It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms Forum

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jbagelboy

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It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by jbagelboy » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:36 pm

With OCI around the corner, and all the recent instructive bashing of private sector work, I'd love to know TLS thinks the "best" firms are (among 100+ firms, since we won't all know the super regional ones) - suppose you could choose - or do it all over again - where would you work? Consider QoL, salary, career advancement, ect. (Obviously many of us will be fortunate to have *a* job, but humor us incoming 2L's).

Also feel free to mention where you definitely would not work/firms to steer clear of (the worst).

Or if you just want to talk about the plus/minus of your own firm, that's great too. Just please come up with something more creative than Vault when justifying choices!

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jbiresq

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by jbiresq » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:41 pm

This thread will be a bunch of people posting about how Firm A is a sweat shop and then a bunch of others posting about how Firm A is an amazing place and everyone is happy.

OP just focus on getting an offer and then you can start thinking about which place has the nicer people.

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brotherdarkness

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by brotherdarkness » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:52 pm

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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tanicius

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by Tanicius » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:53 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:A lot of this is going to be subjective, too. What suits one person may not suit another; you can't really say that any one firm is "great."
/end thread

Some people actually don't want to work Wachtell even if they get the offer there. Surprise surprise, it depends.

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by cookiejar1 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:37 pm

How about sharing random tidbits about firms that you wouldn't otherwise get from Vault/Chambers-Associate (e.g. Jenner is liberal!)?

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brotherdarkness

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by brotherdarkness » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:51 pm

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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by jbagelboy » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:53 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:A lot of this is going to be subjective, too. What suits one person may not suit another; you can't really say that any one firm is "great."
I mean, this is totally fair and naturally it's a subjective exercise, but people could still lend their impressions. A lot of the practicing attorneys on this site complain about their work, and sure it's for good reason, but if they could have done something differently or gone to a different firm that advice could be valuable.

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by JVK » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:05 pm

cookiejar1 wrote:How about sharing random tidbits about firms that you wouldn't otherwise get from Vault/Chambers-Associate (e.g. Jenner is liberal!)?
I'm completely on board with this (although I just finished 1L, too).

I keep hearing about the need to choose a firm based on culture and fit, but the problem's that I have no way of gauging that before I summer there, at which point I've already locked myself into the firm (no way of repeating OCI, etc.).

I know impressions are subjective, but surely there are a few things that can be passed on. If you're a more subdued person who goes out occasionally but not often and X firm works great for you, I'd love to know that, etc.

Anything at all helps!

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:11 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:If you can't bench two plates, you won't get a CB from Latham.
That's why I didn't get a CB.

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pertristis

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by pertristis » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:If you can't bench two plates, you won't get a CB from Latham.
That's why I didn't get a CB.
Whoops, that wasn't supposed to be an anon.

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by NYSprague » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:28 pm

Just curious, how many offers are you planning to get? Which firms are you expecting will give you an offer?

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by jbagelboy » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:44 pm

NYSprague wrote:Just curious, how many offers are you planning to get? Which firms are you expecting will give you an offer?
Me? Would be happy with one offer :) but the bid list stage over the next month or so both determines and precedes what firms we could even net offers from. Moreover, why so serious?

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by NYSprague » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:51 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
NYSprague wrote:Just curious, how many offers are you planning to get? Which firms are you expecting will give you an offer?
Me? Would be happy with one offer :) but the bid list stage over the next month or so both determines and precedes what firms we could even net offers from. Moreover, why so serious?
I was asking generally. I think if you want answers you need to specify firms and perhaps even practice groups. And, really, are you going to use anonymous anecdotes to make your bid list?

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by JVK » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:57 pm

NYSprague wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
NYSprague wrote:Just curious, how many offers are you planning to get? Which firms are you expecting will give you an offer?
Me? Would be happy with one offer :) but the bid list stage over the next month or so both determines and precedes what firms we could even net offers from. Moreover, why so serious?
I was asking generally. I think if you want answers you need to specify firms and perhaps even practice groups. And, really, are you going to use anonymous anecdotes to make your bid list?
It's not an end-all, but information helps. Nobody can plan on having a spectrum of choices but small, candid bits about a firm and what a person did in a practice group there aren't useless information, either.

There are things way more off-topic on this forum than someone's personal experience at their law firm. I don't think this is worth discouraging.

