What do people mean by dream firm? Forum

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[Pikappraider]

+1. It is annoying as hell and not helpful in the slightest. I worked my ass off for 3 years prior to law school at a startup and averaged 60k a year. 160k for slightly longer hours sounds pretty fucking good. The whole "woe is me I am in the top 2% of income and have to work hard" attitude is entitled and childish.

we get it. you work in big law and work a lot of hours. no need to keep alluding to it in every other thread.

I don't think I have ever, ever complained about my hours on here. The hours are not what makes it suck. I don't know how many times I have to say that, but that's not the thing that makes it suck.

so what makes it suck that is not common to every other white collar high pressure job? Genuinely curious as I have friends in every comparable industry who work similar hours for much less pay (except for a few IB friends, fuck them) and they all hate work too. Its work. My doctor friends seem to like it finally but they hated it during residency and med school, probably much more so than law students.

The only people I can think of who are loving it are my friends who either fell into a big family business or one person I know who is crushing with a start up.

[Desert Fox]

What about elite boutiques like Susman/Keker/Bartlit/Kellogg?

Like I said, the most prefstiogous firm you can get into.

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[DELG]

+1. It is annoying as hell and not helpful in the slightest. I worked my ass off for 3 years prior to law school at a startup and averaged 60k a year. 160k for slightly longer hours sounds pretty fucking good. The whole "woe is me I am in the top 2% of income and have to work hard" attitude is entitled and childish.

we get it. you work in big law and work a lot of hours. no need to keep alluding to it in every other thread.

I don't think I have ever, ever complained about my hours on here. The hours are not what makes it suck. I don't know how many times I have to say that, but that's not the thing that makes it suck.

so what makes it suck that is not common to every other white collar high pressure job? Genuinely curious as I have friends in every comparable industry who work similar hours for much less pay (except for a few IB friends, fuck them) and they all hate work too. Its work. My doctor friends seem to like it finally but they hated it during residency and med school, probably much more so than law students.

The only people I can think of who are loving it are my friends who either fell into a big family business or one person I know who is crushing with a start up.

Yes, every non-KJD knows work sucks. Firm life sucks in a special, soul-sucking way that you will understand soon enough.

[FKASunny]

+1. It is annoying as hell and not helpful in the slightest. I worked my ass off for 3 years prior to law school at a startup and averaged 60k a year. 160k for slightly longer hours sounds pretty fucking good. The whole "woe is me I am in the top 2% of income and have to work hard" attitude is entitled and childish.

we get it. you work in big law and work a lot of hours. no need to keep alluding to it in every other thread.

I don't think I have ever, ever complained about my hours on here. The hours are not what makes it suck. I don't know how many times I have to say that, but that's not the thing that makes it suck.

so what makes it suck that is not common to every other white collar high pressure job? Genuinely curious as I have friends in every comparable industry who work similar hours for much less pay (except for a few IB friends, fuck them) and they all hate work too. Its work. My doctor friends seem to like it finally but they hated it during residency and med school, probably much more so than law students.

The only people I can think of who are loving it are my friends who either fell into a big family business or one person I know who is crushing with a start up.

Yes, every non-KJD knows work sucks. Firm life sucks in a special, soul-sucking way that you will understand soon enough.

Your evasive answer is unconvincing.

[mvp99]

I have had people tell me working for Google sucks... like big time I want out. Maybe being an adult sucks in general.

[5ky]

+1. It is annoying as hell and not helpful in the slightest. I worked my ass off for 3 years prior to law school at a startup and averaged 60k a year. 160k for slightly longer hours sounds pretty fucking good. The whole "woe is me I am in the top 2% of income and have to work hard" attitude is entitled and childish.

we get it. you work in big law and work a lot of hours. no need to keep alluding to it in every other thread.

I don't think I have ever, ever complained about my hours on here. The hours are not what makes it suck. I don't know how many times I have to say that, but that's not the thing that makes it suck.

I'll throw my hat in the ring to complain about my hours.

Actually it's the hours and unpredictability of those hours that I like least about biglaw.

[Man from Nantucket]

+1. It is annoying as hell and not helpful in the slightest. I worked my ass off for 3 years prior to law school at a startup and averaged 60k a year. 160k for slightly longer hours sounds pretty fucking good. The whole "woe is me I am in the top 2% of income and have to work hard" attitude is entitled and childish.

we get it. you work in big law and work a lot of hours. no need to keep alluding to it in every other thread.

