UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

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Mal Reynolds
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:Holy shit, which school's EIP is that? That is extremely useful. It is actually infinitely more useful than knowing that one (or more) people with over a 182 GPA received callbacks at almost any firm which may or may not have turned into offers.


CLS.


Damn who wants to send this to paul woo.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:Holy shit, which school's EIP is that? That is extremely useful. It is actually infinitely more useful than knowing that one (or more) people with over a 182 GPA received callbacks at almost any firm which may or may not have turned into offers.


CLS.


They are so much cooler than us.

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beepboopbeep
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby beepboopbeep » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:Holy shit, which school's EIP is that? That is extremely useful. It is actually infinitely more useful than knowing that one (or more) people with over a 182 GPA received callbacks at almost any firm which may or may not have turned into offers.


CLS.


They are so much cooler than us.


Brave anon, CLS infiltrator scum.

/s

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:11 am

When do we think elective grades are coming out?

Mal Reynolds
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:When do we think elective grades are coming out?


Is this serious? DG literally sent an email yesterday covering every possible question about this topic.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:46 pm

Thought I'd help out with some advice about OCI. I'll do a couple of these in my spare time. Feel free to request a topic

How the actual program works:
Basically, everyone is in booth and most student sit downstairs on the main floor at the various tables/chairs down there. There will also be tables/chairs set up upstairs right outside--I tried to stay away from up there but some people liked it. People hang out between interviews, research firms, share stories, etc. Some people just go home between interviews and think it's nice to get away from it all--I totally get that, but I hung around. It was nice to make jokes and talk to people and get your mind off of how stressful the whole situation is. I think it helped me get in a "social" mindset where I was walking into my interview active instead of tired/stressed (everyone is one of those two things at some point throughout the process). There are food options there and there are bathrooms on the main floor and the lower floor so you can avoid the top floor (in case you wanted to avoid being in a bathroom with a possible interviewer). Try not to answer phone calls from random numbers inside. Walk outside. If you're big on people knowing you have callbacks they will get the hint that you're stepping out, but if you answer a call inside everyone will think you're a douche. As much as it seems like everyone is getting callbacks and you can share, don't. People will act like they are getting tons of offers, but you still shouldn't overshare because it's usually exaggerated and you don't want to make people feel bad. There are also people who bid slower markets who will start FREAKING OUT when all of the NY people have callbacks lined up. Sometimes when you whisper good news to a friend, they will react positively (give you a high five or something) and then everyone else will think you're a showboater. Just avoid talking about it. Avoid messy foods when eating. Have copies of all your stuff printed early because there's generally a line. If you print early in the morning and leave yourself enough time you should be fine. Let people with upcoming interviews in front of you. Don't accidentally print too many transcripts and forget one at the printer (I know multiple people who did this). If you're at regents, make sure you delete your transcript out of the downloads folder--I heard people who live there will look through them. Basically, try not to be a dick and avoid rubbing anyone the wrong way. Stressful situations cause people to take offense much easier and sometimes it will show someone's true colors if they are rude or competitive with people.

Future topics:
Dress
Bidding & Grades
Common Interview Questions & Answers
Callbacks
Firm Swag
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby UnicornHunter » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thought I'd help out with some advice about OCI. I'll do a couple of these in my spare time. Feel free to request a topic

How the actual program works:
Basically, everyone is in booth and most student sit downstairs on the main floor at the various tables/chairs down there. There will also be tables/chairs set up upstairs right outside--I tried to stay away from up there but some people liked it. People hang out between interviews, research firms, share stories, etc. Some people just go home between interviews and think it's nice to get away from it all--I totally get that, but I hung around. It was nice to make jokes and talk to people and get your mind off of how stressful the whole situation is. I think it helped me get in a "social" mindset where I was walking into my interview active instead of tired/stressed (everyone is one of those two things at some point throughout the process). There are food options there and there are bathrooms on the main floor and the lower floor so you can avoid the top floor (in case you wanted to avoid being in a bathroom with a possible interviewer). Try not to answer phone calls from random numbers inside. Walk outside. If you're big on people knowing you have callbacks they will get the hint that you're stepping out, but if you answer a call inside everyone will think you're a douche. As much as it seems like everyone is getting callbacks and you can share, don't. People will act like they are getting tons of offers, but you still shouldn't overshare because it's usually exaggerated and you don't want to make people feel bad. There are also people who bid slower markets who will start FREAKING OUT when all of the NY people have callbacks lined up. Sometimes when you whisper good news to a friend, they will react positively (give you a high five or something) and then everyone else will think you're a showboater. Just avoid talking about it. Avoid messy foods when eating. Have copies of all your stuff printed early because there's generally a line. If you print early in the morning and leave yourself enough time you should be fine. Let people with upcoming interviews in front of you. Don't accidentally print too many transcripts and forget one at the printer (I know multiple people who did this). If you're at regents, make sure you delete your transcript out of the downloads folder--I heard people who live there will look through them. Basically, try not to be a dick and avoid rubbing anyone the wrong day. Stressful situations cause people to take offense much easier and sometimes it will show someone's true colors if they are rude or competitive with people.

