How to strike out at OCI Forum

[rayiner]

I majored in geology and told TX firms during 1L OCI that I was interested in oil & gas and energy when they asked. Should I not do that? I worked in an unrelated field for 3 years after graduation fwiw. I don't actually feel super strongly about any one field.

No, that's fine. If you have a background and interest in an in-demand area, and the firm you're talking to actually does substantial amounts of that work,* then its okay to pitch yourself for that area. Oil and gas isn't niche, its booming, and firms are hiring for it. Same for patent lit. But don't tell Jenner you really want to do copyright lit, just because there's one person at the firm with a copyright practice...

*) Don't rely on firm websites to ascertain that. They list every practice area they've ever done, even if they don't do a lot of work. Look at sources like Am Law, NLJ, etc, to see what firms are actually working on.

[Tiago Splitter]

How soon is too soon to start mass mailing? Is it ok if we start doing so around July 1st or is there a more appropriate time?

Bump

I read through the stop reading tea leaves thread and can't remember seeing a consensus and I figured since some of you bros know even more about large firm hiring now you could share some insight. Was thinking of starting in July. Too soon? Too late?

Yeah July is fine. Start developing a plan now for where you'll focus your OCI bids and where you'll focus mass mailing, and it's never too early to draft some cover letters.

Saying you want to do apallet is particularly bad, even worse than saying you want to do other niche areas like tax or ERISA

And at the big NYC firms tax or ERISA goals would be fine.

[Anonymous User]

I majored in geology and told TX firms during 1L OCI that I was interested in oil & gas and energy when they asked. Should I not do that? I worked in an unrelated field for 3 years after graduation fwiw. I don't actually feel super strongly about any one field.

No, that's fine. If you have a background and interest in an in-demand area, and the firm you're talking to actually does substantial amounts of that work,* then its okay to pitch yourself for that area. Oil and gas isn't niche, its booming, and firms are hiring for it. Same for patent lit. But don't tell Jenner you really want to do copyright lit, just because there's one person at the firm with a copyright practice...

*) Don't rely on firm websites to ascertain that. They list every practice area they've ever done, even if they don't do a lot of work. Look at sources like Am Law, NLJ, etc, to see what firms are actually working on.

Good overall point, really poor example (especially if you are looking beyond the Chicago office).

[Anonymous User]

1) Bid too heavily firms with smaller SA class. I wished I would have focused on firms with the biggest SA classes = more change to get something.
2) Failing to stand out. My approach was to be myself which is laid back and unassuming. I wish I would have done more to be memorable than just, a "nice guy."
3) Generic interviews. I wish I would have done better reserach and mentioned 2-3 firm specific things per interview not just "oh y'all have a great real estate department, I like real estate."
4) Went to a big in state undergrad w/ a powerhouse football team. Can't really change that.

[Anonymous User]

Think that screeners =callbacks=job

I dunno. I think there is a CB number where it's safe to suspend massmailing, but the number probably varies by market.

Terrible advice.

Nothing is guaranteed. Hustle until you have a SA.

[09042014]

1) Bid too heavily firms with smaller SA class. I wished I would have focused on firms with the biggest SA classes = more change to get something.
2) Failing to stand out. My approach was to be myself which is laid back and unassuming. I wish I would have done more to be memorable than just, a "nice guy."
3) Generic interviews. I wish I would have done better reserach and mentioned 2-3 firm specific things per interview not just "oh y'all have a great real estate department, I like real estate."
4) Went to a big in state undergrad w/ a powerhouse football team. Can't really change that.

wut

[DELG]

Think that screeners =callbacks=job

I dunno. I think there is a CB number where it's safe to suspend massmailing, but the number probably varies by market.

Terrible advice.

Nothing is guaranteed. Hustle until you have a SA.

If you have 15 CBs in NYC, you're probably good. 10? Probably also fine. 7? Eh. It's been blown before.

[rayiner]

I majored in geology and told TX firms during 1L OCI that I was interested in oil & gas and energy when they asked. Should I not do that? I worked in an unrelated field for 3 years after graduation fwiw. I don't actually feel super strongly about any one field.

No, that's fine. If you have a background and interest in an in-demand area, and the firm you're talking to actually does substantial amounts of that work,* then its okay to pitch yourself for that area. Oil and gas isn't niche, its booming, and firms are hiring for it. Same for patent lit. But don't tell Jenner you really want to do copyright lit, just because there's one person at the firm with a copyright practice...

*) Don't rely on firm websites to ascertain that. They list every practice area they've ever done, even if they don't do a lot of work. Look at sources like Am Law, NLJ, etc, to see what firms are actually working on.

Good overall point, really poor example (especially if you are looking beyond the Chicago office).

They have a top-ranked copyright lit practice, but there are only six associates listed in the broader media and entertainment group, which handles much more than just copyright. I would be surprised if any associate there has a primarily copyright practice, but I'm happy to be corrected. Its not like patent lit, where K&E will hire a dozen first years from PLIP to do only patent.

[Danger Zone]

If you have 15 CBs in NYC, you're probably good. 10? Probably also fine. 7? Eh. It's been blown before.

As someone who had 8 CBs and only got an offer off the last one, I think I'd advise people that's it better to be safe. You can always cancel interviews once you get an offer you want.