I don't think I have ever, ever complained about my hours on here. The hours are not what makes it suck. I don't know how many times I have to say that, but that's not the thing that makes it suck.

so what makes it suck that is not common to every other white collar high pressure job? Genuinely curious as I have friends in every comparable industry who work similar hours for much less pay (except for a few IB friends, fuck them) and they all hate work too. Its work. My doctor friends seem to like it finally but they hated it during residency and med school, probably much more so than law students.

The only people I can think of who are loving it are my friends who either fell into a big family business or one person I know who is crushing with a start up.

Yes, every non-KJD knows work sucks. Firm life sucks in a special, soul-sucking way that you will understand soon enough.

Once again, what makes law firm life any more soul sucking than any other high paying white collar job? What makes law so much worse than investment banking, surgery specialties, consulting, etc. to warrant the non-stop complaining on this forum?

[anyriotgirl]

[Desert Fox]

+1. It is annoying as hell and not helpful in the slightest. I worked my ass off for 3 years prior to law school at a startup and averaged 60k a year. 160k for slightly longer hours sounds pretty fucking good. The whole "woe is me I am in the top 2% of income and have to work hard" attitude is entitled and childish.

we get it. you work in big law and work a lot of hours. no need to keep alluding to it in every other thread.

I don't think I have ever, ever complained about my hours on here. The hours are not what makes it suck. I don't know how many times I have to say that, but that's not the thing that makes it suck.

so what makes it suck that is not common to every other white collar high pressure job? Genuinely curious as I have friends in every comparable industry who work similar hours for much less pay (except for a few IB friends, fuck them) and they all hate work too. Its work. My doctor friends seem to like it finally but they hated it during residency and med school, probably much more so than law students.

The only people I can think of who are loving it are my friends who either fell into a big family business or one person I know who is crushing with a start up.

Yes, every non-KJD knows work sucks. Firm life sucks in a special, soul-sucking way that you will understand soon enough.

I make 3 times what I made before LS. I would strangle a baby to get it back.

[Anonymous User]

Your evasive answer is unconvincing.

I work for a rotating cast of sociopaths. The fun part is, each one is sociopathic in their own, highly cultivated, sociopathic way. Taglines include "no, what, exactly, were you thinking when you made this mistake? No, I just want to know, what was going through your head. Help me understand." And a smug favorite, "I have had every vacation ruined for the past 7 years." Or the always fun response to mission-critical clarifying questions, "you will need to figure it out yourself, it's how you learn." Other tactics that keep your creative juices flowing, ignoring all drafts for weeks, then issuing 20 emails in 3 minutes, each in ALL CAPS AND ASSORTED COLORS, with questions that need to be answered RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THIS IS FILING.

[Desert Fox]

Once again, what makes law firm life any more soul sucking than any other high paying white collar job? What makes law so much worse than investment banking, surgery specialties, consulting, etc. to warrant the non-stop complaining on this forum?

Investment banking? I'm not sure Big Law is worse. In fact I'm pretty sure Big Law is way better. IBers drop faster than BL associates.

Surgery is pretty bad too. But they have job security, tons of respect and make a great living.

Consultants have better hours, usually don't work weekends, and have great exit options.


Ibankers and Surgeons relentlessly bitch about their jobs. So your question isn't accurate.

[DELG]

Once again, what makes law firm life any more soul sucking than any other high paying white collar job? What makes law so much worse than investment banking, surgery specialties, consulting, etc. to warrant the non-stop complaining on this forum?

Investment banking? I'm not sure Big Law is worse. In fact I'm pretty sure Big Law is way better. IBers drop faster than BL associates.

Surgery is pretty bad too. But they have job security, tons of respect and make a great living.

Consultants have better hours, usually don't work weekends, and have great exit options.


Ibankers and Surgeons relentlessly bitch about their jobs. So your question isn't accurate.

What?! I am sure there aren't multiple forums dedicated to IB bros whining about how hard they have it

[FKASunny]

Once again, what makes law firm life any more soul sucking than any other high paying white collar job? What makes law so much worse than investment banking, surgery specialties, consulting, etc. to warrant the non-stop complaining on this forum?

