Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:44 pm

rpupkin wrote:
paraguayfargus wrote:How do you manage on only 6 hours of sleep? Do you make up for it on the weekends?

I cannot stress this enough. If your reaction is like paraguayfargus's here, do not go into big law. If you have a big law job and a family, you will go through stretches of months at a time where six hours of sleep will feel like a luxury.

If you're the type who is miserable when getting 4-5 hours of sleep a night, forget about big law as a career.


I don't have a family (just spouse, no kids) and I average 6 to 6.5 hours of sleep and when I'm busy I sleep less than 6 hours. That's because I often get home late and want to spend a couple of hours doing non-work stuff, so I usually go to bed around 2 am or so....if I literally just worked, commuted, eat and slept (and didn't do anything remotely fun), I guess I could average 8 hours of sleep. But what kind of life is that?

I'd say a lot of people sleep on average 6 to 7 hours and sometimes you have to sleep 2-3 hours if you're super busy.

If you can't work with little sleep, don't go into biglaw.....I was used to pulling 2 to 3 all nighters in a row in law school finals to get stuff done due to procrastination.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:38 pm

I was one of two young associates doing trial briefing for a major trial in another city. In 7 days, I slept 4 hours (2 x 2 hour naps). It was so bad that I had to get a hotel for one of those naps, and had to get a hotel room the day the trial ended, as I was not safe to drive. You definitely have to be able to function with no sleep at times.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was one of two young associates doing trial briefing for a major trial in another city. In 7 days, I slept 4 hours (2 x 2 hour naps). It was so bad that I had to get a hotel for one of those naps, and had to get a hotel room the day the trial ended, as I was not safe to drive. You definitely have to be able to function with no sleep at times.

Wait, you slept a total of four hours over seven days? I can function pretty well without sleep, but I couldn't hack that.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:57 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was one of two young associates doing trial briefing for a major trial in another city. In 7 days, I slept 4 hours (2 x 2 hour naps). It was so bad that I had to get a hotel for one of those naps, and had to get a hotel room the day the trial ended, as I was not safe to drive. You definitely have to be able to function with no sleep at times.

Wait, you slept a total of four hours over seven days? I can function pretty well without sleep, but I couldn't hack that.

Yep - the first nap was after I sent a word salad email (still a running joke with the trial team), and was told to go take a nap. Second one was after opposing counsel rested and we made oral JMOLS (of course, they needed to be fully briefed just in case). Got to pass out for the second couple of hours before starting on a motion we knew we'd have to file before a certain witness. It was... terrible, but almost enjoyable at the same time (like getting hazed or something). Or, I still have stockholm syndrome.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:14 pm

Would be great to more hear from T&E, Bankruptcy, or Tax lawyers. I hear that even in Big Law, those areas tend to have the best hours.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Would be great to more hear from T&E, Bankruptcy, or Tax lawyers. I hear that even in Big Law, those areas tend to have the best hours.

I have a friend that's biglaw Tax, and she works crazy hours (but, I don't know, necessarily, what that is a function of - she's not at my firm).

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 05, 2015 2:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Would be great to more hear from T&E, Bankruptcy, or Tax lawyers. I hear that even in Big Law, those areas tend to have the best hours.

I have a friend that's biglaw Tax, and she works crazy hours (but, I don't know, necessarily, what that is a function of - she's not at my firm).


I'm not at a big firm, but my practice is primarily bankruptcy (creditor's side, exclusively), and it depends on your definition of better hours. We have more fire drills than typical litigators. This is because bankruptcy moves faster than traditional litigation so you're pounding out objections, motions, responses etc. faster than you would in a typical civil suit. But, we (generally) don't have full blown trials and things of that nature that might demand multiple nights with minimal sleep.

IMO, from my own experience and from friends, litigators have the best "hours" insomuch as things run more on a schedule and you can space out your work more.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby ronnygage » Sat May 09, 2015 6:04 am

Hope questions are okay in this thread as well.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby KingsleyZissou » Tue May 12, 2015 1:48 am

Anyone with experience in securities litigation or litigation associated with financial services firms specifically?

