Employer asked for Class Rank

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salcmh
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Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby salcmh » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:54 am

I'm a '13 grad and still have no job :roll: . I have an interview with a biglaw firm coming up (this is a miracle), and they asked for my class rank. They want me to include it on an updated copy of my resume before I come in. I have my GPA on my resume, as it's not terrible and it is above 3.0. But I was in the bottom half of my class. I'm not sure how to phrase it on my resume, and I don't want to leave it out since they specifically asked for it. What should I do? Write bottom 50% and try to explain when I get there??

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guano
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby guano » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:00 pm

salcmh wrote:I'm a '13 grad and still have no job :roll: . I have an interview with a biglaw firm coming up (this is a miracle), and they asked for my class rank. They want me to include it on an updated copy of my resume before I come in. I have my GPA on my resume, as it's not terrible and it is above 3.0. But I was in the bottom half of my class. I'm not sure how to phrase it on my resume, and I don't want to leave it out since they specifically asked for it. What should I do? Write bottom 50% and try to explain when I get there??

How far below?

I'd try: "GPA: 3.12 (median is 3.17)" or something like that

arklaw13
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby arklaw13 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:08 pm

Does the firm normally hire out of your school? I thought biglaw recruiters generally know what rank corresponds to a given GPA at most schools.

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guano
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby guano » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:13 pm

arklaw13 wrote:Does the firm normally hire out of your school? I thought biglaw recruiters generally know what rank corresponds to a given GPA atWhat… is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow most schools.

Class rank isn't static. Cutoffs vary from year to year

jarofsoup
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby jarofsoup » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:15 pm

Usually your law school has a representation policy. Follow that policy.

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Summerz
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby Summerz » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:16 pm

It is somewhat common for [some] schools not to make available class rank or even median score to its students. Firms have to figure it out themselves.

salcmh
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby salcmh » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:22 pm

arklaw13 wrote:Does the firm normally hire out of your school? I thought biglaw recruiters generally know what rank corresponds to a given GPA at most schools.


The firm doesn't usually hire from my school. I'm in a different city and while our alum are everywhere, we don't have many ties to this firm.

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guano
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby guano » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:25 pm

Summerz wrote:It is somewhat common for [some] schools not to make available class rank or even median score to its students. Firms have to figure it out themselves.

Common at HYS; Fucking rare outside the T14

arklaw13
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby arklaw13 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:29 pm

salcmh wrote:
arklaw13 wrote:Does the firm normally hire out of your school? I thought biglaw recruiters generally know what rank corresponds to a given GPA at most schools.


The firm doesn't usually hire from my school. I'm in a different city and while our alum are everywhere, we don't have many ties to this firm.


Maybe call your CSO and ask them. In any case, good luck!

salcmh
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby salcmh » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:34 pm

@ark

Thanks!

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Summerz
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby Summerz » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:41 pm

guano wrote:
Summerz wrote:It is somewhat common for [some] schools not to make available class rank or even median score to its students. Firms have to figure it out themselves.

Common at HYS; Fucking rare outside the T14

Any thought[s] on why that is?

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guano
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby guano » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:47 pm

Summerz wrote:
guano wrote:
Summerz wrote:It is somewhat common for [some] schools not to make available class rank or even median score to its students. Firms have to figure it out themselves.

Common at HYS; Fucking rare outside the T14

Any thought[s] on why that is?

because at Yale, everyone's a fucking genius, and everyone's getting a job. However, employers still know roughly how well someone did, even without official class ranks (e.g. at HYS, someone with mostly Ps is near the bottom of the class, and someone with mostly Hs is near the top). At non-T14s, the only people competitive for biglaw are people with a high class rank. A school wants to get as many people into biglaw as possible, because they're potential future donors. Therefore, giving class rank helps get more people into biglaw (if a firm isn't familiar with your school, they'll still consider you if you're top X%)

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Summerz
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby Summerz » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:08 pm

guano wrote:
Summerz wrote:
guano wrote:
Summerz wrote:It is somewhat common for [some] schools not to make available class rank or even median score to its students. Firms have to figure it out themselves.