Future topics:
Dress
Bidding & Grades
Common Interview Questions & Answers
Callbacks
Firm Swag


Thank you for doing this.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:55 am

Dress:

Dress is pretty easy for men and there's lots of great advice on this site. Basic advice:

The important thing isn't to be flashy. The point is for your clothing is to not be a point of contention. Great clothes won't really help you, but dressing like an adult will help with your overall impression. Obviously you can depart from this advice and do fine, but this is what I think is the safest route.

Suit: Navy or charcoal. Have normal lapels and nothing too busy. Doesn't have to be a super nice suit--just make sure it's well-tailored so it doesn't look like you have your dad's suit on. No pocket square.

Shirt: White or blue. Normal point collar.

Tie: Not skinny. I prefer silk. Red or blue (including maroon or navy) with a "soft pattern" if you choose to have a pattern at all. Google "the tie bar"--they are cheap and look great. I like http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp?pn=17040 and http://www.thetiebar.com/order_page.asp?pn=27237 IMO tie bars look bad.

Pants: If pleats, cuff them. If no pleats, up to you (I prefer no pleats).

Shoes: You don't need allen edmonds park avenues, but a black cap-toed oxford that's not too shiny works just fine.

Belt: Try to match your shoes as much as possible. If you have shiny shoes, have a shiny belt. Don't buy brown belts off memory--it's hard to make them match.

Socks: Dark navy or charcoal depending on the color of your suit. Black is fine, too.


There were people dressed in some pretty ridiculous stuff who got offers at wonderful firms, but I know it's hard to keep from over-preparing. Don't feel like you have to go out and buy clothes to match this advice, but I hope it helps you feel confident about what you're wearing heading into the interview.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:15 am

If you're going to be at Booth for a while make sure to bring your cell phone charger. At least in 2012 basically nobody could get a signal in the building, which drains your battery very quickly.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:09 am

Bidding:

There has been a lot of advice w/r/t grades ITT so far, and we can respond individually to bidlists, so I'm going to talk about bidding advice that I didn't get when I was going into OCI.

When a firm says "no multiple interviews" OCS tells you that you can bid your preferred office higher up, and then bid the other office toward the bottom. When you get to your interview, the OCS story goes, you can interview once for both firms. This isn't true. The examples for me were Latham and Jones Day (interviewed with one NY and one Chi office). Both times I had to tell the interviewer that I was interviewing for both offices and they seemed surprised and wrote it down. Both times I got a callback for just one office. With these firms, it really seems like you have to just pick one. I never accepted the callbacks with these firms so I may be wrong here.

Now, there are also interviews where you can interview twice for different offices. I interviewed with two of Kirkland/Skadden/Sidley this way, and they operate slightly differently but the takeaway is the same: this makes it harder to get an offer. One firm waited until my other screener results were in to make sure I got a callback with both offices before extending a callback at either office (meaning I had to wait until the Chicago results, rather than getting the NY callback with the rest of our school)--this firm told me that I could do my callback with their Chicago office and if I got an offer, I could split the summer with NY or just go to NY if I wanted. The other firm extended their NY callback at the regular time (which I did very early), but then waited until I got my Chicago OFFER to get my NY offer. They told me the reason for this was they wanted to make sure they could offer me at both offices. This means that A) you have to wait longer for results (generally NY offices would come way earlier) and B) you are double evaluated so it's harder to get a single offer because they make sure that both offices like you at either the screener or the callback stage. I had the crazy impression that this would make it easier to get these firms--that if one office didn't like me I could always get an offer at the other. This isn't correct. They both have to like you. What does this mean? Well, NY is generally an easier market, so if you really want a firm regardless of location it may make more sense to just apply to the NY office. If you want more shots at firms in general, remember that getting a screener with a NY and Chi office of a firm may require two top-10 bids. Bid another firm instead of a second office.

