Breaking into Madison Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all: I'm a 1L at a T17, and I'm curious about eventually breaking into Madison's legal market.

I graduated from UW for undergrad and left Wisconsin a few years ago, and I've kind made it a plan to get back to Madison when possible (I could not attend UW Law for personal reasons).

I'll be graduating with very little debt and I have pretty flexible career aspirations at this point; in particular, I know I could be pretty happy as a small firm litigator or with working in a state/local government lit or regulatory role.

With that in mind, would anyone have any long term tips for positioning myself to get a job there in the next half decade or so?

A few particulars: Would working there 1L summer raise eyebrows in OCI for firms in other cities, compared to the benefit of networking there? (I do have family in Wisco, if that's a valid excuse). Is lateraling from biglaw going to be more fruitful than trying to get a job outright? If so, would transferring to a Midwest T14 better position me? If I remain at my current school and get a biglaw offer post 2L, would spending my 3L as a visiting student at UW to intern/network be advisable?

Appreciate any tips

[Anonymous User]

Getting a clerkship, either W.D. of Wisconsin or the state Supreme Court could be helpful, assuming you don't have the numbers and/or desire to do a CoA clerkship. If you were able to land a gig somewhere else via OCI and then postponed for a year to do the clerkship, I think that could be a great opportunity to network and start building the relationships that would help when it came time to lateral a few years down the road. Otherwise, if OCI doesn't go well for you and you were to (God forbid) strike out, the WI DOJ does externships over the summer that could be another great avenue. It's primarily geared towards UW and Marquette students, but they do accept applications from anywhere. Word on the street is that since UW's class size has been shrinking, these DOJ externships are a lot less competitive and easier to come by, too.

EDIT: Regarding working here during your 1L summer-- Not a bad idea, but the market is very small and you're going to be competing with more or less the entire UW 1L class. Getting a job here might not be possible. If you were to work there during the summer, though, come OCI time you will have to have a very convincing (true or not) reason why you are interviewing for places that AREN'T Madison, since firms might see it as UG + 1L summer = flight risk

[Anonymous User]

Thanks a lot for the tips, I appreciate it.

[Anonymous User]

[Anonymous User]

Hi all: I'm a 1L at a T17, and I'm curious about eventually breaking into Madison's legal market.

I graduated from UW for undergrad and left Wisconsin a few years ago, and I've kind made it a plan to get back to Madison when possible (I could not attend UW Law for personal reasons).

I'll be graduating with very little debt and I have pretty flexible career aspirations at this point; in particular, I know I could be pretty happy as a small firm litigator or with working in a state/local government lit or regulatory role.

With that in mind, would anyone have any long term tips for positioning myself to get a job there in the next half decade or so?

A few particulars: Would working there 1L summer raise eyebrows in OCI for firms in other cities, compared to the benefit of networking there? (I do have family in Wisco, if that's a valid excuse). Is lateraling from biglaw going to be more fruitful than trying to get a job outright? If so, would transferring to a Midwest T14 better position me? If I remain at my current school and get a biglaw offer post 2L, would spending my 3L as a visiting student at UW to intern/network be advisable?

Appreciate any tips

Breaking into Madison from a T17 is basically impossible. Different story for T16 and up though, so you should transfer to one of those.

But seriously, it sounds like you have pretty plausible ties. I definitely recommend getting a WI 1L position. I go to an out-of-state school and worked at the WI DOJ my first summer, and it didn't seem particularly hard to obtain (got an offer without an interview, and I don't consider myself a rockstar candidate), so you should shoot an app there in December.

If you end up getting a WI 1L job, network your ass off. Email alums from your law school and send cold emails asking them to lunch. I did that and had at least 1 lunch per week the whole summer, and I think it played a big role in landing my WI post-grad job. Even if connections don't directly lead to a job, it's always good interview practice to speak to attorneys as much as possible (this especially applies if you have no real work experience like me).

That said, I was born and raised in the Milwaukee area, so it wasn't really an uphill battle for me to get back. Strong ties are obviously really important. Firms screen for this, so you should sell your ties hard. But don't think you have to be born and raised here. A significant minority of my SA class actually had little or no real ties to Wisconsin and went to out-of-state schools, so it can be done. It's all about how you spin it.

Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the input!

I was actually born and raised an hour or two from Madison, too, so your assessment is encouraging.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the input!

I was actually born and raised an hour or two from Madison, too, so your assessment is encouraging.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry that much about ties then. But you should still throw that in your responses (e.g. "Why X Firm?" "Because I was born/raised here and all my family is in WI, and X Firm has a great reputation in Wisconsin, blah blah").

