San Francisco Biglaw Associate taking questions Forum

[Mickfromgm]

So you're asking if an attorney who went to a not T-14 not in CA and who worked at a startup in SF moved into big law?

Correct. no T-14, no ties to CA except for the last couple of work experience in SF for startups.

I mean, I'm sure this has happened. But it seems much more interesting to take on a bizdev/legal role at a startup and just stay in house. Being able to put together interesting deals and then farming the boring pieces out to counsel seems like a much more interesting play in the long run.

Typically, the biggest road block for fresh graduates is that companies, even startups, want someone with at least 2 years of experience in their legal department. But if it is a hybrid business development & legal type of position . . . maybe, depending on prior experience.

[SmokeytheBear]

Why is the California legal market so small, comparing to the population size and GDP output of the state? I'm grouping SF+SV, LA+OC, and also want to hear about San Diego.

Can you provide some data comparing legal markets (either based on attorney head count, $$$, or something) to back up the "so small" claim?

Ok, so general data doesn't support my claim (https://lawschooltuitionbubble.wordpres ... -by-state/, showing similar # of lawyers per 10000 residents as NY), but what I meant specifically is not # of lawyers per capita, but # of biglaw SA openings as compared to its population+GDP.

Yeah, let's not conflate the number of big law SAs in a state with the size of the "legal market."

More firms are headquartered in NY, larger firms are headquartered in NY, and those more, larger firms have larger SA classes (see e.g. Cravath). Satellite offices of NY firms in CA typically have smaller classes (if not no classes at all); this includes satellite offices of many V20 firms.

(I think just doing a straight (number of attorneys)/(population) analysis isn't that interesting or illustrative of anything other than simply saying there are more lawyers per capita in one state than another. There are a bazillion reasons for this).

[Anonymous User]

Can someone chime in on the IP/IP Lit (general) culture of SF/SV? How are the firms doing given that patent work has generally been down?

[Anonymous User]

Second year NY V5 corporate associate trying to lateral to the Bay Area in the next 3-6 months. I don't have any ties to the Area, but my fiancé was just hired by a tech company there and we intend to stay long term. I have had general exposure to M&A, Capital Markets, and Finance, but haven't specialized in any one area yet.

Can anyone speak generally to how active the lateral market is for corporate associate in the Bay Area right now? Does it make sense to start my search now or should I wait until I've been at my current firm a full 2 years? To anyone who has successfully lateralled, did you apply to positions posted or directly email the recruiting contact with your information?

Really any general advice on how to best position myself to make this move would be greatly appreciated.

[Anonymous User]

Others might have different advice, but here's my thoughts:
--spouse taking a job there is enough for "ties" in the Bay Area.
--if you haven't taken it, sign up for the CA july bar ASAP so you'd be ready to swear in by November/December this year.
--check gobiglaw.com and start applying to corporate openings. Lateral process can take 4+ months to secure a position. You can use a recruiter if you want.

[Bluem_11]

Can someone chime in on the IP/IP Lit (general) culture of SF/SV? How are the firms doing given that patent work has generally been down?

Anecdotal evidence alert: I'm not in SF right now but when I was looking for work about a year ago I had plenty of prosecution-based interviews in SF/SV and I'm not an 'elite' candidate so someone must be making $$ there. Comp sci background.

[SmokeytheBear]

Second year NY V5 corporate associate trying to lateral to the Bay Area in the next 3-6 months. I don't have any ties to the Area, but my fiancé was just hired by a tech company there and we intend to stay long term. I have had general exposure to M&A, Capital Markets, and Finance, but haven't specialized in any one area yet.

Can anyone speak generally to how active the lateral market is for corporate associate in the Bay Area right now? Does it make sense to start my search now or should I wait until I've been at my current firm a full 2 years? To anyone who has successfully lateralled, did you apply to positions posted or directly email the recruiting contact with your information?

Really any general advice on how to best position myself to make this move would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah you need to be admitted in CA first. Almost no firms will look at you until then.

Lateral market is good. I get maybe four emails or calls a week for Bay Area spots.

Once admitted you can PM me if you'd like and I can send you the info of a recruiter I've worked with up there who is solid.

[Anonymous User]

People regularly selling heroin and crack on the streets, junkies shooting up in public, frequent stabbings and the occasional murder (I went to Hastings, we got alerts about some of this stuff). Most of it is just drug addicts/dealers wailing on each other; though I do try and avoid the TL if I can and would not park my car on the street there.

