considering I was expecting $0. Their formula for newly minted first years is pretty simple, one week’s pay.

[Old Gregg]

$400 is a lot of money. That's way more than half my month's meal budget.

[Desert Fox]

$400 is a lot of money. That's way more than half my month's meal budget.

but way less than half of your new bag.

[sublime]

..

[B.B. Homemaker]

I can't picture ever getting to the point where I feel like it isn't a lot of money. I might matter less, but it'll still be a non-negligible amount of money.

This is just in a general sense, not specifically in the context of deciding how to feel about a bonus.

[Big Shrimpin]

mfh has fucking ruined my perspective on wealth

if ur not in banking or something financy or a trustfundee ur a middle-class peasant

[westphillybandr]

Yeah. There's no way tuition factors in. And anyone who thinks that working inside a company with partners doesn't expose you to a general feel about what firms care about is being dense.

With that said, I'm going to spout more bullshit.

more than the actual numbers, the notion that salaries are not stagnant and that there's room for growth in compensation could impact people's decision in going to law school. If you're a financial analyst, a mid-tier strategy consultant, at a marketing company or coming off a decent MA degree, in 2010-2012 you probably considered law school and decided to put it off or look the other way if you were paying attention and did your homework. Three years later, if we see bonuses and then base salaries going up, I actually do think that momentum could impact ex ante decision making in the aggregate for some people in the work force and even college seniors debating career choices.

I hate to think of choosing a graduate program or career based so derivatively on income, but it's undeniably a factor; more pertinently, it's also what salary increases represent: opportunity, demand, ect. So I do think there's at least an indirect incentive for firms to adjust compensation to draw people into law school.

This. Also, it is a signal to the clients. The elite law schools are full of people who came from consulting, finance, etc before law school. The young analysts at those industries do look at law school as an alternative. But they also talk to each other while pondering of their future. If law as a career looks bleak, they'll tell each other not to go. And then they may tell their mentors and senior people what they found out, etc. Facts like "salaries have no gone up for a decade" looks bad and makes law firms look desperate. And if firms are desperate for business, then clients may start to think they can start negotiating down the hourly billing rate. They can refuse to pay for juniors. They can do all the sort of shit that you could do to a desperate firm.

Maybe I'm talking about of my ass. But surely the doom and gloom of the legal industry puts downward pressure on prices. One way for the elite firms to differentiate themselves may be to start paying more and create a two-tier big law industry - the newer normal - as a way to brand themselves as above the gloom. I'm just a student so what do I know though.

So firms will pay their junior associates more to be more attractive to clients? The same clients you say are unwilling to pay for junior associates? This is one of the poorest arguments I have read on this site. And that is a low bar.

LOL. You have some of the poorest reasoning and reading skills on this site. The only argument was that the poor reputation and desperation of the legal industry may put downward pressure on prices. It was more of a market trend analysis regarding bargaining power at the hour-rate negotiating table (which of course I know nothing about).

You pretend as if this whole supply and demand curve is only relevant for law graduates looking for jobs. People rightfully argue that when loads of law students are desperate to get the few good jobs, firms can do whatever the fuck they want. Well if the news and all the public facts show that plenty of law firms are not doing well (using lack of salary raises and bonuses as a proxy for their hidden financials), then perhaps clients will feel they can get away with more. Would law firms put up with clients saying they won't pay for juniors if the law firms were so busy that they could say "fuck you" and go work on another multi-billion dollar deal in a heartbeat? Probably not. But clients know they can get away with more bc they know the legal market is not as robust as before. Supply and demand. The smaller classes, smaller bonuses, pay raise freezes, etc are all economic signs of this (even if PPP remains strong). Some firms are obviously exceptions. That's the base of my "argument" and because it is so speculative I'm not sold on it.

The part about raising salaries to combat this perception would be even shakier and that was not my argument at all. Hell, I didn't even claim that this was something compensation committees considered. Instead it was just some fun ways to muse about strategy going forward for firms. From where I'm at, it seems a lot of the premiums that Big Law firms charge has more to do with IMAGE/brand than actual substance (for example, the average hourly a 2nd year DPW associate charges is higher than many firms lower down the chain). Thus I was thinking of ways to possibly change the narrative of law firms that clients hear for the most elite firms. It is very possible they don't need it though.

Congrats on being terrible at seeing the issues. I would refuse to pay you too.

you seem very dumb

[nothingtosee]

So what did Texas firms do for bonuses? Wondering about both teas players like bb and v&e and Weil, Kirkland etc

[BigZuck]

So what did Texas firms do for bonuses? Wondering about both teas players like bb and v&e and Weil, Kirkland etc

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/01/associat ... -in-texas/