Common at HYS; Fucking rare outside the T14

Any thought[s] on why that is?

because at Yale, everyone's a fucking genius, and everyone's getting a job. However, employers still know roughly how well someone did, even without official class ranks (e.g. at HYS, someone with mostly Ps is near the bottom of the class, and someone with mostly Hs is near the top). At non-T14s, the only people competitive for biglaw are people with a high class rank. A school wants to get as many people into biglaw as possible, because they're potential future donors. Therefore, giving class rank helps get more people into biglaw (if a firm isn't familiar with your school, they'll still consider you if you're top X%)
So, aside from HYS, if you are at a t14 and have a scattering of b+, a-, etc., the firms somehow manage to estimate your class ranking? I can only assume that this might be the case given that some of the t14 threads are peppered with students exiting 2/3L without securing an offer.

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guano
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby guano » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:13 pm

Summerz wrote:So, aside from HYS, if you are at a t14 and have a scattering of b+, a-, etc., the firms somehow manage to estimate your class ranking? I can only assume that this might be the case given that some of the t14 threads are peppered with students exiting 2/3L without securing an offer.

No. Most T14s give out class rank.
At the schools that don't give class rank (Y, S, B, who else?) the firms know how to estimate roughly what the class rank is

The reason there are students exiting 2/3L without offers is because there aren't enough jobs to go round

sparty99
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby sparty99 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:15 pm

salcmh wrote:I'm a '13 grad and still have no job :roll: . I have an interview with a biglaw firm coming up (this is a miracle), and they asked for my class rank. They want me to include it on an updated copy of my resume before I come in. I have my GPA on my resume, as it's not terrible and it is above 3.0. But I was in the bottom half of my class. I'm not sure how to phrase it on my resume, and I don't want to leave it out since they specifically asked for it. What should I do? Write bottom 50% and try to explain when I get there??


I would put: "Bottom 50%" or "Top 60". Make sure you defend yourself in the interview if they ask about grades. "Since 1L, I have maintained a 3.6 gpa or something."

09042014
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:16 pm

Summerz wrote:
guano wrote:
Summerz wrote:
guano wrote:Common at HYS; Fucking rare outside the T14

Any thought[s] on why that is?

because at Yale, everyone's a fucking genius, and everyone's getting a job. However, employers still know roughly how well someone did, even without official class ranks (e.g. at HYS, someone with mostly Ps is near the bottom of the class, and someone with mostly Hs is near the top). At non-T14s, the only people competitive for biglaw are people with a high class rank. A school wants to get as many people into biglaw as possible, because they're potential future donors. Therefore, giving class rank helps get more people into biglaw (if a firm isn't familiar with your school, they'll still consider you if you're top X%)
So, aside from HYS, if you are at a t14 and have a scattering of b+, a-, etc., the firms somehow manage to estimate your class ranking? I can only assume that this might be the case given that some of the t14 threads are peppered with students exiting 2/3L without securing an offer.


Big firms can figure out roughly how well you did at all the t14, including HYS. At least well enough for their purposes. Smaller firms and smaller offices who don't recruit a lot that t14, will have a harder time.

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guano
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby guano » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:16 pm

sparty99 wrote:
salcmh wrote:I'm a '13 grad and still have no job :roll: . I have an interview with a biglaw firm coming up (this is a miracle), and they asked for my class rank. They want me to include it on an updated copy of my resume before I come in. I have my GPA on my resume, as it's not terrible and it is above 3.0. But I was in the bottom half of my class. I'm not sure how to phrase it on my resume, and I don't want to leave it out since they specifically asked for it. What should I do? Write bottom 50% and try to explain when I get there??


I would put: "Bottom 50%" or "Top 60". Make sure you defend yourself in the interview if they ask about grades. "Since 1L, I have maintained a 3.6 gpa or something."

Try to avoid putting "bottom 50%", because that could include being dead last.

09042014
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:17 pm

guano wrote:
Summerz wrote:So, aside from HYS, if you are at a t14 and have a scattering of b+, a-, etc., the firms somehow manage to estimate your class ranking? I can only assume that this might be the case given that some of the t14 threads are peppered with students exiting 2/3L without securing an offer.

