UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:15 am

Neal Patrick Harris wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Neal Patrick Harris wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:High 176/urm/3-6 years substantial work experience. I'm bidding only NYC. Do I have a chance at V15? I'm specifically looking at S&C, Simpson Thacher, Skadden, Paul Weiss, Debevoise, Davis Polk, and Cleary. If I have a chance, how high should I bid these firms (top 10?, top 20?)? Thanks


Not that familiar with URM status but I'll give it a go.

What's your practice area? Please quote this post so I know who it is when you answer.


Thanks for your help. I'm really open to anything. I can see myself doing either corporate or litigation. I just want a good firm.


Great. Well. Some firms (PW) will have slightly lower standards for Corporate, because they are lit powerhouses. Deb is probably one of the easiest firms to get on your list, but all of them are pretty rough for a 176.

Like I said before, I'm not sure how URM status impacts things, but I'd focus other market-paying firms and have the firms you really like (do your research) sprinkled in.

As to how high you bid them, you should bid firms based on # of interview slots and how desirable you think the firm is to others in your class. You certainly shouldn't bid based on how subjectively desirable you consider the firm or how good of a chance you think you have (this should serve as a tie-breaker, but it shouldn't dictate whether something is in the top 10 or the top 20).

One friend got deb around 25 last year (others picked it up on add/drop). PW went much earlier (like 13?). S&C went around 17 I believe. Skadden went very quickly (top 10 at least). Another friend had DPW/Cleary around 14/15 and got them both.

Hope this helps!


Thank you so much. This is very helpful!

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
2014 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For someone who wants litigation, some good excuses for not being on a journal (besides the truth)?

Unlikely to come up but if it does just bring it back to the awesome experience you had this summer that solidified your research capabilities or the awesome 1L classes you took that were lit focused and inspired you. Selling lit isn't hard, no one second guesses that like they do corp.

Is this still true for those who are obviously above the grade-on cutoff?

The question is more likely to come up for you if they look at your transcript so you probably need a better thought out reason, but your grades will more than make up for that question mark I imagine.

Anonymous User wrote:High 176/urm/3-6 years substantial work experience. I'm bidding only NYC. Do I have a chance at V15? I'm specifically looking at S&C, Simpson Thacher, Skadden, Paul Weiss, Debevoise, Davis Polk, and Cleary. If I have a chance, how high should I bid these firms (top 10?, top 20?)? Thanks

You have a definite chance at all, and all should be bid by around 16-18 or so. You should interview with Cravath too, it's not out of play. I will help more with bid lists when more information is out on which firms and how many interview slots there are.


Neal Patrick Harris wrote:2014 seems like he knows his shit but I don't think Boies is as selective as he thinks.

Could very well be true, I'm mostly going off of who is there on the WWW list, how small their classes are (particularly non-NY ones) and how much they pay.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:09 am

178.9, targeting Chicago. I really don't want to go to New York, but I also really don't want to be unemployed. Given average interview skills, how seriously do I need to bid NY? Mass mail only? A couple bids? Or do I need to make NY firms a large part of my bidding strategy?

Thanks for doing this!

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:12 am

Can someone explain what no multiple interviews means? Does that mean we have to bid on each individual office for the same firm?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 20141023 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:21 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:10 am

this is ridic but where do I find the grade cutoffs for callbacks in prior years? is the Fall 2012 OCI Callback Report on Chalk the latest available?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:this is ridic but where do I find the grade cutoffs for callbacks in prior years? is the Fall 2012 OCI Callback Report on Chalk the latest available?


PWoo said the 2013 one would be up next week.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:39 am

is 179.5 definitely below grade-on cutoff? and if no LR and prefer litigation, is it stupid to completely avoid bidding NYC?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:54 pm

Mayer brown looks like the only chicago firm who has a fairly high minimum callback GPA. Is it worth bidding them if your a few tenths if a point below it?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:52 pm

What does LA look like for someone with a 178.0-178.5?

I know MTO/Irell are out, but what about GDC, OMM, Latham, etc.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:07 pm

On a phone so I can't quote well.