I saw a dude walking down the street in the 'loin a month ago only wearing shoes and a tube sock around his johnson. Like an actual white tube sock. Red stripes I think.

Is Market Street a hard cut-off like some of the borders of Skid Row in LA? or does the shittiness leak down across Market? (i'm looking at stuff in the 7th street area)

[SFSpartan]

People regularly selling heroin and crack on the streets, junkies shooting up in public, frequent stabbings and the occasional murder (I went to Hastings, we got alerts about some of this stuff). Most of it is just drug addicts/dealers wailing on each other; though I do try and avoid the TL if I can and would not park my car on the street there.

I saw a dude walking down the street in the 'loin a month ago only wearing shoes and a tube sock around his johnson. Like an actual white tube sock. Red stripes I think.

Is Market Street a hard cut-off like some of the borders of Skid Row in LA? or does the shittiness leak down across Market? (i'm looking at stuff in the 7th street area)

In that part of the City it goes across Market and into SOMA about 2-3 blocks. If you can, try to get a place on the west side of Van Ness. It's less shitty over there IME.

Edit: Assuming you are the anon from above, you won't be in SF for a year. You might want to slow play your living situation a bit, as there are some new developments around mid-Market that are currently being built. It may be, that once those are finished, SOMA improves between 5th and 8th - that's pretty much what happened when the Twitter building went up down Market.

[anon3030]

I am starting in SF this fall, and my gf will need to take the caltran for her job. We are looking to live very close to the station at 4th and king to make her commute easier, and I still will be in walking distance of the office around there. Any opinions on living closer to Folsom/Harrison, the new apartments by Mission Creek Park, or right on Berry street? We have a dog, so living right next to some green space is a consideration.

[Anonymous User]

In that part of the City it goes across Market and into SOMA about 2-3 blocks. If you can, try to get a place on the west side of Van Ness. It's less shitty over there IME.

Edit: Assuming you are the anon from above, you won't be in SF for a year. You might want to slow play your living situation a bit, as there are some new developments around mid-Market that are currently being built. It may be, that once those are finished, SOMA improves between 5th and 8th - that's pretty much what happened when the Twitter building went up down Market.

I am the previous anon. Thanks for the info, its much appreciated.

[johndhi]

I am starting in SF this fall, and my gf will need to take the caltran for her job. We are looking to live very close to the station at 4th and king to make her commute easier, and I still will be in walking distance of the office around there. Any opinions on living closer to Folsom/Harrison, the new apartments by Mission Creek Park, or right on Berry street? We have a dog, so living right next to some green space is a consideration.

Seems like a decent place to live. Baseball traffic will be a pain in your ass but cest la vie.

People regularly selling heroin and crack on the streets, junkies shooting up in public, frequent stabbings and the occasional murder (I went to Hastings, we got alerts about some of this stuff). Most of it is just drug addicts/dealers wailing on each other; though I do try and avoid the TL if I can and would not park my car on the street there.

I saw a dude walking down the street in the 'loin a month ago only wearing shoes and a tube sock around his johnson. Like an actual white tube sock. Red stripes I think.

Is Market Street a hard cut-off like some of the borders of Skid Row in LA? or does the shittiness leak down across Market? (i'm looking at stuff in the 7th street area)

In that part of the City it goes across Market and into SOMA about 2-3 blocks. If you can, try to get a place on the west side of Van Ness. It's less shitty over there IME.

Edit: Assuming you are the anon from above, you won't be in SF for a year. You might want to slow play your living situation a bit, as there are some new developments around mid-Market that are currently being built. It may be, that once those are finished, SOMA improves between 5th and 8th - that's pretty much what happened when the Twitter building went up down Market.

Completely disagree. 6th and 7th Street in SOMA aren't getting nice any time soon, and the area around Twitter is still shitty. Imo you should live in a real neighborhood in a real house, but feel free to do the cookie cutter apartment thing if you must.

[SFSpartan]

I am starting in SF this fall, and my gf will need to take the caltran for her job. We are looking to live very close to the station at 4th and king to make her commute easier, and I still will be in walking distance of the office around there. Any opinions on living closer to Folsom/Harrison, the new apartments by Mission Creek Park, or right on Berry street? We have a dog, so living right next to some green space is a consideration.