[NYSprague]

1) Bid too heavily firms with smaller SA class. I wished I would have focused on firms with the biggest SA classes = more change to get something.
2) Failing to stand out. My approach was to be myself which is laid back and unassuming. I wish I would have done more to be memorable than just, a "nice guy."
3) Generic interviews. I wish I would have done better reserach and mentioned 2-3 firm specific things per interview not just "oh y'all have a great real estate department, I like real estate."
4) Went to a big in state undergrad w/ a powerhouse football team. Can't really change that.

Laid back can read as low energy/disinterested or even entitled. Raise your energy level to at least law school normal,but don't overdo it. Remember other students are going to be selling themselves to the firm, so in comparison laid back looks indifferent.

Research the firm in Google news so you can talk about recent or current cases or deals.

[Anonymous User]

I went into one screener with a national firm, and I had told them in my original app that I wanted city A. Then walked into screener and was like "actually, I'm only interested in your San Francisco office"

Did not get a CB

[09042014]

You show how laid back you are by being friendly, not by underselling yourself.

[DELG]

I went into one screener with a national firm, and I had told them in my original app that I wanted city A. Then walked into screener and was like "actually, I'm only interested in your San Francisco office"

Did not get a CB

And they dinged you for your Cole Haans

Lesson learned

[bk1]

Yeah I'm of the mind that it's possible to strike out even with a lot of CBs. Even if it's a low percentage chance, why take that risk? If you're the kind of person who could strike out after 8 CBs, you're probably the kind of person who could strike out after 15 CBs.

[Anonymous User]

I went into one screener with a national firm, and I had told them in my original app that I wanted city A. Then walked into screener and was like "actually, I'm only interested in your San Francisco office"

Did not get a CB

And they dinged you for your Cole Haans

Lesson learned

Lol. True story. Thank god Nyc doesn't care about what shoes you wear so long as you don't use them to walk out of the office before 10

[Anonymous User]

4) Went to a big in state undergrad w/ a powerhouse football team. Can't really change that.

wut

I've dinged someone for having gone to Alabama undergrad.

[Danger Zone]

4) Went to a big in state undergrad w/ a powerhouse football team. Can't really change that.

wut

I've dinged someone for having gone to Alabama undergrad.

Kill yourself

[09042014]

4) Went to a big in state undergrad w/ a powerhouse football team. Can't really change that.

wut

I've dinged someone for having gone to Alabama undergrad.

Kill yourself

This is only acceptable if he went to an SEC school.

[mw115]

4) Went to a big in state undergrad w/ a powerhouse football team. Can't really change that.

wut

I've dinged someone for having gone to Alabama undergrad.

Kill yourself

You clearly don't deal with Alabama fans on a regular basis. Or maybe you are one.

[Anonymous User]

I was OP.

I meant to say NOT going to a powerhouse football team school...

[NYSprague]

I was OP.

I meant to say NOT going to a powerhouse football team school...

Anti-Columbia trolling.

[M458]

You don't have to say "exclusively." If you pitch yourself harder for one certain practice area, that's the message interviewers get, even if you try to hedge with "but I am open to other things" or "I would be happy to do general lit too." I am not trying to rag on the guy who too bad advice from OCS, but bringing up a specific niche practice can be dangerous.

Would it be foolish to take this approach with real estate? Or is real estate a big enough/in-demand practice area? I'm thinking that's the practice area I'm most interested in, but would rather have any job than a job doing real estate work at a firm.

[lawhopeful10]

4) Went to a big in state undergrad w/ a powerhouse football team. Can't really change that.

wut

I've dinged someone for having gone to Alabama undergrad.

Are you jealous of all the crystal balls we have been bagging. Also lol at making massive generalizations about people over their undergrad choice.

[DELG]

You don't have to say "exclusively." If you pitch yourself harder for one certain practice area, that's the message interviewers get, even if you try to hedge with "but I am open to other things" or "I would be happy to do general lit too." I am not trying to rag on the guy who too bad advice from OCS, but bringing up a specific niche practice can be dangerous.

Would it be foolish to take this approach with real estate? Or is real estate a big enough/in-demand practice area? I'm thinking that's the practice area I'm most interested in, but would rather have any job than a job doing real estate work at a firm.

Better be SURE the firm has that group, AND it's big enough to take on new people. I can think of one firm where this would fuck you and another where bringing it up would be a good call (KE Chicago).

[NYSprague]

Reading over some threads from last year, found 4 more points:

1. Assuming that a screener went well, you had a good rapport with interviewer means you have a solid chance at a callback. People who do screeners are generally polished at interviewing, they will make most people feel good about their performance.

2. Not researching firms enough. This is your career, make a spreadsheet, binder, whatever, know the firm and your pitch to them. Know the class size and offer rate.

3. Not posting bidlists where 3Ls or alums can critique them in advance.

4. Assuming that getting a job is like getting into law schools. Your high GPA and law review don't in themselves guarantee you a job. Don't rely on stellar credentials to magically open doors. (This was posted before but it is good to be reminded.)


There was a ton of great information posted last year. Use it. Links to relevant threads are stickied (I'm not reposting them in this thread but I linked some in the Northwestern OCU thread.) Read through old threads from your schools OCI. Read to the end: prepare yourself for the abrupt switch from OCI questions to posts about dings and callbacks. OCI takes a long time to prepare for, and then suddenly it's done.