Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

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Nachoo2019
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Nachoo2019 » Sun May 01, 2016 12:21 am

wtf. im sorry. I did it again. I am the idiot poster above haha

pianoman4
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby pianoman4 » Sun May 01, 2016 12:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:First year Commercial Real Estate/Corporate Law, Boutique Firm, Major U.S. Market. No billable requirement.


7:00 AM - wake up, breakfast, get ready
8:15 AM - leave house
8:45-9:15AM - arrive at work
9:15-11:00AM - answer e-mails from the night before, review what deals will be closing soon and what still needs to be done in the way of due diligence, etc.
11AM-12:00PM - reviewing loan documents/drafting and amending various organizational documents for entities in preparation for acquisition or financing (usually our clients operate through LLCs, so, operating agreements, articles of organization, etc.)
12PM - 1PM - Lunch - usually at my desk while surfing the web, sometimes I go out. I try to take a little bit of time during the day to step away.
1PM - 5PM - conference calls/status calls with lenders and clients on various deals, as well as other client work such as drafting/reviewing commercial leases or purchase and sale agreements.
5:30-6:00PM - finish up for the day, send final e-mails, head out.

If a big deal is closing I'll be in the office later than above, but typically I'm out by 5:30 /6:30


Could you PM me with more details? Definitely something I'm interested in.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 01, 2016 2:26 pm

pianoman4 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First year Commercial Real Estate/Corporate Law, Boutique Firm, Major U.S. Market. No billable requirement.


7:00 AM - wake up, breakfast, get ready
8:15 AM - leave house
8:45-9:15AM - arrive at work
9:15-11:00AM - answer e-mails from the night before, review what deals will be closing soon and what still needs to be done in the way of due diligence, etc.
11AM-12:00PM - reviewing loan documents/drafting and amending various organizational documents for entities in preparation for acquisition or financing (usually our clients operate through LLCs, so, operating agreements, articles of organization, etc.)
12PM - 1PM - Lunch - usually at my desk while surfing the web, sometimes I go out. I try to take a little bit of time during the day to step away.
1PM - 5PM - conference calls/status calls with lenders and clients on various deals, as well as other client work such as drafting/reviewing commercial leases or purchase and sale agreements.
5:30-6:00PM - finish up for the day, send final e-mails, head out.

If a big deal is closing I'll be in the office later than above, but typically I'm out by 5:30 /6:30


Could you PM me with more details? Definitely something I'm interested in.


Could you please PM me as well? Thanks!

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun May 01, 2016 2:33 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:You can't be PMed if you're anonymous.

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sigil
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby sigil » Sun May 01, 2016 3:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
pianoman4 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:First year Commercial Real Estate/Corporate Law, Boutique Firm, Major U.S. Market. No billable requirement.


7:00 AM - wake up, breakfast, get ready
8:15 AM - leave house
8:45-9:15AM - arrive at work
9:15-11:00AM - answer e-mails from the night before, review what deals will be closing soon and what still needs to be done in the way of due diligence, etc.
11AM-12:00PM - reviewing loan documents/drafting and amending various organizational documents for entities in preparation for acquisition or financing (usually our clients operate through LLCs, so, operating agreements, articles of organization, etc.)
12PM - 1PM - Lunch - usually at my desk while surfing the web, sometimes I go out. I try to take a little bit of time during the day to step away.
1PM - 5PM - conference calls/status calls with lenders and clients on various deals, as well as other client work such as drafting/reviewing commercial leases or purchase and sale agreements.
5:30-6:00PM - finish up for the day, send final e-mails, head out.

If a big deal is closing I'll be in the office later than above, but typically I'm out by 5:30 /6:30


Could you PM me with more details? Definitely something I'm interested in.


Could you please PM me as well? Thanks!


Oops. Accidentally posted anonymously above. ^ PM would be much appreciated.

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kellyfrost
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby kellyfrost » Sun May 01, 2016 4:06 pm

Can we get an NFL Agent to do the "Lawyers: What's your typical day?"

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rpupkin
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby rpupkin » Sun May 01, 2016 6:28 pm

One general word of caution about the value of the posts ITT: I'm noticing that a lot the posters are first-year associates who have been working at their firms for a few months. In my first few months at my firm, my life was relatively chill: I went home at 6 almost every day and my weekends were free. By midway through my second year, that was no longer the case. It takes awhile to integrate associates into the flow of a firm and give them actual responsibility for stuff.

I don't think there's anything wrong with first-years sharing their schedules. But folks should try to keep things in perspective.