Seems like a decent place to live. Baseball traffic will be a pain in your ass but cest la vie.

People regularly selling heroin and crack on the streets, junkies shooting up in public, frequent stabbings and the occasional murder (I went to Hastings, we got alerts about some of this stuff). Most of it is just drug addicts/dealers wailing on each other; though I do try and avoid the TL if I can and would not park my car on the street there.

I saw a dude walking down the street in the 'loin a month ago only wearing shoes and a tube sock around his johnson. Like an actual white tube sock. Red stripes I think.

Is Market Street a hard cut-off like some of the borders of Skid Row in LA? or does the shittiness leak down across Market? (i'm looking at stuff in the 7th street area)

In that part of the City it goes across Market and into SOMA about 2-3 blocks. If you can, try to get a place on the west side of Van Ness. It's less shitty over there IME.

Edit: Assuming you are the anon from above, you won't be in SF for a year. You might want to slow play your living situation a bit, as there are some new developments around mid-Market that are currently being built. It may be, that once those are finished, SOMA improves between 5th and 8th - that's pretty much what happened when the Twitter building went up down Market.

Completely disagree. 6th and 7th Street in SOMA aren't getting nice any time soon, and the area around Twitter is still shitty. Imo you should live in a real neighborhood in a real house, but feel free to do the cookie cutter apartment thing if you must.

The area around Twitter isn't great, but it also isn't the giant outdoor crack den that it used to be. 6th, 7th and 8th are all still like that. I do agree that Anon should live in an actual neighborhood (i.e. Hayes Valley) though.

[Anonymous User]

Second year NY V5 corporate associate trying to lateral to the Bay Area in the next 3-6 months. I don't have any ties to the Area, but my fiancé was just hired by a tech company there and we intend to stay long term. I have had general exposure to M&A, Capital Markets, and Finance, but haven't specialized in any one area yet.

Can anyone speak generally to how active the lateral market is for corporate associate in the Bay Area right now? Does it make sense to start my search now or should I wait until I've been at my current firm a full 2 years? To anyone who has successfully lateralled, did you apply to positions posted or directly email the recruiting contact with your information?

Really any general advice on how to best position myself to make this move would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah you need to be admitted in CA first. Almost no firms will look at you until then.

Lateral market is good. I get maybe four emails or calls a week for Bay Area spots.

Once admitted you can PM me if you'd like and I can send you the info of a recruiter I've worked with up there who is solid.

Admission to CA bar is not necessary. Currently, work at a major SV/SF firm and we hire laterals without CA bar. We give a couple weeks for you to study.

[Anonymous User]

I lived on 6th in Soma right across from the tenderloin. It was fine for me as a dude who didn't mind punching a few crackheads that got too close, but chicks didn't love it when I gave them my address to meet me at my place, especially after dark

[Anonymous User]

I lived on 6th in Soma right across from the tenderloin. It was fine for me as a dude who didn't mind punching a few crackheads that got too close, but chicks didn't love it when I gave them my address to meet me at my place, especially after dark

Do the homeless/druggies bother you if you, as a dude, wear suit to work everyday, walking from/through Tenderloin?

[SmokeytheBear]

Second year NY V5 corporate associate trying to lateral to the Bay Area in the next 3-6 months. I don't have any ties to the Area, but my fiancé was just hired by a tech company there and we intend to stay long term. I have had general exposure to M&A, Capital Markets, and Finance, but haven't specialized in any one area yet.

Can anyone speak generally to how active the lateral market is for corporate associate in the Bay Area right now? Does it make sense to start my search now or should I wait until I've been at my current firm a full 2 years? To anyone who has successfully lateralled, did you apply to positions posted or directly email the recruiting contact with your information?

Really any general advice on how to best position myself to make this move would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah you need to be admitted in CA first. Almost no firms will look at you until then.

Lateral market is good. I get maybe four emails or calls a week for Bay Area spots.

Once admitted you can PM me if you'd like and I can send you the info of a recruiter I've worked with up there who is solid.

Admission to CA bar is not necessary. Currently, work at a major SV/SF firm and we hire laterals without CA bar. We give a couple weeks for you to study.

As I said, almost no firms will look at you. It's certainly not the norm.

[Anonymous User]

Second year NY V5 corporate associate trying to lateral to the Bay Area in the next 3-6 months. I don't have any ties to the Area, but my fiancé was just hired by a tech company there and we intend to stay long term. I have had general exposure to M&A, Capital Markets, and Finance, but haven't specialized in any one area yet.

