Trading-Up BigLaw Offers

[Law Student 2848]

I have heard that most BigLaw firms that hire 3Ls for entry level associate positions are mostly looking for candidates that have worked in BigLaw and are looking to "trade-up." How common is it for someone who had a SA in BigLaw and received an offer to still look to "trade-up" or look for an offer at a different firm?

[Law Sauce]

It is not common but not unheard of, especially if the SA was not particularly happy with his/her summer firm. I get a sense it is most commonly done by moving up in the same city, i.e. moving from v50 firm in NY to v10 firm in NY. To me, It does seem that NY people are the most likely to try to do this (but it does happen in other large markets).

[Law Sauce]

Also just saw this from the NALP report on 2013 summer employment:

"Meanwhile, only 16% of offices reported returning to the market to look for 3Ls who had not previously worked for them, a drop of three percentage points from the 19% measured in 2012, and still significantly off from the 53% rate measured in 2006." http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspective ... ec2013.pdf

[Anonymous User]

Also just saw this from the NALP report on 2013 summer employment:

"Meanwhile, only 16% of offices reported returning to the market to look for 3Ls who had not previously worked for them, a drop of three percentage points from the 19% measured in 2012, and still significantly off from the 53% rate measured in 2006." http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspective ... ec2013.pdf

This stat is kind of misleading in this context. Without a doubt, the vast, vast majority of firms don't look to hire "unknown" 3Ls. But, assuming you're thinking about doing the trade up, what most people would really care about is how many slots NY V5/V10/V20s have for such 3Ls, and it seems like almost all the 3L hiring is concentrated there. Looks like a lot of these hire 10+ 3Ls based on their NALP forms.

[OutCold]

I did it. I can confirm that at least half of the V20 was actively interviewing 3Ls, mostly in NY but some in DC as well. The bigger the class, the more likely they were to be hiring.

[Law Sauce]

Also just saw this from the NALP report on 2013 summer employment:

"Meanwhile, only 16% of offices reported returning to the market to look for 3Ls who had not previously worked for them, a drop of three percentage points from the 19% measured in 2012, and still significantly off from the 53% rate measured in 2006." http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Perspective ... ec2013.pdf

This stat is kind of misleading in this context. Without a doubt, the vast, vast majority of firms don't look to hire "unknown" 3Ls. But, assuming you're thinking about doing the trade up, what most people would really care about is how many slots NY V5/V10/V20s have for such 3Ls, and it seems like almost all the 3L hiring is concentrated there. Looks like a lot of these hire 10+ 3Ls based on their NALP forms.

Agreed.

[2014]

I think "Trade up" is likely the wrong way to put it. At least from reading anecdotes over several years, it doesn't sound like successful 3L applicants ever successfully sell themselves to the firm by the prestige upgrade (or some proxy for it like "oh I want to do bankruptcy and you guys take more cutting edge cases than my V100"). The motivation seems to usually be geographic, and the hires tend to be for specific practice needs the firm has.

[Anonymous User]

I traded up from a non-NY V-50 to a NY V-5. Firms with bigger classes seem more likely to have a few spots open up. I think the key is emphasizing substantive differences between your summer firm and the one you are interviewing with. (e.g. location, practice group, etc.) One thing to remember is that most of the elite firms view themselves as the best, so it isn't that hard to convince them that you want to be there. The key factor is going to be grades. If you took the second year off after getting a summer associate offer you are going to have a difficult time moving up.

[Anonymous User]

I traded up from a non-NY V-50 to a NY V-5. Firms with bigger classes seem more likely to have a few spots open up. I think the key is emphasizing substantive differences between your summer firm and the one you are interviewing with. (e.g. location, practice group, etc.) One thing to remember is that most of the elite firms view themselves as the best, so it isn't that hard to convince them that you want to be there. The key factor is going to be grades. If you took the second year off after getting a summer associate offer you are going to have a difficult time moving up.

Can you PM me?

[Yukos]

I traded up from a non-NY V-50 to a NY V-5. Firms with bigger classes seem more likely to have a few spots open up. I think the key is emphasizing substantive differences between your summer firm and the one you are interviewing with. (e.g. location, practice group, etc.) One thing to remember is that most of the elite firms view themselves as the best, so it isn't that hard to convince them that you want to be there. The key factor is going to be grades. If you took the second year off after getting a summer associate offer you are going to have a difficult time moving up.

Can you PM me?

I'm not that anonymous user but you have to post under your real handle to be able to be PM'd.

[goldeneye]

I traded up from a non-NY V-50 to a NY V-5. Firms with bigger classes seem more likely to have a few spots open up. I think the key is emphasizing substantive differences between your summer firm and the one you are interviewing with. (e.g. location, practice group, etc.) One thing to remember is that most of the elite firms view themselves as the best, so it isn't that hard to convince them that you want to be there. The key factor is going to be grades. If you took the second year off after getting a summer associate offer you are going to have a difficult time moving up.

If you're willing, I had a question in general. can you pm me?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any information on how transfers fair when trying to trade up? I landed a SA gig, but not in my desired market and was hoping to get into NYC. My grades put me somewhere in the top 25-33% at a t-14, so I was going to try to sell that to trade up next fall.