Others feel free to chime in if their results differed--but from talking to my friends, it seemed like this was the case with most firms.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:33 am

It was my impression that firms were easier to pick up off of add/drop in the second week of OCI. If rising 2Ls think it would be valuable to know which firms were here during the second week last year (so you can bid them lower), let me know and I'll share as much as I can. It's worth pointing out, though, that these firms won't necessarily have the same interview schedule as last year.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:50 pm

Can anyone speak about scheduling as far as the callback process? I know you're supposed to schedule callbacks right away. Do callbacks go out before OCI is over? And would you schedule one on a day you might have screeners? I'm wondering what impact our relatively late OCI has on the whole process.

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2014
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone speak about scheduling as far as the callback process? I know you're supposed to schedule callbacks right away. Do callbacks go out before OCI is over? And would you schedule one on a day you might have screeners? I'm wondering what impact our relatively late OCI has on the whole process.

CBs for New York go out day of or next day invariably. Chicago is within a weekish but way more variable. You should not schedule CBs for the two weeks of OCI out of town (unless you have a day with literally no screeners but even then you could pick one or more up). You can schedule a Chicago one, but I would encourage you to do it in an afternoon with no conflicts so you aren't stress about running late into afternoon screeners.

You should schedule them ASAP after our OCI but a couple of things. If you get the sense you are crushing it, leave space for preferred firms in the first two weeks. You don't want to push firms you are seriously considering to week 3 and schedule ones you aren't in week 1-2. To the extent you are performing ~normally, just schedule everything as soon as they will let you.

Fortunately we are a good enough school that they save spots for us, but being late does matter. There are some firms that will be full or have limited spots but it is what it is. In the end it might close some doors, but averages say that at least one door will be open for 90% of you who want it, so take solace in that.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:02 am

2014 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone speak about scheduling as far as the callback process? I know you're supposed to schedule callbacks right away. Do callbacks go out before OCI is over? And would you schedule one on a day you might have screeners? I'm wondering what impact our relatively late OCI has on the whole process.

CBs for New York go out day of or next day invariably. Chicago is within a weekish but way more variable. You should not schedule CBs for the two weeks of OCI out of town (unless you have a day with literally no screeners but even then you could pick one or more up). You can schedule a Chicago one, but I would encourage you to do it in an afternoon with no conflicts so you aren't stress about running late into afternoon screeners.

You should schedule them ASAP after our OCI but a couple of things. If you get the sense you are crushing it, leave space for preferred firms in the first two weeks. You don't want to push firms you are seriously considering to week 3 and schedule ones you aren't in week 1-2. To the extent you are performing ~normally, just schedule everything as soon as they will let you.

Fortunately we are a good enough school that they save spots for us, but being late does matter. There are some firms that will be full or have limited spots but it is what it is. In the end it might close some doors, but averages say that at least one door will be open for 90% of you who want it, so take solace in that.



Basically this.

Just thought I'd add that you can schedule callbacks during OCI if you have a day off. After OCI, try to line them up so you can spend a whole week in your target market (makes reimbursement way easier + less traveling). It's also worth noting that you shouldn't schedule two in one day unless you have to. Miserable + you generally have to call one off early to make the other on time.

Do lunches if you can. They're generally with random people so you get a truer sense of the firm (at least in my experience). Generally the interviewers were all smiles and then associates at lunch would be real with you. It's also a free, nice lunch and if the person likes you they can put in a good word for you with the hiring committee (one hiring partner told me an associate did this when I got the offer).

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone speak about scheduling as far as the callback process? I know you're supposed to schedule callbacks right away. Do callbacks go out before OCI is over? And would you schedule one on a day you might have screeners? I'm wondering what impact our relatively late OCI has on the whole process.