Can anyone speak generally to how active the lateral market is for corporate associate in the Bay Area right now? Does it make sense to start my search now or should I wait until I've been at my current firm a full 2 years? To anyone who has successfully lateralled, did you apply to positions posted or directly email the recruiting contact with your information?

Really any general advice on how to best position myself to make this move would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah you need to be admitted in CA first. Almost no firms will look at you until then.

Lateral market is good. I get maybe four emails or calls a week for Bay Area spots.

Once admitted you can PM me if you'd like and I can send you the info of a recruiter I've worked with up there who is solid.

Admission to CA bar is not necessary. Currently, work at a major SV/SF firm and we hire laterals without CA bar. We give a couple weeks for you to study.

As I said, almost no firms will look at you. It's certainly not the norm.

As someone who has recently gone through the recruiting process and will be moving to CA next month, I can say that this is not true at all. In my experience, most firms will hire you even without CA admission and will give you a couple of months (depending on when you move in relation to the next administration of the bar) to take the bar. Qualification: I am moving from NY and in corporate.

[SFSpartan]

Second year NY V5 corporate associate trying to lateral to the Bay Area in the next 3-6 months. I don't have any ties to the Area, but my fiancé was just hired by a tech company there and we intend to stay long term. I have had general exposure to M&A, Capital Markets, and Finance, but haven't specialized in any one area yet.

Can anyone speak generally to how active the lateral market is for corporate associate in the Bay Area right now? Does it make sense to start my search now or should I wait until I've been at my current firm a full 2 years? To anyone who has successfully lateralled, did you apply to positions posted or directly email the recruiting contact with your information?

Really any general advice on how to best position myself to make this move would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah you need to be admitted in CA first. Almost no firms will look at you until then.

Lateral market is good. I get maybe four emails or calls a week for Bay Area spots.

Once admitted you can PM me if you'd like and I can send you the info of a recruiter I've worked with up there who is solid.

Admission to CA bar is not necessary. Currently, work at a major SV/SF firm and we hire laterals without CA bar. We give a couple weeks for you to study.

As I said, almost no firms will look at you. It's certainly not the norm.

This may be a point where corp is different than lit. The top-tier corporate shops take NY laterals that are not barred (this isn't the norm, but certainly isn't rare either)

[Anonymous User]

I lived on 6th in Soma right across from the tenderloin. It was fine for me as a dude who didn't mind punching a few crackheads that got too close, but chicks didn't love it when I gave them my address to meet me at my place, especially after dark

Do the homeless/druggies bother you if you, as a dude, wear suit to work everyday, walking from/through Tenderloin?

would you really be wearing a suit? Didn't know any bay area firms did that.

Anyways, they don't really bother you in the morning other than normal panhandling

Most of them are still passed out at like 6:30am when I would usually leave to catch CalTrain. More active on the way home, and most active when going to/from bars. I don't see why a suit would change anything, other than probably call a little extra attention to yourself that you have money

A lot of them will start to talk shit to you or tell you they'll rob u or whatever, but they're actually huge pussies and if you intimidate them back they'll run away to their "friends" who will then also talk shit to them. Crackheads never have each others' backs.
At worst just one good shove or punch in the face and they'll scamper off. Very weak on account of their daily nutritional intake being crack and booze. Only a few times I really had to do this, maybe once every 1-2 months, but I admit I get a little freaked out when they get too close, never know if they'll stab you with something, diseases they have if they bit you, etc..



Edit to add: Don't expect them to ever go anywhere. I was in a 2 bed that cost roughly $5k, there is a ton of new construction in the area, etc... The city of SF supports them being there. Many methadone clinics in the area. Startups trying to give them showers and shit lol. The only time the city of SF actually moved them was for the Super Bowl, they dumped them all down south and actively policed them for a few days. Super bullshit IMO that they put up that facade when all the visitors came into town, and then don't give a fuck about the problem the rest of the time. But it is what it is, they're not going anywhere.

[Anonymous User]

At worst just one good shove or punch in the face and they'll scamper off. Very weak on account of their daily nutritional intake being crack and booze. Only a few times I really had to do this, maybe once every 1-2 months.

This is hilarious. You consider it not a big deal that living where you live requires you to get into physical altercations with crackheads 6-12 times a year?

