2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

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Anonymous User
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2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:15 pm

CCN 2L, top 25% grades (half B+, half A-) in 1L
Now getting medianish grades (straight B+ so far) in 2L, with one grade still outstanding.

Frankly, the grade I haven't received yet is my hardest class, and I don't know how I did relative to my peers. Worst case scenario: I get a B. Do you think my V10 will consider non-offering me due to deterioration in my grades? Is this a drop-off strong enough to use as pretext for non-offering if I do mediocre work?

Any other stories of offers getting rescinded for this reason appreciated.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - V10 offer revoked?

Postby brotherdarkness » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:21 pm

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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:36 pm

m
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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2014
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby 2014 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:27 pm

Since you are at a V10 you are safe, V11-V14 and it's more hairy.

(Don't worry)

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thesealocust
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:19 pm

As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

rad lulz
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:44 pm

m
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:48 pm

rad lulz wrote:
thesealocust wrote:As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP


Come on, you are overstating it. Just because you get put into the less desirable litigation group, doesn't mean you are boned. The quality of assignment might be severely inferior, but the pay is the same.

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brotherdarkness
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby brotherdarkness » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:52 pm

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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:06 pm

brotherdarkness wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
thesealocust wrote:As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP


Come on, you are overstating it. Just because you get put into the less desirable litigation group, doesn't mean you are boned. The quality of assignment might be severely inferior, but the pay is the same.


Why would you go to GDC for anything but lit? That's their thing...


There are several groups, you get put in a "dud" group. A lot of doc review.

daryldixon
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby daryldixon » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:32 pm

I just did the calculations. You have a 43.27% chance of being no offered if you get those same grades next semester.

Of course I couldn't account for wind speed and resistance but I think you get the idea.

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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:45 pm

If one gets below median in a public speaking course, will the firm realize that I'm aware I'm a bad public speaker and took the class to be a less bad public speaker so I can be a better lawyer? Or is it just chalked into the same calculator?

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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby rpupkin » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If one gets below median in a public speaking course, will the firm realize that I'm aware I'm a bad public speaker and took the class to be a less bad public speaker so I can be a better lawyer? Or is it just chalked into the same calculator?

Most V20 firms put a lot of value on public speaking. If you're outside the V20, then you're probably okay. But if you're summering at a V20, then I'd start talking to 3Ls who just did 3L OCI. You're probably going to need their advice.

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VulcanVulcanVulcan
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby VulcanVulcanVulcan » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:56 pm

thesealocust wrote:As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.


I'll never get enough of this.

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Old Gregg
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby Old Gregg » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:03 am

Depends on your credit score.

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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:19 am

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If one gets below median in a public speaking course, will the firm realize that I'm aware I'm a bad public speaker and took the class to be a less bad public speaker so I can be a better lawyer? Or is it just chalked into the same calculator?

Most V20 firms put a lot of value on public speaking. If you're outside the V20, then you're probably okay. But if you're summering at a V20, then I'd start talking to 3Ls who just did 3L OCI. You're probably going to need their advice.

I know you're likely kidding, but it's a serious topic. Hypothetically if one graduated jobless, that is statistically likely to be a completely different type of living style from getting the offer. You're talking private school vs. possibly not being able to afford to have children, a reliable car vs. the bus, full medical insurance vs. hoping not to get sick. It's not exactly like I only care so I have latin on a piece of paper. I'm the type that would hang my diploma upside down, but I am serious about being employed.

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Old Gregg
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby Old Gregg » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If one gets below median in a public speaking course, will the firm realize that I'm aware I'm a bad public speaker and took the class to be a less bad public speaker so I can be a better lawyer? Or is it just chalked into the same calculator?

Most V20 firms put a lot of value on public speaking. If you're outside the V20, then you're probably okay. But if you're summering at a V20, then I'd start talking to 3Ls who just did 3L OCI. You're probably going to need their advice.

I know you're likely kidding, but it's a serious topic. Hypothetically if one graduated jobless, that is statistically likely to be a completely different type of living style from getting the offer. You're talking private school vs. possibly not being able to afford to have children, a reliable car vs. the bus, full medical insurance vs. hoping not to get sick. It's not exactly like I only care so I have latin on a piece of paper. I'm the type that would hang my diploma upside down, but I am serious about being employed.


If there was that much at stake (there isn't), you'd have spent all the time wasted worrying here and built some sense to realize how stupid your question was. This sense will prove far more useful in life.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:14 am

OP: I sympathize with how stressful this situation is and how, despite general TLS assurances to the contrary, the prospect of a no-offer because of a grade drop eats at your confidence.