I realize it may be the same as any other commercial/corporate litigation practice...

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Omerta » Wed May 13, 2015 10:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Would be great to more hear from T&E, Bankruptcy, or Tax lawyers. I hear that even in Big Law, those areas tend to have the best hours.

I have a friend that's biglaw Tax, and she works crazy hours (but, I don't know, necessarily, what that is a function of - she's not at my firm).


I'm not at a big firm, but my practice is primarily bankruptcy (creditor's side, exclusively), and it depends on your definition of better hours. We have more fire drills than typical litigators. This is because bankruptcy moves faster than traditional litigation so you're pounding out objections, motions, responses etc. faster than you would in a typical civil suit. But, we (generally) don't have full blown trials and things of that nature that might demand multiple nights with minimal sleep.

IMO, from my own experience and from friends, litigators have the best "hours" insomuch as things run more on a schedule and you can space out your work more.


I have no where someone got the idea that bankruptcy attorneys have the best hours. IMO, it tends to be one of the worse areas (along with M&A) because you can have huge, giant emergencies appear out of nowhere and deadlines that need to be done ASAP. At least in my experience, general business litigators can get an extra week or two on a deadline just by filing a motion like 98% of the time. Bankruptcy deadlines tend to be much more compact and much less amenable to change because the longer your client stays in bankruptcy, the worse off it is. The vast majority of litigation isn't nearly as time sensitive.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby GT2016JN » Wed May 13, 2015 11:35 am

Anyone working in mid-law Government Affairs (state and local) practice group?

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby zot1 » Wed May 13, 2015 7:17 pm

Any BigFed, non-lit attorneys willing to share?

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Thu May 14, 2015 7:41 am

Omerta wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Would be great to more hear from T&E, Bankruptcy, or Tax lawyers. I hear that even in Big Law, those areas tend to have the best hours.

I have a friend that's biglaw Tax, and she works crazy hours (but, I don't know, necessarily, what that is a function of - she's not at my firm).


I'm not at a big firm, but my practice is primarily bankruptcy (creditor's side, exclusively), and it depends on your definition of better hours. We have more fire drills than typical litigators. This is because bankruptcy moves faster than traditional litigation so you're pounding out objections, motions, responses etc. faster than you would in a typical civil suit. But, we (generally) don't have full blown trials and things of that nature that might demand multiple nights with minimal sleep.

IMO, from my own experience and from friends, litigators have the best "hours" insomuch as things run more on a schedule and you can space out your work more.


I have no where someone got the idea that bankruptcy attorneys have the best hours. IMO, it tends to be one of the worse areas (along with M&A) because you can have huge, giant emergencies appear out of nowhere and deadlines that need to be done ASAP. At least in my experience, general business litigators can get an extra week or two on a deadline just by filing a motion like 98% of the time. Bankruptcy deadlines tend to be much more compact and much less amenable to change because the longer your client stays in bankruptcy, the worse off it is. The vast majority of litigation isn't nearly as time sensitive.

No kidding. I used to be a commercial litigator who would get brought in on adverse proceedings in bankruptcy cases, and the bankruptcy partners would be like "soooo they filed their opposition brief late last night! So could you draft a reply?" "Sure, when do you need it by?" "Today." "Oh. When are we filing it?" "Today." "Oooookay."

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 14, 2015 7:09 pm

Small Boutique Tax & Estate Planning Associate in a smallish market
We do exclusively high end Planning, Asset Protection and Controversy for my city's high-net worth clients (we have most of the accounts on lock)

Personally I believe this to be the best firm in my town by a large margin. Our client book is impressive I live in a very poor ~1million metro in the western U.S. with a large Hispanic population yet these guys cornered the entire market. I clerked with them 0L 1L and came back 4 years later after leaving a larger market.

