UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:19 pm

how do journal calls work? if you hear from CJIL/Legal Forum, are you not getting LR? will you hear from multiple journals potentially, or only one?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:28 pm

I'm having immense trouble preparing for OCI.

I've done prep but I'm coming from another field where I worked for a couple of years.
Both my mock interviewers have said that they aren't convinced that I want to go into the practice area (tax) that I claim to want. I have a science background so they are puzzled by why I'm not going into IP. The funny thing is, I'm 100% sure I want to do tax. I've prepped for this question, I'm taking almost all tax classes, and have a coherent answer for why tax (and why not IP).

The feedback I've gotten suggests my answer in the interview is (somewhat?) persuasive but my resume isn't. All my work prior to law school has been in science so I'm not sure what else I can do to convince the interviewer I want tax.

This hurts me two ways:
1) mass mailing- I indicate I want to do tax but it seems like my resume is hurting me
2) interview - even if I can explain in the interview, my resume and work experience suggests I'm more fit for IP

Any advice?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:how do journal calls work? if you hear from CJIL/Legal Forum, are you not getting LR? will you hear from multiple journals potentially, or only one?


I received all three calls at about the same time. It was LF -> CJIL -> LR. I'm not sure what not having a call means though at this point; friend has received LR call but not any from secondaries.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:how do journal calls work? if you hear from CJIL/Legal Forum, are you not getting LR? will you hear from multiple journals potentially, or only one?


I received all three calls at about the same time. It was LF -> CJIL -> LR. I'm not sure what not having a call means though at this point; friend has received LR call but not any from secondaries.


And he/she applied to secondaries?

Neal Patrick Harris
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm having immense trouble preparing for OCI.

I've done prep but I'm coming from another field where I worked for a couple of years.
Both my mock interviewers have said that they aren't convinced that I want to go into the practice area (tax) that I claim to want. I have a science background so they are puzzled by why I'm not going into IP. The funny thing is, I'm 100% sure I want to do tax. I've prepped for this question, I'm taking almost all tax classes, and have a coherent answer for why tax (and why not IP).

The feedback I've gotten suggests my answer in the interview is (somewhat?) persuasive but my resume isn't. All my work prior to law school has been in science so I'm not sure what else I can do to convince the interviewer I want tax.

This hurts me two ways:
1) mass mailing- I indicate I want to do tax but it seems like my resume is hurting me
2) interview - even if I can explain in the interview, my resume and work experience suggests I'm more fit for IP

Any advice?


I think you bite the bullet wrt 1 but as for 2 I think you're likely missing genuine enthusiasm and knowledge of what life is like in the practice area. Talk to tax attys at your desired firms and ask them why tax. Then parrot their answer. Mix in some answers from searching for tax threads on TLS. Be excited about it and know a lot about it is the best advice I can give you. Smile once in awhile :)

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:how do journal calls work? if you hear from CJIL/Legal Forum, are you not getting LR? will you hear from multiple journals potentially, or only one?


I received all three calls at about the same time. It was LF -> CJIL -> LR. I'm not sure what not having a call means though at this point; friend has received LR call but not any from secondaries.


And he/she applied to secondaries?


Yes.

WheninLaw
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:27 pm

As I told someone over PM, it's different this year. You may get a call from any journal, in any order. I called someone for LR at 3:30pm. They had heard from Legal Forum about 1 and CJIL about 2.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:30 pm

WheninLaw wrote:As I told someone over PM, it's different this year. You may get a call from any journal, in any order. I called someone for LR at 3:30pm. They had heard from Legal Forum about 1 and CJIL about 2.


Is LR done calling?

I'm holding out on other journals, wondering when I should accept another invitation.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Zelazny » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm having immense trouble preparing for OCI.

I've done prep but I'm coming from another field where I worked for a couple of years.
Both my mock interviewers have said that they aren't convinced that I want to go into the practice area (tax) that I claim to want. I have a science background so they are puzzled by why I'm not going into IP. The funny thing is, I'm 100% sure I want to do tax. I've prepped for this question, I'm taking almost all tax classes, and have a coherent answer for why tax (and why not IP).

The feedback I've gotten suggests my answer in the interview is (somewhat?) persuasive but my resume isn't. All my work prior to law school has been in science so I'm not sure what else I can do to convince the interviewer I want tax.