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kalvano
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby kalvano » Sun May 01, 2016 7:49 pm

rpupkin wrote:One general word of caution about the value of the posts ITT: I'm noticing that a lot the posters are first-year associates who have been working at their firms for a few months. In my first few months at my firm, my life was relatively chill: I went home at 6 almost every day and my weekends were free. By midway through my second year, that was no longer the case. It takes awhile to integrate associates into the flow of a firm and give them actual responsibility for stuff.

I don't think there's anything wrong with first-years sharing their schedules. But folks should try to keep things in perspective.


My hours have skyrocketed the longer I remain at my firm. I suppose its good because they think I don't suck, and bigger bonus, but its far more stressful.
Last edited by kalvano on Sun May 01, 2016 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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El Pollito
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby El Pollito » Sun May 01, 2016 8:37 pm

kalvano wrote:
rpupkin wrote:One general word of caution about the value of the posts ITT: I'm noticing that a lot the posters are first-year associates who have been working at their firms for a few months. In my first few months at my firm, my life was relatively chill: I went home at 6 almost every day and my weekends were free. By midway through my second year, that was no longer the case. It takes awhile to integrate associates into the flow of a firm and give them actual responsibility for stuff.

I don't think there's anything wrong with first-years sharing their schedules. But folks should try to keep things in perspective.


My hours have skyrocketed the longer I remain at my firm. I suppose its good because they thing I don't suck, and bigger bonus, but its far more stressful.

yeah people trusting you is a double edged sword

happy sunday from my office

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kellyfrost
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby kellyfrost » Mon May 02, 2016 12:08 am

El Pollito wrote:
kalvano wrote:
rpupkin wrote:One general word of caution about the value of the posts ITT: I'm noticing that a lot the posters are first-year associates who have been working at their firms for a few months. In my first few months at my firm, my life was relatively chill: I went home at 6 almost every day and my weekends were free. By midway through my second year, that was no longer the case. It takes awhile to integrate associates into the flow of a firm and give them actual responsibility for stuff.

I don't think there's anything wrong with first-years sharing their schedules. But folks should try to keep things in perspective.


My hours have skyrocketed the longer I remain at my firm. I suppose its good because they thing I don't suck, and bigger bonus, but its far more stressful.

yeah people trusting you is a double edged sword

happy sunday from my office


Looks like you just killed another thread.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Danger Zone » Mon May 02, 2016 12:23 am

Is this the latest member of the chicken fan club?

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JenDarby
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby JenDarby » Mon May 02, 2016 11:29 am

3-years in-house (beginning 2L summer and part time during 3L) at investment bank doing capital markets, structured products, some project finance and another miscellaneous work:

9am: arrive
9-9:30: get coffee, follow-up on emails, chat
10-11:30am: review/negotiate quick docs (NDAs, engagement letters, support letters, vendor agreements, credit facility amendments, etc.)
11-30-12:30pm: conference call with client's counsel regarding outstanding issues on an ISDA and CSA
12:30-1:30pm: eat lunch at desk and catch up on emails and comments that have come back regarding small/quick tasks
1:30-3pm: receive requests from FO regarding impending trades for fixed income and equities notes and begin preparing pricing supplements, disclosures, etc. set aside to wait for market close and trade finalization to determine if it will be at least T+3 and then I can address the next afternoon
3-4:30pm: review outstanding ISDAs, CDEAs, CSAs, MRAs, MSLAs, etc based on prioritization
4:30-5:30pm: wrap up any small projects that I have received comments back on and go home

Thoughout the day I would also have regulatory/industry calls, meetings with FO regarding commercial points on negotiations, etc. but overall days were fairly routine.

1-month in at a hedge fund with ~10B AUM:

8-9am: arrive to office, get coffee, run daily compliance checks on portfolios and holdings and check all trading activity from the prior day to make sure the executed trades align with those signed off on by PMs
9-10:30am: respond to monthly and quarterly requests from custodians, wrap sponsors, investment managers regarding holdings and other account and portfolio details
10:30-12pm: review miscellaneous projects like lease agreements, vendor agreements, NDAs
12-12:30pm: lunch away from desk
12:30pm-2:30pm: complete RFPs for potential and present clients
2:30-4:30pm: review and negotiate investment advisory agreements and other similar documentation
4:30-6pm: revisit earlier tasks and wrap up for the day

I'm obviously still settling in at the new job and familiarizing myself with our business and day to day work. My job will generally consist of a mixture of legal, compliance and operations work.

I try to keep it a little discreet in the on-topics, so please don't quote in its entirety, but feel free to ask any questions.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 02, 2016 8:24 pm

JenDarby wrote:3-years in-house



Question for you. I am interested in moving into a fund one day - but I have heard most don't really need an in-house legal presence.

