Phone call regarding 2L grades

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Anonymous User
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Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:54 pm

2L here at a T14. Last week, a hiring partner at the V100 firm (not Gibson Dunn) that I will be SAing at next summer called me to tell me that my fall semester grades were not up to par and that I needed to do better. Obviously that's what I plan on doing, but I was just wondering: Has anyone else ever received such a phone call? Does this mean I'm on the prospective no-offer list? How much should I make of this?

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stillwater
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby stillwater » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:57 pm

What were your grades like?

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brotherdarkness
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby brotherdarkness » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:58 pm

.
Last edited by brotherdarkness on Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

daleearnhardt123
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby daleearnhardt123 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:02 pm

also very interested to hear more. Did they request you send in your grades when you got them? I'm guessing you didn't do this preemptively but I feel like I don't hear about firms asking 2Ls to send in grades mid-year.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:03 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:Well, this is new. I've never heard of anything like this happening. I'm genuinely curious as to what your grades were like this past semester and how much of a drop that was from where you were after 1L.


OP here. Yes, this really caught me off-guard. I've been reading this forum for ages and I have never heard of such a thing.

My 1L GPA was right at median. I cannot post my exact fall grades for obvious reasons, but I did get a C and my GPA for that semester was about .3 lower than the median curve.

Maybe it's because my 1L grades weren't that good to begin with, so I was already on a short leash.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:05 pm

daleearnhardt123 wrote:also very interested to hear more. Did they request you send in your grades when you got them? I'm guessing you didn't do this preemptively but I feel like I don't hear about firms asking 2Ls to send in grades mid-year.


Yes. Everyone had to submit 2L fall semester grades as soon as they became available.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby brotherdarkness » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:09 pm

.
Last edited by brotherdarkness on Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

NYstate
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby NYstate » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Well, this is new. I've never heard of anything like this happening. I'm genuinely curious as to what your grades were like this past semester and how much of a drop that was from where you were after 1L.


OP here. Yes, this really caught me off-guard. I've been reading this forum for ages and I have never heard of such a thing.

My 1L GPA was right at median. I cannot post my exact fall grades for obvious reasons, but I did get a C and my GPA for that semester was about .3 lower than the median curve.

Maybe it's because my 1L grades weren't that good to begin with, so I was already on a short leash.


Has this firm no offered people recently?

How did the conversation go?

I'm curious about this. I would take it seriously.
Last edited by NYstate on Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:14 pm

OP again. For what it is worth, I can assure you this is not a flame.

I'm well aware of the history of 2Ls freaking out about their bad 2L grades on this forum, but to my knowledge no one has reported any such phone call in the past. This is why it unnerves me.

Again, I know there is nothing I can do except work hard this semester. But the point of posting is to ask if anyone has received a warning halfway through 2L year for underperformance. I take it this is quite unusual.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:16 pm

NYstate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Well, this is new. I've never heard of anything like this happening. I'm genuinely curious as to what your grades were like this past semester and how much of a drop that was from where you were after 1L.


OP here. Yes, this really caught me off-guard. I've been reading this forum for ages and I have never heard of such a thing.

My 1L GPA was right at median. I cannot post my exact fall grades for obvious reasons, but I did get a C and my GPA for that semester was about .3 lower than the median curve.

Maybe it's because my 1L grades weren't that good to begin with, so I was already on a short leash.


Has this firm no offered people recently?

How did the conversation go?


This firm has been known to no-offer people.

The conversation was short but polite.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:19 pm

Well, I'll let you know what happens. Also, when I say that this firm is V100 it could be anywhere from V1 to V100, not necessarily a V90-100. So it is a significant firm with a sizable summer class. Don't know if this is some kind of new thing they're starting to do now.

daleearnhardt123
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby daleearnhardt123 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:20 pm

My guess is that the firm (or firms in general, perhaps) isn't taking too kindly to the notion of its 2L OCI offerees just slacking through the remaining 2 years of law school - something which I'd guess was quite common many years ago. I don't blame firms for trying to prevent a return to that era either.

If I were you, and if I have any more contact with the firm before the summer, I'd just try to explain that you're still working hard but something went wrong in the class you got a C in. I would imagine the other classes were median or better, or else you'd of dropped by more than you did. if you can convince them you've still got your head in the game, there probably isn't THAT much to worry about yet.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby NYstate » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
NYstate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
brotherdarkness wrote:Well, this is new. I've never heard of anything like this happening. I'm genuinely curious as to what your grades were like this past semester and how much of a drop that was from where you were after 1L.


OP here. Yes, this really caught me off-guard. I've been reading this forum for ages and I have never heard of such a thing.

My 1L GPA was right at median. I cannot post my exact fall grades for obvious reasons, but I did get a C and my GPA for that semester was about .3 lower than the median curve.

