Schiff Hardin vs. Winston and Strawn (Chicago) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any experience or thoughts on the differences between the firms or preferences? Thanks

[Anonymous User]

Bumping this. Anyone have any thoughts on their respective corporate groups, recommendations on which firm to pick? Thanks

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any experience or thoughts on the differences between the firms or preferences? Thanks

+1 interested as well

[20141023]

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[09042014]

Bumping this. Anyone have any thoughts on their respective corporate groups, recommendations on which firm to pick? Thanks

Schiff has a corporate group?

Winston has one?

[20141023]

.

[Anonymous User]

Winston does have a significant corporate group in Chicago and, from what I've heard, is actively looking to grow the practice. Winston is also considered one of the 4 or 5 best firms (overall) in terms of Chicago rep. Granted I know almost nothing about Sciff Hardin.

Also, Winston has a pretty friendly environment- at least from my CB visit (ie. moreso than most of my other callbacks)

[Anonymous User]

Winston does have a significant corporate group in Chicago and, from what I've heard, is actively looking to grow the practice. Winston is also considered one of the 4 or 5 best firms (overall) in terms of Chicago rep. Granted I know almost nothing about Sciff Hardin.

Also, Winston has a pretty friendly environment- at least from my CB visit (ie. moreso than most of my other callbacks)

Thank you. Yeah, I really enjoyed my CB at Winston as well. Much more laid back than at a lot of other firms. But laid back during CB doesn't necessarily equate to being great to work for. I have heard mixed things about Winston, but to be fair none of the ppl that had negative things to say about them worked there. The people that work there seem to be happy or as happy as you can be in biglaw. Are you thinking about taking Winston?

[Rahviveh]

Winston no-offered a bunch of people a couple years ago:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... it=winston

[Anonymous User]

Winston no-offered a bunch of people a couple years ago:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... it=winston

Yeah, that's usually the biggest negative I hear. But they have given 100% offers the past two years so I am not as worried about that. Anyone have any experience working at or working with Schiff?

[Mal Reynolds]

Winston no-offered a bunch of people a couple years ago:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... it=winston

Yeah, that's usually the biggest negative I hear. But they have given 100% offers the past two years so I am not as worried about that. Anyone have any experience working at or working with Schiff?

It's amazing how short people's memories are when it comes to legal hiring. I would never work at Latham or Winston.

[Pulsar]

I kinda doubt Winston is one of the 4-5 best firms in Chicago. It's probably behind KE, Sidley, Jenner, and Mayer at least, and then there's the large satellite offices of other firms (Latham, Skadden, etc.).

[thisiswater]

Winston no-offered a bunch of people a couple years ago:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... it=winston

Yeah, that's usually the biggest negative I hear. But they have given 100% offers the past two years so I am not as worried about that. Anyone have any experience working at or working with Schiff?

It's amazing how short people's memories are when it comes to legal hiring. I would never work at Latham or Winston.

Even if it was your only offer? I can understand it not being your first choice obviously

[Mal Reynolds]

Sounds like this guy has two choices. I would immediately pick schiff.

[20141023]

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[Mal Reynolds]

It's probably not archived for self-serving reasons. But it's not super hard to find information on places like TLS, ATL and general news sources in the legal community.

[beepboopbeep]

Winston no-offered a bunch of people a couple years ago:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... it=winston

Yeah, that's usually the biggest negative I hear. But they have given 100% offers the past two years so I am not as worried about that. Anyone have any experience working at or working with Schiff?

It's amazing how short people's memories are when it comes to legal hiring. I would never work at Latham or Winston.

What about Weil? Mayer? Jones Day? Faegre? Kasowitz? Lot of firms show up under the "layoff watch" tag on ATL as having axed lawyers en masse in recent years. Hard to avoid them all. Obviously there can be differences in how bad x or y no-offer/layoff is.

Mal I'm pushing on your post a bit because I have the same attitude - did not bid Latham/Winston or even massmail them, so I guess I'm putting my money where my mouth is re: thisiswater's question - but I'm not sure it's also not an example of having a short memory. Curious to hear from someone who's been around for a while. Maybe it's a question better asked in DF's Latham/Winston thread.