1) I am general corporate, is there any work I could do that would better prepare me?

2) What kind of legal work is there for a fund?

3) Does a fund have to be a certain size (AUM) to justify in-house legal?

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JenDarby
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby JenDarby » Tue May 03, 2016 1:51 pm

The handful of lawyers I know at my fund and other funds all came from general corporate or capital markets backgrounds, with a few of them being in house at a larger financial institution prior to moving to the fund (these people were in different investments practices prior to being in-house).

It is true that there is not a huge need for an in-house legal presence beyond a GC and maybe a couple more attorneys. From a regulatory and securities law standpoint, a strong compliance presence is a lot more important.

Im not sure how it is at other funds, but here the most important thing when they interviewed seemed to be general fit over specific background. They really emphasized that I wouldn't just be doing legal work and that a lot of it would be compliance oriented, recognizing a lot of attorneys might not want such a role. A large portion of our discreet legal work is of the general corporate in-house nature (contracts, vendor agreements, etc). Depending on the funds strategies you might do an array of other corporate work (i.e. ISDAs and CSAs if you hedge, CDEAs if you're clearing any transactions, MSLAs and MRAs if the fund engages in securities lending). Beyond basic corporate work, it's going to be very fund specific.

There isn't really a threshold AUM to justify in-house legal. At this point our AUM could triple or be cut in half and our general staffing wouldn't change much. At some point it just becomes an internal risk calculation. A lot of funds rely very heavily on outside firms for compliance and legal needs, with operations and client services staff filling in the gaps. At a minimum, they want to be sure you can check all required legal and compliance boxes for regulatory filings, exams and quarterly and annual client reports/questionnaires, and optically it doesn't hurt to have a couple JDs.

brightstep
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby brightstep » Tue May 03, 2016 4:07 pm

JenDarby wrote:The handful of lawyers I know at my fund and other funds all came from general corporate or capital markets backgrounds, with a few of them being in house at a larger financial institution prior to moving to the fund (these people were in different investments practices prior to being in-house).


Thanks for such an informative post. Could I ask what prompted you to move from the sell-side to the buy-side? Is buy-side generally considered more "fun" or interesting? How did you find your job? I'm at a firm now in an investment management practice and considering moving in-house, and don't know which route to take. Would you mind ballparking your compensation at the fund and/or the bank?

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JenDarby
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby JenDarby » Wed May 04, 2016 11:27 am

brightstep wrote:
JenDarby wrote:The handful of lawyers I know at my fund and other funds all came from general corporate or capital markets backgrounds, with a few of them being in house at a larger financial institution prior to moving to the fund (these people were in different investments practices prior to being in-house).


Thanks for such an informative post. Could I ask what prompted you to move from the sell-side to the buy-side? Is buy-side generally considered more "fun" or interesting? How did you find your job? I'm at a firm now in an investment management practice and considering moving in-house, and don't know which route to take. Would you mind ballparking your compensation at the fund and/or the bank?

My move was the direct result of a personal need to relocate. I genuinely enjoyed my job at the bank, and had my personal situation been different then I would likely have stayed there "forever." I don't get the sense that it's very common to move in-house from one side to the other. Most my coworkers that have made in-house moves have gone from bank to bank or fund to fund. I couldn't say for certain, but I don't think most of these people actively chose one side over the other, rather they wanted to leave their biglaw jobs and took the first good in-house offer they received. I think your role will generally be more narrow/targeted on the sell-side and more generalized on the buy-side. I haven't been at the fund long enough to have a real preference yet.

At the investment bank nearly every new hire was around a 4th to 6th year at a biglaw firm. Compensation was around 200-250k all-in, depending on the specific role (desk budget and profitability and a variety of other hard to predict factors contributed). There was also excellent 401k matching, yearly 401k bonuses, awesome dental and health care nearly entirely firm covered, 4-5 weeks vacation, 4 personal days, 11 holidays (you were expected and pushed to take all of this off). This particular bank was somewhat under market compared to other banks, but hours were generally better.

Compensation at my fund is largely bonus driven, with equity options in 1-2 years. The potential upside is definitely better than at the bank, where incomes and bonuses were pretty static regardless of tenure. That being said, I should make around what I made at the bank, but hopefully more.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Desert Fox » Wed May 04, 2016 11:32 am

I've heard that in house lawyers get stuck at the level of experience they lateraled with. Do you find that to be true? Will you eventually do the same work as the 6th year laterals?

