Salary Question Forum

[ChiCube21]

hi everybody,

long time lurker; first time poster! love the site.

so, i graduated law school last year and since then, i have been working a fellowship that i got after my third year (it's not the greatest paying job, but i realize how lucky i am in this market). unfortunately, the fellowship ends in august and i've been looking for a job for a while now, trying to line something up for when this ends.

so, i think i may have found a really good lead -- i've been on two interviews with this firm in recent weeks. late in the day today, the partner that i interviewed with the second time emailed me and asked about salary. i'm not really sure what kind of salary to ask for. but in his email he asked what i am currently making and what i would hope to make at his firm here are the details:

i graduated from a less than stellar school in chicago slightly above median. i have been working in the area for the past year. the firm is a 15 attorney firm and while they have other "practice areas," it's mainly a collections mill -- from what i can tell from the two interviews and google searches, they primarily do collections on behalf of banks -- like small business loans, credit cards and student loans. there is also a small amount of insurance defense, as well, i think.

anyway. i'm wondering what kind of salary i should hint at in my first reply. any insight would be really helpful and greatly appreciated.

[KD35]

hi everybody,

long time lurker; first time poster! love the site.

so, i graduated law school last year and since then, i have been working a fellowship that i got after my third year (it's not the greatest paying job, but i realize how lucky i am in this market). unfortunately, the fellowship ends in august and i've been looking for a job for a while now, trying to line something up for when this ends.

so, i think i may have found a really good lead -- i've been on two interviews with this firm in recent weeks. late in the day today, the partner that i interviewed with the second time emailed me and asked about salary. i'm not really sure what kind of salary to ask for. but in his email he asked what i am currently making and what i would hope to make at his firm here are the details:

i graduated from a less than stellar school in chicago slightly above median. i have been working in the area for the past year. the firm is a 15 attorney firm and while they have other "practice areas," it's mainly a collections mill -- from what i can tell from the two interviews and google searches, they primarily do collections on behalf of banks -- like small business loans, credit cards and student loans. there is also a small amount of insurance defense, as well, i think.

anyway. i'm wondering what kind of salary i should hint at in my first reply. any insight would be really helpful and greatly appreciated.

I don't have a sense of what you should list but have you considered looking at your school's employment numbers/median salary info that they are required to release in order to get a range?

[Lacepiece23]

hi everybody,

long time lurker; first time poster! love the site.

so, i graduated law school last year and since then, i have been working a fellowship that i got after my third year (it's not the greatest paying job, but i realize how lucky i am in this market). unfortunately, the fellowship ends in august and i've been looking for a job for a while now, trying to line something up for when this ends.

so, i think i may have found a really good lead -- i've been on two interviews with this firm in recent weeks. late in the day today, the partner that i interviewed with the second time emailed me and asked about salary. i'm not really sure what kind of salary to ask for. but in his email he asked what i am currently making and what i would hope to make at his firm here are the details:

i graduated from a less than stellar school in chicago slightly above median. i have been working in the area for the past year. the firm is a 15 attorney firm and while they have other "practice areas," it's mainly a collections mill -- from what i can tell from the two interviews and google searches, they primarily do collections on behalf of banks -- like small business loans, credit cards and student loans. there is also a small amount of insurance defense, as well, i think.

anyway. i'm wondering what kind of salary i should hint at in my first reply. any insight would be really helpful and greatly appreciated.

Any chance you could fine similar firms on the internet and see what they normally pay? Maybe your firm's starting salary isn't listed, but another small firm might list theirs.

[AP-375]

I think that this could be considered a manipulative question, or at least a bold negotiation tactic. They have all the info, but they put it on you to make a guess. Guess too high, you might price yourself out of a job. Guess too low, you just cost yourself money. (And surely they're aware that in this market, you'll go risk averse and guess lower than they would have offered you.)
SO, why not respectfully, tactfully flip it back over to them by recapping your relevant experience and saying that you're looking for fair compensation commensurate with what the firm, or other similar firms, have paid others with similar experience.
In this negotiation, you'd basically just be declining to make the first offer, which might be a good idea considering the asymmetry of information.
Just an alternative idea to poking around on Google for 20 minutes and throwing a number out there.

[Johann]

I think that this could be considered a manipulative question, or at least a bold negotiation tactic. They have all the info, but they put it on you to make a guess. Guess too high, you might price yourself out of a job. Guess too low, you just cost yourself money. (And surely they're aware that in this market, you'll go risk averse and guess lower than they would have offered you.)
SO, why not respectfully, tactfully flip it back over to them by recapping your relevant experience and saying that you're looking for fair compensation commensurate with what the firm, or other similar firms, have paid others with similar experience.
In this negotiation, you'd basically just be declining to make the first offer, which might be a good idea considering the asymmetry of information.
Just an alternative idea to poking around on Google for 20 minutes and throwing a number out there.

Ya, I'd do this.

[ggocat]

Well... what are you making now? They ask that question because it's your base. I wouldn't "flip it around" given that you are probably fungible and not bringing anything to the firm they can't get elsewhere.

But i do agree it's not usually a good sign when your future employer is trying to lowball you on compensation.

Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

It's a business. Outside of large law firms, salaries are generally negotiable. That's how most employment in the world works. I'd guess that $85,000 would be a reasonable request. I would reply with an honest statement of your current salary and indicate you think in light of the work and hours required something in that range would be appropriate. Of course, if you want to avoid answering the question, that's fine, just expect an extreme lowball response.

I'm assuming that you're making in the $40,000 range currently and that this firm you're looking at has a reasonably steady but not super profitable practice. A shop of 15 lawyers is a world away from K&E and isn't going to have any preset lock step compensation system. They may not really know what the market will pay. They probably don't hire very often.

[AP-375]

It's a business. Outside of large law firms, salaries are generally negotiable. That's how most employment in the world works. I'd guess that $85,000 would be a reasonable request. I would reply with an honest statement of your current salary and indicate you think in light of the work and hours required something in that range would be appropriate. Of course, if you want to avoid answering the question, that's fine, just expect an extreme lowball response.

I'm assuming that you're making in the $40,000 range currently and that this firm you're looking at has a reasonably steady but not super profitable practice. A shop of 15 lawyers is a world away from K&E and isn't going to have any preset lock step compensation system. They may not really know what the market will pay. They probably don't hire very often.

That all makes sense, but if your fellowship is anything like most school-funded fellowships, it probably pays a barely livable wage, and you don't want to use that as your starting point for a "real" job.

[bdubs]

Ask for 25% of your billings.