The advice is absolutely credited. I will add that your scheduling strategy should somewhat depend on how successful OCI is going. I assumed I would do pretty well (LR + WE), and assigned each week after OCI to a different geography for CBs (with my most preferred market first). I ended up snagging around 25 CBs in 4 markets; if I had not have blocked out weeks, I would have been MISERABLE.

Also, be cognizant if you're not NY (I wasn't). Those CBs may come later, so don't hastily schedule a Chicago-->LA-->SF trip only to find out you have multiple others in those markets to schedule.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Neal Patrick Harris » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:23 am

WheninLaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone speak about scheduling as far as the callback process? I know you're supposed to schedule callbacks right away. Do callbacks go out before OCI is over? And would you schedule one on a day you might have screeners? I'm wondering what impact our relatively late OCI has on the whole process.


The advice is absolutely credited. I will add that your scheduling strategy should somewhat depend on how successful OCI is going. I assumed I would do pretty well (LR + WE), and assigned each week after OCI to a different geography for CBs (with my most preferred market first). I ended up snagging around 25 CBs in 4 markets; if I had not have blocked out weeks, I would have been MISERABLE.

Also, be cognizant if you're not NY (I wasn't). Those CBs may come later, so don't hastily schedule a Chicago-->LA-->SF trip only to find out you have multiple others in those markets to schedule.


EDIT: I know you are in a slow market and possibly didn't have enough time to cancel your screeners, but I would recommend that rising 2Ls who bid NY not try to get as many callbacks as they can, and in my experience cancelling for classmates is good.
Last edited by Neal Patrick Harris on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

Pulsar
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Pulsar » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:43 am

To add to the scheduling stuff: if you have the option, don't schedule the callback you care most about first imo. Put it second, so you can get a lower-risk run in first and get some mistakes out of the way.

I liked the post on dress at 9:15 am below. A few comments are that 1) if you are male, learn how to tie a tie or get somebody who knows what they are doing to do it for you, 2) I disagree with the idea that all skinny ties are bad. Some of the medium-width "skinny" ties (ex: 3 inches instead of 3.5 inches) are ok and even advisable if you are of slim build, and 3) thetiebar.com is a website from which you can buy quality but cheap ties. A "tie bar" (which I agree is unnecessary, though it's probably harmless) is a little metal clip thingy that holds your tie in place. Just thought I'd distinguish between the two, since the post above might seem confusing.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:51 am

Pulsar wrote:To add to the scheduling stuff: if you have the option, don't schedule the callback you care most about first imo. Put it second, so you can get a lower-risk run in first and get some mistakes out of the way.

I liked the post on dress at 9:15 am below. A few comments are that 1) if you are male, learn how to tie a tie or get somebody who knows what they are doing to do it for you, 2) I disagree with the idea that all skinny ties are bad. Some of the medium-width "skinny" ties (ex: 3 inches instead of 3.5 inches) are ok and even advisable if you are of slim build, and 3) thetiebar.com is a website from which you can buy quality but cheap ties. A "tie bar" (which I agree is unnecessary, though it's probably harmless) is a little metal clip thingy that holds your tie in place. Just thought I'd distinguish between the two, since the post above might seem confusing.


Previous poster. Agree with everything you said.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:42 am

At the risk of having the TLS wolves unleashed on me, I'd like to ask about culture. I like to be friendly and socialize with my co-workers, but I am definitely on the more introverted side. As such, I would like to avoid any "work hard, play hard", fratty environments. Are there any firms that have this reputation that I should know about? Or does it basically come down to which practice group you are assigned to, and firms will offer a variety of cultures that way? How do I ask about this delicately without looking like a douche or a hermit?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:36 am

Neal Patrick Harris wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone speak about scheduling as far as the callback process? I know you're supposed to schedule callbacks right away. Do callbacks go out before OCI is over? And would you schedule one on a day you might have screeners? I'm wondering what impact our relatively late OCI has on the whole process.


The advice is absolutely credited. I will add that your scheduling strategy should somewhat depend on how successful OCI is going. I assumed I would do pretty well (LR + WE), and assigned each week after OCI to a different geography for CBs (with my most preferred market first). I ended up snagging around 25 CBs in 4 markets; if I had not have blocked out weeks, I would have been MISERABLE.

Also, be cognizant if you're not NY (I wasn't). Those CBs may come later, so don't hastily schedule a Chicago-->LA-->SF trip only to find out you have multiple others in those markets to schedule.