6:00a-Wake up, make coffee and watch the news, (check email on Phone)
7:00a-Shower, get dressed
7:30a-Leave for work
8:00a-Send all previously drafted emails. Start work, check with partners on matters
9:00a-10:30a-Close my door and work on as much as I can as I'm more productive in the AM
1030a-11a-Walk to get some lunch, eat there while simultaneously doing some sort of task on my phone (bill them hours amirite?)
11-330p-Follow up to all morning work, meet with Partners again
3:30p-4:00p-Get some coffee downstairs, mingle with the secretaries
4:00p-6:30p-Finish up tasks, enter time
7:00p-Arrive home (usually around the same time as my spouse) watch some mindless TV, Order Pizza or something for Dinner
9:30p-(Once wife has fallen asleep), get on my Laptop and draft some correspondence (I never send emails after hours, Clients will assume you're available)
11:00p-Watch some TV, surf the web
12:30a-Go to bed

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby peter2009 » Sun May 17, 2015 6:38 pm

Other25BeforeYou wrote:
Omerta wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Would be great to more hear from T&E, Bankruptcy, or Tax lawyers. I hear that even in Big Law, those areas tend to have the best hours.

I have a friend that's biglaw Tax, and she works crazy hours (but, I don't know, necessarily, what that is a function of - she's not at my firm).


I'm not at a big firm, but my practice is primarily bankruptcy (creditor's side, exclusively), and it depends on your definition of better hours. We have more fire drills than typical litigators. This is because bankruptcy moves faster than traditional litigation so you're pounding out objections, motions, responses etc. faster than you would in a typical civil suit. But, we (generally) don't have full blown trials and things of that nature that might demand multiple nights with minimal sleep.

IMO, from my own experience and from friends, litigators have the best "hours" insomuch as things run more on a schedule and you can space out your work more.


I have no where someone got the idea that bankruptcy attorneys have the best hours. IMO, it tends to be one of the worse areas (along with M&A) because you can have huge, giant emergencies appear out of nowhere and deadlines that need to be done ASAP. At least in my experience, general business litigators can get an extra week or two on a deadline just by filing a motion like 98% of the time. Bankruptcy deadlines tend to be much more compact and much less amenable to change because the longer your client stays in bankruptcy, the worse off it is. The vast majority of litigation isn't nearly as time sensitive.

No kidding. I used to be a commercial litigator who would get brought in on adverse proceedings in bankruptcy cases, and the bankruptcy partners would be like "soooo they filed their opposition brief late last night! So could you draft a reply?" "Sure, when do you need it by?" "Today." "Oh. When are we filing it?" "Today." "Oooookay."


Not all of bankruptcy/restructuring is litigation-based. A lot is transactional.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby UpandDown97 » Mon May 18, 2015 11:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Small Boutique Tax & Estate Planning Associate in a smallish market
We do exclusively high end Planning, Asset Protection and Controversy for my city's high-net worth clients (we have most of the accounts on lock)

Personally I believe this to be the best firm in my town by a large margin. Our client book is impressive I live in a very poor ~1million metro in the western U.S. with a large Hispanic population yet these guys cornered the entire market. I clerked with them 0L 1L and came back 4 years later after leaving a larger market.

6:00a-Wake up, make coffee and watch the news, (check email on Phone)
7:00a-Shower, get dressed
7:30a-Leave for work
8:00a-Send all previously drafted emails. Start work, check with partners on matters
9:00a-10:30a-Close my door and work on as much as I can as I'm more productive in the AM
1030a-11a-Walk to get some lunch, eat there while simultaneously doing some sort of task on my phone (bill them hours amirite?)
11-330p-Follow up to all morning work, meet with Partners again
3:30p-4:00p-Get some coffee downstairs, mingle with the secretaries
4:00p-6:30p-Finish up tasks, enter time
7:00p-Arrive home (usually around the same time as my spouse) watch some mindless TV, Order Pizza or something for Dinner
9:30p-(Once wife has fallen asleep), get on my Laptop and draft some correspondence (I never send emails after hours, Clients will assume you're available)
11:00p-Watch some TV, surf the web
12:30a-Go to bed


This doesn't seem so bad. could probably sleep more if you wanted. Is this typical of the area of law you are in?