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by brazleton » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:11 pm

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Last edited by brazleton on Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sundance95

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by sundance95 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:11 pm

NYSprague wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
NYSprague wrote:Just curious, how many offers are you planning to get? Which firms are you expecting will give you an offer?
Me? Would be happy with one offer :) but the bid list stage over the next month or so both determines and precedes what firms we could even net offers from. Moreover, why so serious?
I was asking generally. I think if you want answers you need to specify firms and perhaps even practice groups. And, really, are you going to use anonymous anecdotes to make your bid list?
This, and then some. Law students tend to view firms as unitary, but they are not. You could work for the objectively most kind, nice, kumbaya singing firm, but if the partner you work with all the time is the one asshole there you'll still be miserable.

911 crisis actor

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by 911 crisis actor » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:13 pm

Guys just do a search for [firm name] + culture

There are also just general 'culture' threads where people have talked about this stuff before

HTH

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911 crisis actor

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by 911 crisis actor » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:14 pm

But if you get an offer from Dickstein Shapiro I would advise accepting on the spot and cancelling all your other callbacks

HTH

toothbrush

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by toothbrush » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:22 pm

Our bidding process started up today in early stages, so I understand your sentiment. Though I echo the fact that some people will say great things about a firm and others terrible things. From what I understand, it largely depends on practice group/ assigning partner. Someone could be on a big case for 9 months in a small team and love it. Others could hate it.

I still like to hear anecdotal tales, though.

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:44 pm

Best: Munger, Tolles & Olson, hands down. I could pick pretty much any firm I wanted (top of the class at HYS) and I picked MTO and another firm that is higher ranked on Vault and split my summer. Summered there in the past 3 years and am clerking now but I will most likely return after my clerkship. Extremely high level work and good quality of life (relatively speaking, of course).

Only downsides are that it is difficult to get hired there and they are mostly litigation focused.

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by toothbrush » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Best: Munger, Tolles & Olson, hands down. I could pick pretty much any firm I wanted (top of the class at HYS) and I picked MTO and another firm that is higher ranked on Vault and split my summer. Summered there in the past 3 years and am clerking now but I will most likely return after my clerkship. Extremely high level work and good quality of life (relatively speaking, of course).
What practice group were you in? Anything else you can share on MTO? I haven't heard about them before.
Last edited by toothbrush on Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:51 pm

toothbrush wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Best: Munger, Tolles & Olson, hands down. I could pick pretty much any firm I wanted (top of the class at HYS) and I picked MTO and another firm that is higher ranked on Vault and split my summer. Summered there in the past 3 years and am clerking now but I will most likely return after my clerkship. Extremely high level work and good quality of life (relatively speaking, of course).
What practice group were you in? Anything else you can share on MTO? I haven't heard about them before.
I did various types of litigation (notably, a cool entertainment law case). They don't have rigid practice groups and I did a bunch of different types of litigation assignments. Yes, they aren't as well known as some other firms and fly under the radar a little bit (maybe because they only have offices in California and many people want to practice on the east coast). They have had 3 partners confirmed to the 9th Circuit in the past few years, too.

I'm happy to share more information/opinions. Do you have any specific questions?

Edit: To the degree that there is a correlation between being "family friendly" and having a higher quality of life, this link might be of interest: http://abovethelaw.com/2014/04/the-top- ... irms-2014/

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by jbagelboy » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:53 pm

Anon: thanks for your comments. We have one for MTO.

Do you recommend splitting? How did you facilitate that - directly after OCI, or when you had two offers in hand?

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by Nelson » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:00 pm

The short version of this thread: work life is much better pretty much anywhere outside of NYC. Problem is, outside of NYC means either lower offer rates and less $ (secondary market) or insanely competitive (DC, CA).

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Re: It was the Best of firms, it was the Worst of firms

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:01 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Anon: thanks for your comments. We have one for MTO.

Do you recommend splitting? How did you facilitate that - directly after OCI, or when you had two offers in hand?
Yes, I recommend splitting. First, off it hedges your bets. Though I'm sure I didn't really have to worry about it, I rested a little easier knowing that if I got no-offered from one firm I still had the other firm to receive an offer from (and I picked a firm that historically gives out 100% offers too). Also, if you dislike one of your firms unexpectedly you can still go to the other and not be stuck with either 3L OCI or lateraling as an associate. Second, it gives you a point of comparison. Though biglaw firms are probably more similar than different, there are still material differences between them in culture, practice areas, etc. It's useful to actually get experience in two different firms.

I facilitated that only when I had two offers in hand, though I'm pretty sure the topic of splitting came up organically during OCI and callbacks with both firms. MTO actually is pretty easy to split with and they encourage it (subject to some restrictions).

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