To the two 179ish posters you should be fine to bid basically all Chicago. As long as you can accept not getting invested in any one firm or firms you should be fine. To the extent you can't fill your list with Chi firms since there are only like 15 firms with substantial summer classes, you would be wise to toss in NYC V10s unless you have Cali ties. I'm happy to help with bidlists.

179.5 is ambiguous for LR. Last years cutoff was rumored at 179.6 I think and two people claimed on TLS to have 180.x averages but didn't do the writing comp. No way to know for sure where it will be this year.

Reg I'm relatively confident that all of those will callback someone maybe with the exception of some satellite offices with non-substantial summer programs. A lot of places toss out CBs and offers and can't pull any of us away from the 5-6 biggest Chi firms and the V10.

You can bid Mayer down to median notwithstanding the CB minimum that was likely a 1 year blip. I think it will be lower on next weeks info. Like all of the big players in the Chi market though you are competing with half the class so don't bank on them.

I don't know LA terribly well but I'm pretty sure you are fine basically everywhere outside of those 2. Irell might be worth a bid if your class is light on California gunners (ours had a ton) and/or if you write onto LR.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Crowing » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:19 pm

2014 wrote:On a phone so I can't quote well.

To the two 179ish posters you should be fine to bid basically all Chicago. As long as you can accept not getting invested in any one firm or firms you should be fine. To the extent you can't fill your list with Chi firms since there are only like 15 firms with substantial summer classes, you would be wise to toss in NYC V10s unless you have Cali ties. I'm happy to help with bidlists.

179.5 is ambiguous for LR. Last years cutoff was rumored at 179.6 I think and two people claimed on TLS to have 180.x averages but didn't do the writing comp. No way to know for sure where it will be this year.

Reg I'm relatively confident that all of those will callback someone maybe with the exception of some satellite offices with non-substantial summer programs. A lot of places toss out CBs and offers and can't pull any of us away from the 5-6 biggest Chi firms and the V10.

You can bid Mayer down to median notwithstanding the CB minimum that was likely a 1 year blip. I think it will be lower on next weeks info. Like all of the big players in the Chi market though you are competing with half the class so don't bank on them.

I don't know LA terribly well but I'm pretty sure you are fine basically everywhere outside of those 2. Irell might be worth a bid if your class is light on California gunners (ours had a ton) and/or if you write onto LR.


There are also people with great grades this year who did not do the write on. But I imagine that happens every year.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:06 pm

This may be obvious, but do we need to write cover letters for OCI?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This may be obvious, but do we need to write cover letters for OCI?


Nope! Not for most firms anyways. It'll say in the description if you need one. I think paul hastings is one of those firms.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:35 pm

Sent this in a PM. Reposting here in case it helps someone:

How bidding works:

Basically, Everyone who has Paul Weiss #1 fills the slots. Then everyone who has PW #2 fills the slots. And so on and so forth until there are no more slots.

Therefore, if there are more slots or it is a less-desirable firm, you can bid it lower and have a better chance of getting it compared to a firm with very few slots/very desirable firm.

It's a bit more complicated than that--like the firms you bid higher take up interview times which sometimes conflict and take precedence over firms you bid lower. But this is rare and you shouldn't really care about it.

Since you would prefer an interview with every firm, it's all about relativity and some guesswork. Most people get their top 5ish firms guaranteed. If there are firms that seem equally desirable and have the same number of slots (I think I saw Cleary/DPW this way), then put the firm you want more first. It's all about small decisions like that all the way down. If you bid well, you can make sure that you get your top 15--which is really all you can hope for. The people who miss firms are the ones who put K&E Chi around 12 or something like that. Read the old OCI threads to see where firms usually go (when someone says they missed it at a #, that's a good sign that you should bid that higher.

You have up to 50 bids. I used all of them just in case a firm didn't fill up for some reason. Didn't get much past 26.

If you can meet with attorneys or otherwise do your research and rule a firm toward the top out, that means every firm after it moves up one--and that's huge. So figuring out stuff like that is pretty helpful.