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 05, 2016 4:08 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I've heard that in house lawyers get stuck at the level of experience they lateraled with. Do you find that to be true? Will you eventually do the same work as the 6th year laterals?


Outside of the Fortune 500 companies, it is pretty common to lateral into either the General Counsel position or lateral in and move upward to the General Counsel position. I don't know of many in that category that get "stuck."

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JenDarby
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby JenDarby » Thu May 05, 2016 4:36 pm

Both the bank and fund I've worked at have very flat structures. People dont really come in at a certain level but rather to fill a role. For instance, if you came in to work with the DCM desk you would be expected to be able to cover everything, there wouldn't be any part of a deal that would be above or below you. That's not to say people who had been around longer wouldn't help and share institutional knowledge, but there wasn't really anywhere to go up or down. The current GC and deputy GC did start as counsel, and if the GC left the deputy GC would have first shot at the role (doubtful he would take it since he wouldn't want to give up transactional time for more departmental admin). But other than those two positions there wasn't really anywhere to go, unless you left. A while back we had an attorney leave to be GC at a corporate (around 60B in revenue). Where I'm at now, if the GC retired they would 100% look to promote from within, but outside that scenario it's very flat.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 10, 2016 11:13 am

(Posting anonymously because, while my office is aware that I'm on here, they don't know my alias and I'd prefer things stay that way.)

I'm a staff attorney at a small NYC special-education not-for-profit law firm. We have about 15 lawyers total (of which 1/3 are part-time retired volunteers) and provide direct services to low-income families in the five boroughs. Our practice is heavily focused on administrative hearings, with a few appeals per year, some of which end up in federal court.

As is the case with many direct-services organizations, there's no "typical day," and much of what we do is not strictly "lawyering." Building a case involves navigating bureaucracies, speaking with teachers and psychologists, and putting out brush fires left and right. Days are much longer and busier when a hearing approaches, especially if the case is particularly complex.

7:30 a.m.: Wake up, eat breakfast, read news on the internet.
8:00 a.m.: Get on the subway.
8:45 a.m.: Arrive at the office. Make coffee, check emails and phone messages.
9:20 a.m.: Appropriately caffeinated, return emails and phone calls.
10:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m.: Call parents and schools. Do research on a minor legal issue that arose in a case. Prepare questions for a new-client intake meeting.
12:00 p.m. - 1:00 p.m.: Eat lunch at desk while reading through school records in a new case.
1:00 p.m. - 3:30 p.m.: Meet with witness who is planning to testify at upcoming hearing. Go through testimony.
3:30 p.m. - 4:30 p.m.: Pre-hearing telephone conference with Impartial Hearing Officer and adversary, 30 minutes of which is picking hearing dates while off the record.
4:30 p.m. - 6:00 p.m.: Receive frantic call from client about child being suspended from school and sent to hospital via EMS for acting out. Coordinate with psychologist/hospital/parent to try to avoid an ACS call.
6:00 p.m. - 6:30 p.m.: Head home.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 10, 2016 12:05 pm

New associate - passed July 2015 bar. A few months in. Creditor's outside counsel on foreclosures, evictions, and bankruptcy in the south.

7:00 AM to 7:30, get up get ready
8:15, leave apt
8:45 - 9:00, get to the office
9:30, get Starbucks.

From here on, I choose how to tackle my tasks for the day which are:

- Reviewing and signing letters that we send to debtors, making sure we are not violating the FDCPA.
This involves reviewing loan documents, (notes and mortgages) bankruptcy filings (chapter 7 and 13), PACER searches, and probate documents including but not limited to wills and trusts.

- Reviewing and signing demand letters, making sure they don't violate the state property code.
This requires a literal drafting, which is clearly cut by statute and case-law, but can be very very easy to mess up, even with a standard letter.

- Reviewing and signing eviction petitions
This requires referencing the property code, reviewing deeds, loan documents, and again bankruptcy filings.

- Reviewing and signing letters for HUD, making sure we are not violating any federal regulations.

12:00 - 1, lunch.

1-2:00 - Evictions hearings in local, county, or district courts.
I've already been before a Judge twice. Basically proving up the eviction if it is contested. Proving to the judge that a legal foreclosure took place, and that our client has right to possession of the property.

2:00 -5:00
- Training and correcting my paralegals. (never-ending) (NOTE: a bad paralegal WILL GET YOU SUED)
- legal research on pending issues and writing memos to other staff attorneys. Lexis Advance.
- returning call-backs from debtor's counsel or debtors themselves.

I usually leave between 6 and 6:30, just to clean out any pending stuff and avoid rush hour.