A couple years ago I summered at one of the firms that is notorious for handing out no-offers like candy (we ended up with an ~80% offer rate my summer) and that has a reputation on TLS for being incredibly grade snobby. My grades, which were near perfect 1L year, plummeted 2L year and I ended up around median by the end of it (they stayed there for 3L year too). I received an offer. The drop certainly put me on edge, and it gave the firm enough rope to justify cutting me for any work product failure, so in response I made damn sure that I didn't have any work product failures. My grades never came up in my exit interview and when I received my offer I had one of the more influential/senior partners call and invite me to work in his practice group when I return to the firm (which I chose not to do for a variety of reasons). I know that at least one of the no-offered kids graduated with stellar grades and landed an amazing COA clerkship after graduation, but had summer work product issues, which leads me to believe that work product >>> grades in the offer evaluation. If you're at a firm with a ~100% offer rate then you're golden barring a serious work-related screwup.

tl;dr: Grades alone are very unlikely to result in a no-offer. Don't treat summer as a joke, do good work, impress the partners, and you'll be fine.

rad lulz
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby rad lulz » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP: I sympathize with how stressful this situation is and how, despite general TLS assurances to the contrary, the prospect of a no-offer because of a grade drop eats at your confidence.

A couple years ago I summered at one of the firms that is notorious for handing out no-offers like candy (we ended up with an ~80% offer rate my summer) and that has a reputation on TLS for being incredibly grade snobby. My grades, which were near perfect 1L year, plummeted 2L year and I ended up around median by the end of it (they stayed there for 3L year too). I received an offer. The drop certainly put me on edge, and it gave the firm enough rope to justify cutting me for any work product failure, so in response I made damn sure that I didn't have any work product failures. My grades never came up in my exit interview and when I received my offer I had one of the more influential/senior partners call and invite me to work in his practice group when I return to the firm (which I chose not to do for a variety of reasons). I know that at least one of the no-offered kids graduated with stellar grades and landed an amazing COA clerkship after graduation, but had summer work product issues, which leads me to believe that work product >>> grades in the offer evaluation. If you're at a firm with a ~100% offer rate then you're golden barring a serious work-related screwup.

tl;dr: Grades alone are very unlikely to result in a no-offer. Don't treat summer as a joke, do good work, impress the partners, and you'll be fine.

A firm that hires more people than it has spots for every year?

Sounds awesome

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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:55 pm

zweitbester wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If one gets below median in a public speaking course, will the firm realize that I'm aware I'm a bad public speaker and took the class to be a less bad public speaker so I can be a better lawyer? Or is it just chalked into the same calculator?

Most V20 firms put a lot of value on public speaking. If you're outside the V20, then you're probably okay. But if you're summering at a V20, then I'd start talking to 3Ls who just did 3L OCI. You're probably going to need their advice.

I know you're likely kidding, but it's a serious topic. Hypothetically if one graduated jobless, that is statistically likely to be a completely different type of living style from getting the offer. You're talking private school vs. possibly not being able to afford to have children, a reliable car vs. the bus, full medical insurance vs. hoping not to get sick. It's not exactly like I only care so I have latin on a piece of paper. I'm the type that would hang my diploma upside down, but I am serious about being employed.


If there was that much at stake (there isn't), you'd have spent all the time wasted worrying here and built some sense to realize how stupid your question was. This sense will prove far more useful in life.

Well, it's not like I slacked off. I'm bad at public speaking so I took classes to get less bad at public speaking. The exams were fine; this was not.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

p1arnold
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby p1arnold » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:29 pm

Desert Fox wrote:There are several groups, you get put in a "dud" group. A lot of doc review.


Could get thrown into the endless "transnational" group, which involves years of doc review for oil companies trying to stop villagers!

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:36 pm

rad lulz wrote:
thesealocust wrote:As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP


Why do you guys post this shit?

This is easily the 4th of so thread from this year that you've clogged with this kind of trolling. The issue is that it just feeds the problem: we get more of these threads because you guys have created doubt in 2Ls by posting this stuff, rendering the search function near useless for 2Ls because all it turns up is more of your trolling.

If you want these threads to go away, just give an honest answer in the first place.

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Old Gregg
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby Old Gregg » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:41 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
thesealocust wrote:As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP


Come on, you are overstating it. Just because you get put into the less desirable litigation group, doesn't mean you are boned. The quality of assignment might be severely inferior, but the pay is the same.


Depends. I know an associate who was told to his face that because he got one A-, they were gonna shove him in real estate. Now he reviews leases instead of drafting SCOTUS briefs.

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philosoraptor
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby philosoraptor » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:50 pm

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
thesealocust wrote:As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP


Why do you guys post this shit?

This is easily the 4th of so thread from this year that you've clogged with this kind of trolling. The issue is that it just feeds the problem: we get more of these threads because you guys have created doubt in 2Ls by posting this stuff, rendering the search function near useless for 2Ls because all it turns up is more of your trolling.

If you want these threads to go away, just give an honest answer in the first place.
Oh calm down. Rad and TSL are the two most helpful posters on the entire forum. These threads are stupid, deserve to be mocked, and will never go away no matter what because law students are neurotic and paranoid.

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2014
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby 2014 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:36 pm

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
thesealocust wrote:As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP


Why do you guys post this shit?

This is easily the 4th of so thread from this year that you've clogged with this kind of trolling. The issue is that it just feeds the problem: we get more of these threads because you guys have created doubt in 2Ls by posting this stuff, rendering the search function near useless for 2Ls because all it turns up is more of your trolling.

If you want these threads to go away, just give an honest answer in the first place.

(Summer 2014 GDC SA)

crit_racer
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Re: 2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me?

Postby crit_racer » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:16 pm

You're fine I promise. Now chill




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