Add/drop is important. I'll do a post ITT later to explain. Anyone is free to PM me with questions as always.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:06 am

Great advice above.

FYI I ended up with like 26 interviews through lottery which was on the slightly high end but part of it was filling 28-50 on my bid list with NY firms alphabetically and getting a few and putting WLRK at 50 since it doesn't fill.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:26 am

2014 wrote:Great advice above.

FYI I ended up with like 26 interviews through lottery which was on the slightly high end but part of it was filling 28-50 on my bid list with NY firms alphabetically and getting a few and putting WLRK at 50
since it doesn't fill.



Wow, which NY firms went so late? I filled my 25-50 with NY and had 1 interview out of all of them.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:09 pm

Like Gunderson, Bickel and one more.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby bearsfan23 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:57 pm

How much attention/value should we place on the hiring requirements firms list in their OCI profile. For instance, WilmerHale "requires" Top 15% of the class, and I've seen a bunch say moot court/law journal preferred?

Is this something that should affect our bidding, i.e. if a firm says they require a 178, don't bid on it if your at a 177.x. Or are these requirements pretty much meaningless?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Pulsar » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:14 pm

I think it varies but a lot of those "top 10%" assertions you see are bullshit if I remember rightly.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:11 pm

Before Spring I was really happy with my grades, mostly 179-183, and a couple 177s. Spring was basically the same but I got one very low outlier (probably the lowest grade in the class). My final average still ended up at 178.6, so it didn't exactly ruin my life. But I'm wondering if I need a plan to address this at OCI, and if so, what that plan should be? Has anyone else had this experience? Does this make me look different from someone who had all grades in the 177-179 range, or am in the same position as other 178ers?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:18 pm

Pay somewhere close to no attention to stated GPA reqs. You will see from the CB minimums that basically all firms go down to medianish or lower for the right people.


Re: outliers. Fortunately at a glance your transcript will scream 180ish, unfortunately if the interviewer looks at it while you are there (they usually don't in my experience) it's all but certain to come up. Definitely have a reason that accepts responsibility without dwelling on it (consider a self-deprecating joke or something) and immediately move the focus to your overwhelming good performance elsewhere. If they don't bring it up, count yourself lucky and don't force the issue. Ultimately I doubt it poses any problems and you will be surprised how little anyone cares. I had a high outlier that came up maybe twice the whole interview process.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:30 pm

To the 179 posters. I had essentially the same GPA last year. Bid at least some NY. You never know what will happen and OCI can be weird, especially since Chicago can be a tough market to crack. If it comes down between striking out and working in NY, I don't think that's a particularly hard decision. I think 2014 is very on with the whole 'no real cut-offs' thing for essentially every firm, but I don't think you should take that to get too comfortable.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Before Spring I was really happy with my grades, mostly 179-183, and a couple 177s. Spring was basically the same but I got one very low outlier (probably the lowest grade in the class). My final average still ended up at 178.6, so it didn't exactly ruin my life. But I'm wondering if I need a plan to address this at OCI, and if so, what that plan should be? Has anyone else had this experience? Does this make me look different from someone who had all grades in the 177-179 range, or am in the same position as other 178ers?


I had an outlier that came up ONCE the entire OCI process at a callback ("I see you sucked in property too"). After I explained why the grade happened, accepted responsibility, and showed that I learned from it, things were fine. Make sure you can do those things but don't expect to ever talk about it.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To the 179 posters. I had essentially the same GPA last year. Bid at least some NY. You never know what will happen and OCI can be weird, especially since Chicago can be a tough market to crack. If it comes down between striking out and working in NY, I don't think that's a particularly hard decision. I think 2014 is very on with the whole 'no real cut-offs' thing for essentially every firm, but I don't think you should take that to get too comfortable.


If you have a 179 you can bid NY comfortably at every firm but WLRK.
If you're not an interviewer, of course include a few safeties, but you can generally bid the firms that require 178 grades lower than the ones that are safeties (just because the good grades are bidding it as a safety and the bad grades are bidding it as well).




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