[Anonymous User]

At worst just one good shove or punch in the face and they'll scamper off. Very weak on account of their daily nutritional intake being crack and booze. Only a few times I really had to do this, maybe once every 1-2 months.

This is hilarious. You consider it not a big deal that living where you live requires you to get into physical altercations with crackheads 6-12 times a year?

I mean it is what it is... Was OK by me for the rent savings, and pretty prime location close to Polk st bars and mission bars, close enough to CalTrain, large super luxury newly renovated unit. Girls lived in my building too, they obviously would only uber to/from home at night time. The building doormen kept the riffraff away from the front of the building

[Anonymous User]

I mean it is what it is... Was OK by me for the rent savings, and pretty prime location close to Polk st bars and mission bars, close enough to CalTrain, large super luxury newly renovated unit. Girls lived in my building too, they obviously would only uber to/from home at night time. The building doormen kept the riffraff away from the front of the building

names of these "large super luxury newly renovated unit"? I want to look into some of them for potential housing sich.

[Anonymous User]

Second year NY V5 corporate associate trying to lateral to the Bay Area in the next 3-6 months. I don't have any ties to the Area, but my fiancé was just hired by a tech company there and we intend to stay long term. I have had general exposure to M&A, Capital Markets, and Finance, but haven't specialized in any one area yet.

Can anyone speak generally to how active the lateral market is for corporate associate in the Bay Area right now? Does it make sense to start my search now or should I wait until I've been at my current firm a full 2 years? To anyone who has successfully lateralled, did you apply to positions posted or directly email the recruiting contact with your information?

Really any general advice on how to best position myself to make this move would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah you need to be admitted in CA first. Almost no firms will look at you until then.

Lateral market is good. I get maybe four emails or calls a week for Bay Area spots.

Once admitted you can PM me if you'd like and I can send you the info of a recruiter I've worked with up there who is solid.

Admission to CA bar is not necessary. Currently, work at a major SV/SF firm and we hire laterals without CA bar. We give a couple weeks for you to study.

As I said, almost no firms will look at you. It's certainly not the norm.

This may be a point where corp is different than lit. The top-tier corporate shops take NY laterals that are not barred (this isn't the norm, but certainly isn't rare either)

I'm the original anon above. I really appreciate all the responses so far. Seems like the take away is take the CA bar before applying if possible, but it's not necessarily fatal to an app to wait. Im slightly concerned about trying to carve out time to study while also working full time.

Just as a follow up to those who went through the lateral process/know of others who have, how long did the process take? Did you use a recruiter or direct mail the firm? If you used a recruiter, any recommendations on good West Coast recruiters? Thanks again!

[SmokeytheBear]

Second year NY V5 corporate associate trying to lateral to the Bay Area in the next 3-6 months. I don't have any ties to the Area, but my fiancé was just hired by a tech company there and we intend to stay long term. I have had general exposure to M&A, Capital Markets, and Finance, but haven't specialized in any one area yet.

Can anyone speak generally to how active the lateral market is for corporate associate in the Bay Area right now? Does it make sense to start my search now or should I wait until I've been at my current firm a full 2 years? To anyone who has successfully lateralled, did you apply to positions posted or directly email the recruiting contact with your information?

Really any general advice on how to best position myself to make this move would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah you need to be admitted in CA first. Almost no firms will look at you until then.

Lateral market is good. I get maybe four emails or calls a week for Bay Area spots.

Once admitted you can PM me if you'd like and I can send you the info of a recruiter I've worked with up there who is solid.

Admission to CA bar is not necessary. Currently, work at a major SV/SF firm and we hire laterals without CA bar. We give a couple weeks for you to study.

As I said, almost no firms will look at you. It's certainly not the norm.

This may be a point where corp is different than lit. The top-tier corporate shops take NY laterals that are not barred (this isn't the norm, but certainly isn't rare either)

I'm the original anon above. I really appreciate all the responses so far. Seems like the take away is take the CA bar before applying if possible, but it's not necessarily fatal to an app to wait. Im slightly concerned about trying to carve out time to study while also working full time.

Just as a follow up to those who went through the lateral process/know of others who have, how long did the process take? Did you use a recruiter or direct mail the firm? If you used a recruiter, any recommendations on good West Coast recruiters? Thanks again!

As I said before, you can PM me and we can discuss recruiters if you would like.