This hurts me two ways:
1) mass mailing- I indicate I want to do tax but it seems like my resume is hurting me
2) interview - even if I can explain in the interview, my resume and work experience suggests I'm more fit for IP

Any advice?


OCS often counsels for the path of least resistance. Tax is a fairly niche practice area, and you have presumably never taken a tax class to this point. I don't see how anyone could be 100% sure. If you would like, send me your answer for "why tax" and I'll let you know what I think.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:As I told someone over PM, it's different this year. You may get a call from any journal, in any order. I called someone for LR at 3:30pm. They had heard from Legal Forum about 1 and CJIL about 2.


Is LR done calling?

I'm holding out on other journals, wondering when I should accept another invitation.


I second this. Are all calls made in one day? In a similar position.

WheninLaw
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:As I told someone over PM, it's different this year. You may get a call from any journal, in any order. I called someone for LR at 3:30pm. They had heard from Legal Forum about 1 and CJIL about 2.


Is LR done calling?

I'm holding out on other journals, wondering when I should accept another invitation.


All LR calls should have gone out Monday, July 21. Maybe there's a staffer that managed to fail at calling his/her 2 people, but I doubt it.

Also, (this goes for everyone) take the time to think about whether you really want to do a journal before accepting.

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2014
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:09 am

A couple of things:

1. Tax anon - you should consider PMing me, I think I could be particularly helpful to you.

2. Journal People - I want to give you the benefit of the hard lesson many of my classmates learned. If any part of you wants to take on a journal position merely for the OCI benefit you need to think long and hard about that decision. I know people who did that and invariably regretted it and i know people who turned down journals and they invariably were glad they did. If you take a journal you should really have an interest in clerking or publishing (and have a better reason for wanting to publish than ego). If you are thinking corporate, think even longer and harder about taking a journal because to the extent you interview with any interviewer doing corporate, they will very rarely even notice the journal and more often than not will be more skeptical than impressed.

The one caveat to this is median people who wrote onto LR. I think that does give you a boost, but you should still think really hard about it because the work load for LR compared to secondaries is worse by a factor of like literally 10. You have to decide if you are willing to take your like 95% chance at a firm and turn it into 98% for that commitment.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:29 am

2014 wrote:A couple of things:

1. Tax anon - you should consider PMing me, I think I could be particularly helpful to you.

2. Journal People - I want to give you the benefit of the hard lesson many of my classmates learned. If any part of you wants to take on a journal position merely for the OCI benefit you need to think long and hard about that decision. I know people who did that and invariably regretted it and i know people who turned down journals and they invariably were glad they did. If you take a journal you should really have an interest in clerking or publishing (and have a better reason for wanting to publish than ego). If you are thinking corporate, think even longer and harder about taking a journal because to the extent you interview with any interviewer doing corporate, they will very rarely even notice the journal and more often than not will be more skeptical than impressed.

The one caveat to this is median people who wrote onto LR. I think that does give you a boost, but you should still think really hard about it because the work load for LR compared to secondaries is worse by a factor of like literally 10. You have to decide if you are willing to take your like 95% chance at a firm and turn it into 98% for that commitment.


Also the maroonbook is idiotic

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby gchatbrah » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:21 pm

Neal Patrick Harris wrote:
2014 wrote:A couple of things:

1. Tax anon - you should consider PMing me, I think I could be particularly helpful to you.

2. Journal People - I want to give you the benefit of the hard lesson many of my classmates learned. If any part of you wants to take on a journal position merely for the OCI benefit you need to think long and hard about that decision. I know people who did that and invariably regretted it and i know people who turned down journals and they invariably were glad they did. If you take a journal you should really have an interest in clerking or publishing (and have a better reason for wanting to publish than ego). If you are thinking corporate, think even longer and harder about taking a journal because to the extent you interview with any interviewer doing corporate, they will very rarely even notice the journal and more often than not will be more skeptical than impressed.

The one caveat to this is median people who wrote onto LR. I think that does give you a boost, but you should still think really hard about it because the work load for LR compared to secondaries is worse by a factor of like literally 10. You have to decide if you are willing to take your like 95% chance at a firm and turn it into 98% for that commitment.


Also the maroonbook is idiotic


Low hanging fruit, brah.