Maybe it's because my 1L grades weren't that good to begin with, so I was already on a short leash.


Has this firm no offered people recently?

How did the conversation go?


This firm is known to no-offer people.

The conversation was short but polite.


All you can do is get as good grades as possible this semester. I haven't heard of this, but it might be underreported. This may be a way for them to give you a heads up while you still have a chance to improve. They don't want to no offer people at the end of the summer because of grades, when there was nothing the person could have done about that. Maybe they are trying to be more transparent.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:23 pm

daleearnhardt123 wrote:My guess is that the firm (or firms in general, perhaps) isn't taking too kindly to the notion of its 2L OCI offerees just slacking through the remaining 2 years of law school - something which I'd guess was quite common many years ago. I don't blame firms for trying to prevent a return to that era either.

If I were you, and if I have any more contact with the firm before the summer, I'd just try to explain that you're still working hard but something went wrong in the class you got a C in. I would imagine the other classes were median or better, or else you'd of dropped by more than you did. if you can convince them you've still got your head in the game, there probably isn't THAT much to worry about yet.


I am considering sending them an e-mail just restating the fact that I understand their concerns and my commitment to doing better. But I don't know. Does anyone think I should just stay quiet and not press the issue further?

NYstate
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby NYstate » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:23 pm

daleearnhardt123 wrote:My guess is that the firm (or firms in general, perhaps) isn't taking too kindly to the notion of its 2L OCI offerees just slacking through the remaining 2 years of law school - something which I'd guess was quite common many years ago. I don't blame firms for trying to prevent a return to that era either.

If I were you, and if I have any more contact with the firm before the summer, I'd just try to explain that you're still working hard but something went wrong in the class you got a C in. I would imagine the other classes were median or better, or else you'd of dropped by more than you did. if you can convince them you've still got your head in the game, there probably isn't THAT much to worry about yet.


I wouldn't do this. Don't remind them of your bad grade.
Is there anything else you can do to burnish your academic resume? Articles or work with a prestigious prof? Not sure if that would help.

NYstate
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby NYstate » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
daleearnhardt123 wrote:My guess is that the firm (or firms in general, perhaps) isn't taking too kindly to the notion of its 2L OCI offerees just slacking through the remaining 2 years of law school - something which I'd guess was quite common many years ago. I don't blame firms for trying to prevent a return to that era either.

If I were you, and if I have any more contact with the firm before the summer, I'd just try to explain that you're still working hard but something went wrong in the class you got a C in. I would imagine the other classes were median or better, or else you'd of dropped by more than you did. if you can convince them you've still got your head in the game, there probably isn't THAT much to worry about yet.


I am considering sending them an e-mail just restating the fact that I understand their concerns and my commitment to doing better. But I don't know. Does anyone think I should just stay quiet and not press the issue further?

Such a tough call. Can you get great grades this semester? Maybe write a draft and post it.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:34 pm

NYstate wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
daleearnhardt123 wrote:My guess is that the firm (or firms in general, perhaps) isn't taking too kindly to the notion of its 2L OCI offerees just slacking through the remaining 2 years of law school - something which I'd guess was quite common many years ago. I don't blame firms for trying to prevent a return to that era either.

If I were you, and if I have any more contact with the firm before the summer, I'd just try to explain that you're still working hard but something went wrong in the class you got a C in. I would imagine the other classes were median or better, or else you'd of dropped by more than you did. if you can convince them you've still got your head in the game, there probably isn't THAT much to worry about yet.


I am considering sending them an e-mail just restating the fact that I understand their concerns and my commitment to doing better. But I don't know. Does anyone think I should just stay quiet and not press the issue further?

Such a tough call. Can you get great grades this semester? Maybe write a draft and post it.


I'll think about it. My inclination is to just leave them alone and focus on classes.

Right now I am tending toward thinking that they are just giving me a heads-up (and not indicating something more sinister) because, as far as the numbers go, I actually only need a good (not perfect) spring semester to make my GPA where it was after 1L. That's perhaps one unintended benefit of not doing that well 1L year.

Jchance
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Jchance » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:35 pm

daleearnhardt123 wrote:My guess is that the firm (or firms in general, perhaps) isn't taking too kindly to the notion of its 2L OCI offerees just slacking through the remaining 2 years of law school - something which I'd guess was quite common many years ago. I don't blame firms for trying to prevent a return to that era either.

If I were you, and if I have any more contact with the firm before the summer, I'd just try to explain that you're still working hard but something went wrong in the class you got a C in. I would imagine the other classes were median or better, or else you'd of dropped by more than you did. if you can convince them you've still got your head in the game, there probably isn't THAT much to worry about yet.