EDIT: I know you are in a slow market and possibly didn't have enough time to cancel your screeners, but I would recommend that rising 2Ls who bid NY not try to get as many callbacks as they can, and in my experience cancelling for classmates is good.


I completely agree, which is why I did my target market first. The moment I got my first offer, I cancelled all but 5 CBs.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:47 pm

This is probably a silly question... but I'm assuming we shouldn't start mass mailing until we have all our grades?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At the risk of having the TLS wolves unleashed on me, I'd like to ask about culture. I like to be friendly and socialize with my co-workers, but I am definitely on the more introverted side. As such, I would like to avoid any "work hard, play hard", fratty environments. Are there any firms that have this reputation that I should know about? Or does it basically come down to which practice group you are assigned to, and firms will offer a variety of cultures that way? How do I ask about this delicately without looking like a douche or a hermit?

Skadden and Latham have this reputation but I think it's overblown. In my experience big law attorneys at the firms that the vast majority of us end up at are pretty much slammed with work and the environment is more of a "work hard, work hard" followed by a little sleep and doing it again. I haven't actually heard of a firm that forces people to be social, especially after billing a 14 hour day.

Anonymous User wrote:This is probably a silly question... but I'm assuming we shouldn't start mass mailing until we have all our grades?

You should mass mail until you have an offer. If you are at like a 181 average and competent at interviewing you MIGHT be able to convince me otherwise, but it's too low cost/high risk not to mass mail to be safe.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:59 pm

2014 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At the risk of having the TLS wolves unleashed on me, I'd like to ask about culture. I like to be friendly and socialize with my co-workers, but I am definitely on the more introverted side. As such, I would like to avoid any "work hard, play hard", fratty environments. Are there any firms that have this reputation that I should know about? Or does it basically come down to which practice group you are assigned to, and firms will offer a variety of cultures that way? How do I ask about this delicately without looking like a douche or a hermit?

Skadden and Latham have this reputation but I think it's overblown. In my experience big law attorneys at the firms that the vast majority of us end up at are pretty much slammed with work and the environment is more of a "work hard, work hard" followed by a little sleep and doing it again. I haven't actually heard of a firm that forces people to be social, especially after billing a 14 hour day.

Anonymous User wrote:This is probably a silly question... but I'm assuming we shouldn't start mass mailing until we have all our grades?

You should mass mail until you have an offer. If you are at like a 181 average and competent at interviewing you MIGHT be able to convince me otherwise, but it's too low cost/high risk not to mass mail to be safe.

Sorry I wan't clear-what I meant is we should wait until we have all our grades because we should wait until we have a complete transcript to send, right? Most of the employers I'm interested in aren't coming to OCI, so I'm a bit anxious and will definitely be mass mailing.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Crowing » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
2014 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At the risk of having the TLS wolves unleashed on me, I'd like to ask about culture. I like to be friendly and socialize with my co-workers, but I am definitely on the more introverted side. As such, I would like to avoid any "work hard, play hard", fratty environments. Are there any firms that have this reputation that I should know about? Or does it basically come down to which practice group you are assigned to, and firms will offer a variety of cultures that way? How do I ask about this delicately without looking like a douche or a hermit?

Skadden and Latham have this reputation but I think it's overblown. In my experience big law attorneys at the firms that the vast majority of us end up at are pretty much slammed with work and the environment is more of a "work hard, work hard" followed by a little sleep and doing it again. I haven't actually heard of a firm that forces people to be social, especially after billing a 14 hour day.

Anonymous User wrote:This is probably a silly question... but I'm assuming we shouldn't start mass mailing until we have all our grades?

You should mass mail until you have an offer. If you are at like a 181 average and competent at interviewing you MIGHT be able to convince me otherwise, but it's too low cost/high risk not to mass mail to be safe.

Sorry I wan't clear-what I meant is we should wait until we have all our grades because we should wait until we have a complete transcript to send, right? Most of the employers I'm interested in aren't coming to OCI, so I'm a bit anxious and will definitely be mass mailing.


OCS tells us we should wait until late July for firms to start wrapping up their current summer programs. IDK how credited that is though.

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2014
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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:00 pm

Yes wait until you have all your grades and then send ASAP. No benefit to waiting till end of July imo.




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