Investment banking? I'm not sure Big Law is worse. In fact I'm pretty sure Big Law is way better. IBers drop faster than BL associates.

Surgery is pretty bad too. But they have job security, tons of respect and make a great living.

Consultants have better hours, usually don't work weekends, and have great exit options.


Ibankers and Surgeons relentlessly bitch about their jobs. So your question isn't accurate.

What?! I am sure there aren't multiple forums dedicated to IB bros whining about how hard they have it

because they don't have time

[DELG]

Once again, what makes law firm life any more soul sucking than any other high paying white collar job? What makes law so much worse than investment banking, surgery specialties, consulting, etc. to warrant the non-stop complaining on this forum?

Investment banking? I'm not sure Big Law is worse. In fact I'm pretty sure Big Law is way better. IBers drop faster than BL associates.

Surgery is pretty bad too. But they have job security, tons of respect and make a great living.

Consultants have better hours, usually don't work weekends, and have great exit options.


Ibankers and Surgeons relentlessly bitch about their jobs. So your question isn't accurate.

What?! I am sure there aren't multiple forums dedicated to IB bros whining about how hard they have it

because they don't have time

Sarcasm or retarded (LinkRemoved)

[cookiejar1]

Every night before I fall asleep I think about what I would do with my life if I were a trust fund baby. That's my dream.

[B.B. Homemaker]

I feel like something more than prestige sets those firms apart. They offer way more money and supposedly give junior associates way more responsibility. The average associate at those firms also bills something like 2600 hours though. But I don't work at one of those places, so I don't know what it's like.

2600 seems a bit low, actually. Sounds like the opposite of a dream firm situation.

[Anonymous User]

I mean, fuck. I actually like law. Love it, even. Wouldn't want to do anything else. I applied to a firm recently with a much worse hours reputation, because they do what I want to be doing. But I didn't even pick this practice area. I just got fucking shoved in it, and they won't let me rotate out. And also, they're all sociopaths.

[KidStuddi]

Would anyone doing lit in DC not choose W&C if they had the option? DF nailed it.

I want to do lit in DC but declined my CB at W&C because I am fond of the idea of seeing my family and the sun at the same time.

enjoy never seeing the sun from inside a shittier firm

Yeah, W&C isn't nearly as much of a slam dunk as people on here think. W&C doesn't pay bonuses to associates. Like they proudly don't do it as if bonuses should insult associates. Based on the information I could find when I was making my decision, lockstep + Cravath bonuses quickly catches and overtakes their pay. And the hours are noticeably worse than general BigLaw firms in D.C. -- and if you don't believe people like me who've done the legwork and spoken to dozens of WC associates, just look at their leverage ratio. Someone is doing a lot more work than their peers and I'm pretty sure it isn't the partners. So yeah, while W&C is a great firm and all, you're working more for less money. If you're picking them over Quinn, Kirkland, or Boies (all above market) or any of the big name boutiques in D.C. for general litigation, I can only imagine it's because you think there's a more realistic shot at partner at W&C and that's your endgame.

[vball1]

Compare W&C Profits Per Partner to Quinn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_la ... er_partner

Compare Revenue Per Lawyer to the firms you just listed. Lower Leverage =! working more. Maybe partners at W&C are satisfied with 1.2 mil.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/3191 ... worldwide/

RPL at W&C leads me to believe they may be billing less hours than the firms you have mentioned.

[B.B. Homemaker]

Statista can't even spell Wachtell right, so can we really rely on them?

[vball1]

Do you have access to another RPL list? It will like demonstrate the same point.

[B.B. Homemaker]

Do you have access to another RPL list? It will like demonstrate the same point.

I was joking, but yes, AmLaw has the same data.

[Anonymous User]

Compare W&C Profits Per Partner to Quinn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_la ... er_partner

Compare Revenue Per Lawyer to the firms you just listed.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/3191 ... worldwide/

RPL at W&C leads me to believe they may be billing less hours than the firms you have mentioned.

From the people I spoke to, they Bill more than the average DC biglaw firm, but not tremendously so, and significantly less than Quinn/Boies/Kirkland on average (although bad years can leave you with ~2500 if you get some big trials. From my speaking to a lot of associates,2200 is probably close to the mean hours.