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 19, 2015 11:42 am

UpandDown97 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Small Boutique Tax & Estate Planning Associate in a smallish market
We do exclusively high end Planning, Asset Protection and Controversy for my city's high-net worth clients (we have most of the accounts on lock)

Personally I believe this to be the best firm in my town by a large margin. Our client book is impressive I live in a very poor ~1million metro in the western U.S. with a large Hispanic population yet these guys cornered the entire market. I clerked with them 0L 1L and came back 4 years later after leaving a larger market.

6:00a-Wake up, make coffee and watch the news, (check email on Phone)
7:00a-Shower, get dressed
7:30a-Leave for work
8:00a-Send all previously drafted emails. Start work, check with partners on matters
9:00a-10:30a-Close my door and work on as much as I can as I'm more productive in the AM
1030a-11a-Walk to get some lunch, eat there while simultaneously doing some sort of task on my phone (bill them hours amirite?)
11-330p-Follow up to all morning work, meet with Partners again
3:30p-4:00p-Get some coffee downstairs, mingle with the secretaries
4:00p-6:30p-Finish up tasks, enter time
7:00p-Arrive home (usually around the same time as my spouse) watch some mindless TV, Order Pizza or something for Dinner
9:30p-(Once wife has fallen asleep), get on my Laptop and draft some correspondence (I never send emails after hours, Clients will assume you're available)
11:00p-Watch some TV, surf the web
12:30a-Go to bed


This doesn't seem so bad. could probably sleep more if you wanted. Is this typical of the area of law you are in?


It's great I couldn't be happier. I have thoroughly enjoyed LS and Employment so I'm very lucky.

That said, this is definitely atypical. Most Tax Lawyers in my town would kill for this position but the group I work for is very leery of the unknown and asked me to come back (as I am a proven commodity). I am paid hourly so the incentive is to find ways to bill work hence the erratic timing of everything, the partner I am able to pull the most from works from 4am-8pm and sometimes well into the night with .5hr break everyday, some weeks he bills 70-80/hrs and he's well into his late 60s. I have to be on my phone a lot because I get random text messages or emails at strange hours.

Sometimes I'll be doing work at 1am on a Sunday for instance. From my fellow Tax Lawyer friends in larger practices their firms are a lot more regimented.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby NickiDrea » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:54 pm

I am a public defender in Philadelphia. I'll post two different days, one from my days as a new attorney, one as a senior attorney.

New Attorney:

6:00 am- Wake up
8:00 am- Get to court, figure out which cases are ready, talk to bail clients
9:00 am - 1 pm: Court
1:15 p.m.: Return to office, attempt to grab lunch
2:00 pm: Return work from court (calling clients, marking files, motions, etc)
6:00-7:00 pm: Go home
9 pm: Prep files for next court day
1-2 am: Sleep

(Next day, substitute court for prison, but generally the same schedule. Spend 5-6 hours in office on Saturday and often Sunday too)

Senior Attorney (7 years in)

7:30 am-ish: Wake up
9:30 a.m..: Get to court, talk to clients, convey offers, etc
10:15-10:30: Court starts
1-2 pm: Return to office
2-5 pm: Prep for next court lists

And why not- One Day-Jury Trial Schedule:

Day One

8:30 am- Arrive at court
9:30 am - 1 pm- Jury selection
Recess

Day Two

9:30 am: Opening
10:30 am: Testimony
3:00 pm: Rest
???: Verdict

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby The Dark Shepard » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:09 am

NickiDrea wrote:I am a public defender in Philadelphia. I'll post two different days, one from my days as a new attorney, one as a senior attorney.

New Attorney:

6:00 am- Wake up
8:00 am- Get to court, figure out which cases are ready, talk to bail clients
9:00 am - 1 pm: Court
1:15 p.m.: Return to office, attempt to grab lunch
2:00 pm: Return work from court (calling clients, marking files, motions, etc)
6:00-7:00 pm: Go home
9 pm: Prep files for next court day
1-2 am: Sleep

(Next day, substitute court for prison, but generally the same schedule. Spend 5-6 hours in office on Saturday and often Sunday too)

Senior Attorney (7 years in)

7:30 am-ish: Wake up
9:30 a.m..: Get to court, talk to clients, convey offers, etc
10:15-10:30: Court starts
1-2 pm: Return to office
2-5 pm: Prep for next court lists

And why not- One Day-Jury Trial Schedule:

Day One

8:30 am- Arrive at court
9:30 am - 1 pm- Jury selection
Recess

Day Two

9:30 am: Opening
10:30 am: Testimony
3:00 pm: Rest
???: Verdict


Did your hours go down due to seniority or due to being experienced enough to not need as much time?