IMO, this is bad advice, sounds like excuses to me. If I was a partner at a firm, I wouldnt want to hear this, I want RESULTS!! Get results and show them.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Pokemon » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
daleearnhardt123 wrote:My guess is that the firm (or firms in general, perhaps) isn't taking too kindly to the notion of its 2L OCI offerees just slacking through the remaining 2 years of law school - something which I'd guess was quite common many years ago. I don't blame firms for trying to prevent a return to that era either.

If I were you, and if I have any more contact with the firm before the summer, I'd just try to explain that you're still working hard but something went wrong in the class you got a C in. I would imagine the other classes were median or better, or else you'd of dropped by more than you did. if you can convince them you've still got your head in the game, there probably isn't THAT much to worry about yet.


I am considering sending them an e-mail just restating the fact that I understand their concerns and my commitment to doing better. But I don't know. Does anyone think I should just stay quiet and not press the issue further?



If I was in your place, I would stay quiet. They are busy, they expect results and not promises of good results. I would also look at other firms during 2L summer; maybe they over-hired during OCI and now they are looking for ways to cut down their class.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:52 pm

OP here. I'm going to stay quiet and just focus on doing well this semester. It's been a week since the call and it would be weird to just bring it up again out of the blue.

My fall grades were not good but it's not like I flunked out; a good spring semester would put me where I was after 1L. So if this is their way of indicating that they need to cull their summer ranks, I understand and I am willing to think about plan B when push comes to shove.

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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Legacy Rabbit » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:37 pm

NYstate wrote:
daleearnhardt123 wrote:My guess is that the firm (or firms in general, perhaps) isn't taking too kindly to the notion of its 2L OCI offerees just slacking through the remaining 2 years of law school - something which I'd guess was quite common many years ago. I don't blame firms for trying to prevent a return to that era either.

If I were you, and if I have any more contact with the firm before the summer, I'd just try to explain that you're still working hard but something went wrong in the class you got a C in. I would imagine the other classes were median or better, or else you'd of dropped by more than you did. if you can convince them you've still got your head in the game, there probably isn't THAT much to worry about yet.


I wouldn't do this. Don't remind them of your bad grade.
Is there anything else you can do to burnish your academic resume? Articles or work with a prestigious prof? Not sure if that would help.


Negative

Reach out to the firm two weeks from the date of the phone call.
1. Say thank you for taking the time to reach out. Clearly you made an impression for ANYONE to take the time to call you about this matter

2. Restate you understand the firm's concerns and take full responsibility for drop in grades.

3. Advise what you are doing to remedy the matter.

All of this should take no more than three lines within the body of an email.

4. Signature Line
Sincerely,
[first and last name]
[name of law school]

5. I forgot to mention proper greetings and salutations (Mr. or Ms. I would not jump to Mrs.)

Do not attempt to call. Within the subject line. write FOLLOW UP: Phone conference (date of conversation) your first and last name (the firm's name of the summer program)

- it is important to give complete but direct information in the subject line. These people are busy and you do not want them trying to figure out who you are amongst the 175+ emails they receive on the regular.

stay of TLS and STUDY

good luck

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:33 pm

Legacy Rabbit wrote:Negative

Reach out to the firm two weeks from the date of the phone call.
1. Say thank you for taking the time to reach out. Clearly you made an impression for ANYONE to take the time to call you about this matter

2. Restate you understand the firm's concerns and take full responsibility for drop in grades.

3. Advise what you are doing to remedy the matter.

All of this should take no more than three lines within the body of an email.

4. Signature Line
Sincerely,
[first and last name]
[name of law school]

5. I forgot to mention proper greetings and salutations (Mr. or Ms. I would not jump to Mrs.)

Do not attempt to call. Within the subject line. write FOLLOW UP: Phone conference (date of conversation) your first and last name (the firm's name of the summer program)

- it is important to give complete but direct information in the subject line. These people are busy and you do not want them trying to figure out who you are amongst the 175+ emails they receive on the regular.

stay of TLS and STUDY

good luck

You're a 0L. You're not allowed to give advice here. Please read the forum rules.

Anonymous User
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:48 pm

2L going to BigLaw this summer and I also was a 1L summer associate. I don't think you need to remind people of your not so great grade.


Just focus on your grades and keep it moving!

You only need to show improvement, but I agree with the other posters about not reminding the firm of your bad grades. The partner who called you may be interested in you, for some reason, and just needs you to excel. I think the whole 2L big law summer coast could be a concern for some folks.

mushybrain
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby mushybrain » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:51 pm

And dear lord that's awful advice. I hope Legacy Rabbit is trolling.

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Lincoln
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Re: Phone call regarding 2L grades

Postby Lincoln » Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:56 pm

Associate at NYC big firm here. Do not call them; do not write them. Just do what you can to get better grades this semester.




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