No. Most T14s give out class rank.
At the schools that don't give class rank (Y, S, B, who else?) the firms know how to estimate roughly what the class rank is

The reason there are students exiting 2/3L without offers is because there aren't enough jobs to go round


This is wrong. I'm not sure any t14 gives out a class rank. I think a couple will give out only for judges.

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Nelson
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby Nelson » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:18 pm

guano wrote:
Summerz wrote:So, aside from HYS, if you are at a t14 and have a scattering of b+, a-, etc., the firms somehow manage to estimate your class ranking? I can only assume that this might be the case given that some of the t14 threads are peppered with students exiting 2/3L without securing an offer.

No. Most T14s give out class rank.
At the schools that don't give class rank (Y, S, B, who else?) the firms know how to estimate roughly what the class rank is

The reason there are students exiting 2/3L without offers is because there aren't enough jobs to go round
NYU, Columbia, and Penn (and probably more but those are the ones I know of with grades but not GPAs) don't disclose class rank to students or employers and won't let you give a GPA.

Edit: sniped by DF
Last edited by Nelson on Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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guano
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby guano » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:19 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
guano wrote:
Summerz wrote:So, aside from HYS, if you are at a t14 and have a scattering of b+, a-, etc., the firms somehow manage to estimate your class ranking? I can only assume that this might be the case given that some of the t14 threads are peppered with students exiting 2/3L without securing an offer.

No. Most T14s give out class rank.
At the schools that don't give class rank (Y, S, B, who else?) the firms know how to estimate roughly what the class rank is

The reason there are students exiting 2/3L without offers is because there aren't enough jobs to go round


This is wrong. I'm not sure any t14 gives out a class rank. I think a couple will give out only for judges.

I stand corrected. I thought I saw people with definite class ranks at some T14 schools, but, my memory is not the most reliable

mr.hands
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby mr.hands » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:39 pm

Nelson wrote:
guano wrote:
Summerz wrote:So, aside from HYS, if you are at a t14 and have a scattering of b+, a-, etc., the firms somehow manage to estimate your class ranking? I can only assume that this might be the case given that some of the t14 threads are peppered with students exiting 2/3L without securing an offer.

No. Most T14s give out class rank.
At the schools that don't give class rank (Y, S, B, who else?) the firms know how to estimate roughly what the class rank is

The reason there are students exiting 2/3L without offers is because there aren't enough jobs to go round
NYU, Columbia, and Penn (and probably more but those are the ones I know of with grades but not GPAs) don't disclose class rank to students or employers and won't let you give a GPA.

Edit: sniped by DF


Yup. Cornell, Duke, and NU don't release rankings either.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:22 pm

I think perhaps what's confusing is that people at those schools will estimate their ranks all the time, when talking about employment chances here (e.g. "I'm top 1/3 at MVP" or "median at CCN, where should I bid"), but that doesn't mean they have an official school-bestowed rank that they're putting on their resume.

sidhesadie
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby sidhesadie » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:34 pm

I go to a TT, but our school only ranks the top 25%. If your school has given you an official rank (which would look something like 64/232 or whatever), and your potential employer is asking for it, I don't see how you have any choice but to give it. But does your school rank everyone? Below top 25%, all ours does is give the GPA cutoffs for the %. (i.e., top 25% is above 3.xxx, top 30% is above 3.xxx, top 50% is above 3.xxx.) I think the go to like, 75% and that's it. (so if you're in the bottom 25%, that's really all you have any way of knowing.)

If you don't have an actual RANK from your school, then you just say your school doesn't rank X% of the class. If you do…I think you're stuck.

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UVAIce
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby UVAIce » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:37 pm

UVA does not report class rank as well.

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Summerz
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Re: Employer asked for Class Rank

Postby Summerz » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:45 pm

I suppose s/he cannot claim that the school doesn’t issue a class ranking… given that the next applicant from the school might provide their class ranking…resulting in being busted for being untruthful. So the OP is stuck, eh?




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