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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 10, 2016 12:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:(Posting anonymously because, while my office is aware that I'm on here, they don't know my alias and I'd prefer things stay that way.)

I'm a staff attorney at a small NYC special-education not-for-profit law firm. We have about 15 lawyers total (of which 1/3 are part-time retired volunteers) and provide direct services to low-income families in the five boroughs. Our practice is heavily focused on administrative hearings, with a few appeals per year, some of which end up in federal court.

As is the case with many direct-services organizations, there's no "typical day," and much of what we do is not strictly "lawyering." Building a case involves navigating bureaucracies, speaking with teachers and psychologists, and putting out brush fires left and right. Days are much longer and busier when a hearing approaches, especially if the case is particularly complex.

7:30 a.m.: Wake up, eat breakfast, read news on the internet.
8:00 a.m.: Get on the subway.
8:45 a.m.: Arrive at the office. Make coffee, check emails and phone messages.
9:20 a.m.: Appropriately caffeinated, return emails and phone calls.
10:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m.: Call parents and schools. Do research on a minor legal issue that arose in a case. Prepare questions for a new-client intake meeting.
12:00 p.m. - 1:00 p.m.: Eat lunch at desk while reading through school records in a new case.
1:00 p.m. - 3:30 p.m.: Meet with witness who is planning to testify at upcoming hearing. Go through testimony.
3:30 p.m. - 4:30 p.m.: Pre-hearing telephone conference with Impartial Hearing Officer and adversary, 30 minutes of which is picking hearing dates while off the record.
4:30 p.m. - 6:00 p.m.: Receive frantic call from client about child being suspended from school and sent to hospital via EMS for acting out. Coordinate with psychologist/hospital/parent to try to avoid an ACS call.
6:00 p.m. - 6:30 p.m.: Head home.


Thanks for posting this. I worked with special ed kids in various capacities before law school and something like this interests me. Actually, I initially went to law school to get into this type of work--I'm headed to biglaw but eventually I would like to transition to your kind of work. Do you mind me asking what kind of salary I could expect in that kind of position? If you could provide a range I would really appreciate it!

you_were_driving
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby you_were_driving » Tue May 10, 2016 2:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:New associate - passed July 2015 bar. A few months in. Creditor's outside counsel on foreclosures, evictions, and bankruptcy in the south.

2:00 -5:00
- Training and correcting my paralegals. (never-ending) (NOTE: a bad paralegal WILL GET YOU SUED)


paralegals can be terrible, but, this seems suspect.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 10, 2016 4:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for posting this. I worked with special ed kids in various capacities before law school and something like this interests me. Actually, I initially went to law school to get into this type of work--I'm headed to biglaw but eventually I would like to transition to your kind of work. Do you mind me asking what kind of salary I could expect in that kind of position? If you could provide a range I would really appreciate it!


Our pay is roughly tied to whatever Legal Aid is paying at the moment, so I think that new attorneys are starting in the high 50s. While I've never engaged in a particularly frank salary discussion with other members of my office, my gut feeling is that the people who've been around for a while (and/or the people who practiced elsewhere before coming here) make high 60s/low 70s, with administrators or super-senior folks making a bit more.

I do not know what the other big NYC not-for-profits in this area pay, although many of the marquee names do more than just special-education work.

There are oodles of private law firms in this area of law, in NYC and elsewhere, but I don't know what they pay. The special-education statues are fee-shifting, meaning that that the parent is entitled to attorneys' fees if the case is a winner. I imagine that many of the private firms have retainers that offset whatever the parent is paying by whatever is recovered during the fee application, and some firms may share fees with associates.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Lawyers: What's Your Typical Day?

Postby t-14orbust » Wed May 18, 2016 3:42 pm

JenDarby wrote:Both the bank and fund I've worked at have very flat structures. People dont really come in at a certain level but rather to fill a role. For instance, if you came in to work with the DCM desk you would be expected to be able to cover everything, there wouldn't be any part of a deal that would be above or below you. That's not to say people who had been around longer wouldn't help and share institutional knowledge, but there wasn't really anywhere to go up or down. The current GC and deputy GC did start as counsel, and if the GC left the deputy GC would have first shot at the role (doubtful he would take it since he wouldn't want to give up transactional time for more departmental admin). But other than those two positions there wasn't really anywhere to go, unless you left. A while back we had an attorney leave to be GC at a corporate (around 60B in revenue). Where I'm at now, if the GC retired they would 100% look to promote from within, but outside that scenario it's very flat.


Are jobs like this available in ca or is it mostly/only nyc? Thanks!




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