[Mal Reynolds]

Yeah those are the other ones I have heard about. But compare the Jones Day layoffs with Latham. Jones Day was rumored to have laid off ten associates in one office. All businesses shift their personnel based on demand changes. But it's nothing like the structural layoffs that Latham made in the recession. Those numbered in the hundreds. And there is still talk that their hiring is based off of an expectation that there will be massive layoffs in the future. It's almost embedded in their business model. I've heard of other firms that "succeeded" in not laying off associates during the contraction. Not sure how true that it but you are always going to have to work off of imperfect information.

[20141023]

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[09042014]

Yeah, Jones Day is one of those firms that even uses the fact that it didn't lay off many people during the recession as a selling point on its website, so there are definitely firms that have comparatively non-shitty / non-Latham business models.

However, something that always worries me is the fact that a lot of the offices of biglaw firms (especially in secondary markets) tout 100% offer rates while actually cold-offering a decent portion of their classes. For example, a somewhat preftigious American biglaw in one of the secondary markets I am shooting for (you all will know which one, but I am not going to state it here in order to remain somewhat anonymous) brings in about 10 2Ls each summer, but it apparently cold offers about 3 of them each year. This information is not available online anywhere, and the only reason I found out is because one of my friends summered there last year and witnessed it first hand.

Unless it is a major layoff, it is going to be difficult to find relevant information on ATL or even TLS.

http://abovethelaw.com/2014/02/nationwi ... -laid-low/

As of now, we hear the megafirm sent a partner walking the halls of the New York office last week, telling litigators to consider the enriching employment opportunities of “somewhere else.”


The website of Jones Day is crowing about the opening of its new office in Perth. Meanwhile, the firm continues to be making more ($13.7 million in fees over 75 days) from Detroit’s misery than OmniCorp. That doesn’t sound like a firm tightening its belt.

But we’re hearing that on Thursday, Jones Day partner Charles Carberry took a list of names — rumored to be 10 or more — and stopped by the offices of these mid-level litigation associates to inform them that they had about three to six months to move on. That’s rough. Even in the boom years, the most successful job transitions take a few months to wrap up. No details on any sort of severance package, but hopefully the firm is offering something to keep these folks over until they can get a new job or decide to join Alex Rich, Mercenary Lawyer in the bleak embrace of contract work.

See what I mean?

[Anonymous User]

Anon OP here. I am leaning towards Winston here. I agree with what DF said in his thread. Can't hold what firms did a few years ago against them. And it seems to have the best exit options available. Any disagreements with that or thoughts on Schiff? Thanks everyone

[rickgrimes69]

Anon OP here. I am leaning towards Winston here. I agree with what DF said in his thread. Can't hold what firms did a few years ago against them.

Yes you can, and you should. Winston didn't just no-offer a couple SAs. It deferred offers in 2009, no-offered almost a third of its 2012 summer class, and conducted multiple rounds of layoffs of both lit and corp associates in 2011 and 2012. That's not the sign of a stable, financially healthy firm. I would only work there if I had no other option.

[20141023]

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[wojo98]

Anon OP here. I am leaning towards Winston here. I agree with what DF said in his thread. Can't hold what firms did a few years ago against them.

Yes you can, and you should. Winston didn't just no-offer a couple SAs. It deferred offers in 2009, no-offered almost a third of its 2012 summer class, and conducted multiple rounds of layoffs of both lit and corp associates in 2011 and 2012. That's not the sign of a stable, financially healthy firm. I would only work there if I had no other option.

TITCR. I intentionally didn't bid Winston for this exact reason (where there's smoke there's fire - a la Bingham McCutchen).

Unrelated (and anecdotal), Schiff may have been the most pleasant Chicago firm with whom I interviewed (though I ended up at a different Chicago firm). Great people. If you're looking for stability (over financial upside), Schiff's non-lockstep compensation model is also built for associate retention (rather than an up and out model of some of the larger shops).

If you're leaning litigation, I'd take Schiff over Winston (rankings be damned) and wouldn't look back.