Giving advice in state where you aren't licensed (CA) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hey everyone,

I am currently working a non-legal job in CA. I took and passed the bar (and got my license) in another state. Someone I met through my current, non-legal job approached me and asked me to review her deposition transcript (divorce). English is her second language, and she told me that her attorney is hard to talk to and takes forever to schedule meetings. She wants me to go over her deposition with her and explain what was happening (she says she was nervous and that opposing counsel just kept repeating the same questions during the deposition).
I've tried to look at the CA rules, and it seems like I probably shouldn't do it, but I tend to be more cautious than I should. This woman knows that I am not licensed in CA, and she said she is willing to sign anything that says she understands that I can't give her legal advice in CA or anything else that might allow me to work with her.
Does anyone know of a rule that would allow me to review this with her? I also have a friend who is licensed in CA. Could I structure the contract so that my friend is the supervisor or something like that? It will probably only be a few hours of work, I'd say 10 at most, but if I can do it, I definitely want to since I'm poor!
Thanks in advance for any insight (including a rule that specifically prohibits what I'd like to do).

[MinEMorris]

I, unfortunately, don't know the answer to your situation (and given my status as unlicensed, it would probably be unauthorized practice of law to advise you even if I did), but I figured I'd point out that CA has an ethics hotline: http://ethics.calbar.ca.gov/Ethics/Hotline.aspx. I've never used it, but the site indicates that they can point you in the direction of relevant authorities for solving your ethical problem, which may include routes to do this sort of work without getting in professional responsibility hot water.

FWIW, I think it's neat that you're trying to play by the rules. I'm sure a lot of attorneys would (wrongfully) take on this sort of work without a second thought. Hope you figure out a solution.

[NotMyRealName09]

Im not admitted in California, and its funny but if i told you what i think it could be the unauthorized practice of law. So read this.


http://apps.calbar.ca.gov/mcleselfstudy ... ?testID=29

[helfer snooterbagon]

Expecting a shitstorm from this, but whatever: Personally, I think people go a little crazy with what constitutes this whole unauthorized practice of law thing. It would be one thing if you appeared in court with her and went on the record as her attorney. Just reading over the docs and giving your opinion is no big deal. Am I practicing medicine if someone tells me their symptoms and I recommend that they take a decongestant? If I take apart a cd player and try my hand at Lasik, that is probably an issue though.

[Anonymous User]

OP. My fear is that I am worried when I shouldn't be. It seems like the rules are mostly in place to protect the client. She knows I'm not licensed in CA. My rate would be lower than her attorney, she doesn't like her attorney personally, and she trusts my ability to explain her deposition to her. It seems like she should be able to make her choice without me getting in trouble. If I wasn't licensed at all, this wouldn't be an issue, and I didn't need law school to be able to analyze English and explain it to someone.

[helfer snooterbagon]

For what its worth, I have been licensed for a few years. Generally, your friends and family know you are a lawyer and will often throw a random question or idea your way. My take is that there is some common sense leeway. Of course, on a board full of prospective and current law students, there is no leeway.

[Tanicius]

Dude, OP, you can't do this. She's already represented by counsel in the state anyway. If her lawyer sucks, the best you can do is refer her to a better attorney.

You definitely can't charge her money to do this. If you're charging her money, you are undoubtedly working as an attorney. If truly all she needs is someone to translate words for her, then you should refer her to someone who speaks her language that isn't an attorney. Now why don't you want to refer her to a non-lawyer friend who speaks her language? Because you want to explain the legal terms and the legal significance of those terms, don't you? You want to provide her with a legal service. You explaining legal terms to her in her native language and the significance of those terms for her case, while charging her money, is undoubtedly the unauthorized practice of law.

For what its worth, I have been licensed for a few years. Generally, your friends and family know you are a lawyer and will often throw a random question or idea your way. My take is that there is some common sense leeway. Of course, on a board full of prospective and current law students, there is no leeway.

Absolutely. On paper, when you're taking the MPRE, this might violate the rules, but I don't gather it's very often enforced on a bright line. But when you're charging money or a trade of goods or services for the advice you're giving to your family, you're definitely practicing law.

[NotMyRealName09]

OP. My fear is that I am worried when I shouldn't be. It seems like the rules are mostly in place to protect the client. She knows I'm not licensed in CA. My rate would be lower than her attorney, she doesn't like her attorney personally, and she trusts my ability to explain her deposition to her. It seems like she should be able to make her choice without me getting in trouble. If I wasn't licensed at all, this wouldn't be an issue, and I didn't need law school to be able to analyze English and explain it to someone.

This isn't even debatable. You can translate, sure, but the second she asks "what does that mean in legal terms?" And you explain - boom, you're a criminal. And your rationalization that you both can agree for you to engage in the unauthorized practice of law is ridiculous. She doesn't know legal ethics, you're supposed to.

You're even considering putting this in writing. And your justification appears to be you need money - yeah I see that as a good defense before the attorney grievance commission.

Once you get caught (when she tells her current lawyer some other non-licensed attorney she paid gave her different advice, and that attorney follows their ethical obligation to report attorney misconduct), you'll also jeopardize your current license.

Did you actually read this? apps.calbar.ca.gov/mcleselfstudy/mcle_home.aspx?testID=29

“Birbrower observed that there is no statutory exception to §6125 which allows out-of-state attorneys to practice law in California as long as they associate local counsel in good standing with the State Bar, except by pro hac vice admission.” (Id., at p. 126, fn. 3; Cal.Rls. Ct. 9.40.)

According to this from the California Bar, Even if you associated, you cannot give advice, only the admitted attorney can give advice. I guess you could write something for the attorney to review and then adopt and sign - but I don't think that's what you're intending, you want to advise her directly.

All this is silly though - go ask your California admitted attorney friend if they'll do this, I bet they won't and if they are ethical, they should warn you off it.

[smallfirmassociate]

My response is that in general / where I practice, this is Bad News Bears. Talking to a represented client is bad. Offering legal advice is bad (she's only talking to you because she knows you're a lawyer, and she expects the advice to be legally-sufficient). Taking pay for it is REALLY bad. Disclaimer: All of the above is for my state; I am not licensed in your state and to the extent that asking about the unauthorized practice of law is itself a legal question in your jurisdiction(s), you should talk to an attorney licensed in the relevant state(s).

[worldtraveler]

If she's uncomfortable with her lawyer and doesn't understand what's going on that's a big problem. Tell her to find another attorney or hire a translator.