WheninLaw
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:55 pm

Haters.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:47 pm

Should I put an interests section on my resume? I've heard strong arguments for both yes and no.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:29 pm

now that we can get 3 pass/fail credits for journal comments, does this change anyone's opinion about whether the time commitment is worth it for a secondary journal? given the credits + faculty relationship + fulfilling substantial writing requirement, i'm just wondering if it's more worth it now (even if the OCI/clerkship boost isn't so good).

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:22 pm

gchatbrah wrote:
Neal Patrick Harris wrote:
2014 wrote:A couple of things:

1. Tax anon - you should consider PMing me, I think I could be particularly helpful to you.

2. Journal People - I want to give you the benefit of the hard lesson many of my classmates learned. If any part of you wants to take on a journal position merely for the OCI benefit you need to think long and hard about that decision. I know people who did that and invariably regretted it and i know people who turned down journals and they invariably were glad they did. If you take a journal you should really have an interest in clerking or publishing (and have a better reason for wanting to publish than ego). If you are thinking corporate, think even longer and harder about taking a journal because to the extent you interview with any interviewer doing corporate, they will very rarely even notice the journal and more often than not will be more skeptical than impressed.

The one caveat to this is median people who wrote onto LR. I think that does give you a boost, but you should still think really hard about it because the work load for LR compared to secondaries is worse by a factor of like literally 10. You have to decide if you are willing to take your like 95% chance at a firm and turn it into 98% for that commitment.


Also the maroonbook is idiotic


Low hanging fruit, brah.


Seriously.
I've had attys THANK me for using the bluebook and I've been told there has been problems in the past with getting LR people to adjust.

Why take away the one guaranteed advantage of ruining your 2L year?

Neal Patrick Harris
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Should I put an interests section on my resume? I've heard strong arguments for both yes and no.


Only put it with things you're genuinely excited about and want to talk about.
You should be able to connect it with friends somehow ("i like chinese cuisine and I organize trips to chinatown all the time" shows you're social and take initiative).


Honestly, it's unnecessary if you have strong answers to the work stuff. But sometimes it's nice to just sit down and bro out about football with an interviewer rather than talk about the same old shit. Once you have the grades, the question becomes "do I like this person," so it's kind of fun to just relax and still find success.

Caveat--don't bullshit interests because if you get caught it will sink your interview. Interests should be things that make you light up and get excited--if you don't have those, then light up and get excited about your summer job, etc and you'll do just fine without it. The whole idea is to get your personality across in interviews.

Sorry, that was more ranty than most of my posts, but I hope it helps.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby skers » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:35 pm

Do an interests section.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:now that we can get 3 pass/fail credits for journal comments, does this change anyone's opinion about whether the time commitment is worth it for a secondary journal? given the credits + faculty relationship + fulfilling substantial writing requirement, i'm just wondering if it's more worth it now (even if the OCI/clerkship boost isn't so good).


It's definitely more worth it now than it was before in light of the 3 credits. Overall, it's still going to be dependent on your situation. Things to think about:

-are you someone that needs the very small OCI bump?
-will you pursue an executive board position to squeeze out any (albeit small) clerkship potential?
-are you on CJIL or Forum (seriously, there are differences)?

I'm happy to work out these things with you via PM.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:42 pm

Anyone know what the grade on cut off was? Or have any guesses?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:48 pm

skers wrote:Do an interests section.


Agree. I'm a V20 interviewer and Chi alum, and interest sections can help. If you have below median grades, K-JD, and no journal, can they get you V20? Of course not. But they help me connect with you.

Best case scenario, you list Chicago Bears and German culture as interests (just making those up), and we have a great conversation about it and I remember you fondly. Worst case scenario, you list Green Bay Packers and French culture, and I don't really care or ask about it and I remember you the same way I would have without an interests section. Anyways, it can't hurt you. Only way it hurts you is if you list something that I know a ton about, and I ask you, and you turn out not to really know anything about it.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby skers » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:53 pm

I've had several interviews where the interest section was at least the starting point, if not most of the interview. I kind of get the know the work/sell the work point generally, but unless you've worked in something like investment banking or consulting, your personality is going to carry the day more than anything.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:34 am

How would you recommend scheduling interviews with firms that are not coming to OCI, given summer internships and OCI schedules? Can you get reimbursed for travel that's not part of the OCI callback schedule?

And thanks for everyone's help on this thread!




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