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby minnbills » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:22 am

Could some of you bankruptcy lawyers (or people with firsthand knowledge of bankruptcy) PM me? Going into a bankruptcy clerkship and have some questions about what practice is like. Would really appreciate it.

UpandDown97

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby UpandDown97 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:16 pm

minnbills wrote:Could some of you bankruptcy lawyers (or people with firsthand knowledge of bankruptcy) PM me? Going into a bankruptcy clerkship and have some questions about what practice is like. Would really appreciate it.


Or post on here. Would love more info!

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BiglawAssociate

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby BiglawAssociate » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:56 pm

Get in around 10.
Surf the webs.
Bitch/whine/complain to coworkers/work.
Do some more complaining to coworkers/friends.
Work.
Work.
Bitch/whine/complain.
Talk to partners about dream jobs (not law).
Bitch/whine complain/work.
Go home wondering why the fuck I went to law school.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby lawstudentap23 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:29 pm

FamilyLawEsq wrote:Regardless of the the size of the law firm, there are certain truths about private practice:

It is not an 8AM to 5 PM job, never was and never will be.
You will work evenings, at home or the office, and sometimes on weekends.
You will never be "caught up" with your work.
Sitting down to dinner with your spouse and kids at a set time is rare.
You will miss some of your kids' activities/sporting events.
You will have many sleepless nights thinking about the work.
You can never truly relax on vacation.
Knowing how to golf is an advantage especially if you are female.
Shitty cases and blame flow south.
Accolades and money flow north.
Clients' expectations exceed your ability to get the work done.
You will have a love/hate relationship with your staff.


Too true, from what I have seen so far. I wish I had known this before accepting a SA position at a private firm. I intentionally turned down a few biglaw offers, and opted instead for a regional mid-size firm which promised of a work-life balance. Quickly learned that it is non-existent. I suppose it isn't too late to change gears...

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LA Spring

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby LA Spring » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:08 pm

lawstudentap23 wrote:
Too true, from what I have seen so far. I wish I had known this before accepting a SA position at a private firm. I intentionally turned down a few biglaw offers, and opted instead for a regional mid-size firm which promised of a work-life balance. Quickly learned that it is non-existent. I suppose it isn't too late to change gears...

Switching gears (ala lateraling up) is usually not available to first years…it’s possible but highly doubtful.

Anonymous User wrote:9:30p-(Once wife has fallen asleep), get on my Laptop and draft some correspondence (I never send emails after hours, Clients will assume you're available)

Tip: When I write an email at night I use the “delay email” option to have it automatically sent…usually around 7:45A.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby 84651846190 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:43 pm

juzam_djinn wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
juzam_djinn wrote:
BrazilBandit wrote:I'm pretty sure he meant novelty as in "different, unusual", not "irrelevant, stupid"...


this. anon, that was a pretty embarrassing response


I understand he meant "different", and that is the whole point. The gist of his post was "your work is different than most lawyers. once that wears off I bet your job sucks like any other lawyers." That is what is problematic about the comment. I assume you realize that basically what he is saying is whether legal work is "different" or "unusual" likely has no bearing on how much a lawyer enjoys their job?

My comment about due diligence was to highlight that that is how people view "normal" legal work and so that is what they might as well aspire to, because anything "different" will suck just as much. I think thats a really sad comment, but not too suprising.


I get that the legal profession is filled w/ disillusionment so it's easy to interpret the question that way.

But then again, the poster asked if it sucked like any other 11-hour a day job.


Sorry to bump such an old post, but your job has to be pretty fucking entertaining for it to be tolerable for 11 hours every single day. Legal work just isn't that exciting.



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