One thing to note, though. Madison is nearly impossible to crack even with strong ties and top schools/grades. There's like 1-2 SA slots maximum at each firm there, and a lot of them are reserved for IP candidates. It's basically a bunch of satellite offices. You should go hard on Milwaukee if your goal is to stay in Wisconsin. FWIW, I got shut out of Madison and I was top 20% or so at a T14. Ended up going to Milwaukee, and I'm happy I ended up there. It's better to be at the home office for many reasons.

But I think all my above comments are still pretty accurate w/r/t the Wisconsin market generally.

[jbagelboy]

Just came in to say lol @ T17

[BuckinghamB]

Breaking into Madison from a T17 is basically impossible. Different story for T16 and up though, so you should transfer to one of those.

[Anonymous User]

Just came in to say lol @ T17

Thanks. Wanted to indicate that I went to one of UCLA/UT/Vandy, obviously.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the input!

I was actually born and raised an hour or two from Madison, too, so your assessment is encouraging.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry that much about ties then. But you should still throw that in your responses (e.g. "Why X Firm?" "Because I was born/raised here and all my family is in WI, and X Firm has a great reputation in Wisconsin, blah blah").

One thing to note, though. Madison is nearly impossible to crack even with strong ties and top schools/grades. There's like 1-2 SA slots maximum at each firm there, and a lot of them are reserved for IP candidates. It's basically a bunch of satellite offices. You should go hard on Milwaukee if your goal is to stay in Wisconsin. FWIW, I got shut out of Madison and I was top 20% or so at a T14. Ended up going to Milwaukee, and I'm happy I ended up there. It's better to be at the home office for many reasons.

But I think all my above comments are still pretty accurate w/r/t the Wisconsin market generally.

Yeah I'll be hitting Milwaukee hard, I'm not really expecting a shot at a big firm in Madison. For my family situation, really any legal job in Madison would probably be a better option than biglaw in MKE/Chicago/Minneapolis, though; do you have any anecdata on getting govt/small law lit in Madison? (not necessarily as a fresh grad -- there's no massive rush to get there)

Thanks again for all your input.

[tww909]

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate the input!

I was actually born and raised an hour or two from Madison, too, so your assessment is encouraging.

Yeah, I wouldn't worry that much about ties then. But you should still throw that in your responses (e.g. "Why X Firm?" "Because I was born/raised here and all my family is in WI, and X Firm has a great reputation in Wisconsin, blah blah").

One thing to note, though. Madison is nearly impossible to crack even with strong ties and top schools/grades. There's like 1-2 SA slots maximum at each firm there, and a lot of them are reserved for IP candidates. It's basically a bunch of satellite offices. You should go hard on Milwaukee if your goal is to stay in Wisconsin. FWIW, I got shut out of Madison and I was top 20% or so at a T14. Ended up going to Milwaukee, and I'm happy I ended up there. It's better to be at the home office for many reasons.

But I think all my above comments are still pretty accurate w/r/t the Wisconsin market generally.

Yeah I'll be hitting Milwaukee hard, I'm not really expecting a shot at a big firm in Madison. For my family situation, really any legal job in Madison would probably be a better option than biglaw in MKE/Chicago/Minneapolis, though; do you have any anecdata on getting govt/small law lit in Madison? (not necessarily as a fresh grad -- there's no massive rush to get there)

Thanks again for all your input.

For small law the answer is (as it is anywhere) networking like crazy. Most don't post opening or hire summers (unless you're talking about firms like Dewitt or Boardman or something like that, but I guess I think of those more like midlaw) and most have a very strong relationship with UW and Marquette. I was at UW for 1L (later transferred), and I worked at a small firm in Madison my 1L summer and that came out of networking. The firm doesn't post anywhere, didn't (at the time at least) hire summers, and certainly didn't do OCI anywhere (including UW). For what it's worth firms outside Wisconsin didn't treat that decision as a red flag or anything - I had plenty of offers in other major and secondary markets.

I second the advice that if you want to end up there you should do something in Madison 1L summer. There are a decent number of judicial externships and other unpaid gigs like State DOJ available, and I think if you try hard enough and sell your ties you should be able to find something around there. A lot of UW 1Ls do clinics their first summer, so the competition isn't as fierce as it is for entry level positions or 2L summer.

As far as state government goes I can't speak first hand, but from talking to friends it seems like the best way is just to hitch yourself to some agency and hope it one day transitions into a permanent position. Believe it or not the current level of postings on the state jobs website for Madison is actually significantly higher than usually. Go check out: http://wisc.jobs/public/index.asp.

The truth is it's a really hard market to crack no matter what your goals are. If I were in your position I would do my 1L summer in Madison, network like crazy, apply everywhere for 2L summer, and hope. Oh and also get good grades.

edited for clarity

[Anonymous User]

Thanks a lot!