UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:43 pm

I was not nearly the kind of go-getter to calculate my percentiles, but mine was pretty low in any event. Ended up with a 177. No idea if that's at all representative.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was not nearly the kind of go-getter to calculate my percentiles, but mine was pretty low in any event. Ended up with a 177. No idea if that's at all representative.


Slightly below median in LRW, snagged a 178.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:41 pm

Thanks all. I feel better now. I'd be happy, all said and done, with a 176 and ecstatic with a 177. I was expecting much worse.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:28 am

So I think I'll have at least a 178 in LRW. Hopefully a little higher since I got the second highest grade on my memo and median on my brief. If spring quarter goes anything like the last two quarters I'll probably be 177-178, although maybe a little higher.

Assuming 177-178 does anyone have general advice for bidding? I would prefer not NYC and rather LA and Chicago. But I'll likely do primarily NYC and either one of LA or Chicago as a second option. I'll also be mass mailing a few markets to where I plausibly have ties. I don't really care about vault firm rank and I'll mostly just be bidding wherever have good sized classes and solid transitional work if I can be that picky.

Appreciate any advice.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:So I think I'll have at least a 178 in LRW. Hopefully a little higher since I got the second highest grade on my memo and median on my brief. If spring quarter goes anything like the last two quarters I'll probably be 177-178, although maybe a little higher.

Assuming 177-178 does anyone have general advice for bidding? I would prefer not NYC and rather LA and Chicago. But I'll likely do primarily NYC and either one of LA or Chicago as a second option. I'll also be mass mailing a few markets to where I plausibly have ties. I don't really care about vault firm rank and I'll mostly just be bidding wherever have good sized classes and solid transitional work if I can be that picky.

Appreciate any advice.


Sounds more like 179-180 for LRW. Good job. First, I'd say to hold off on these types of questions until spring grades come out. They are such a significant part of your average that any advice might be worthless in a month. That doesn't mean you shouldn't mass mail anyways (you should).

People did really well in LA this year. Regardless, I'd still consider it, along with Chicago, as a market you should not count on sans LR-type grades. Assuming around median, I would do NY + Chicago or NY + LA. Chicago/LA is simply too risky.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:So I think I'll have at least a 178 in LRW. Hopefully a little higher since I got the second highest grade on my memo and median on my brief. If spring quarter goes anything like the last two quarters I'll probably be 177-178, although maybe a little higher.

Assuming 177-178 does anyone have general advice for bidding? I would prefer not NYC and rather LA and Chicago. But I'll likely do primarily NYC and either one of LA or Chicago as a second option. I'll also be mass mailing a few markets to where I plausibly have ties. I don't really care about vault firm rank and I'll mostly just be bidding wherever have good sized classes and solid transitional work if I can be that picky.

Appreciate any advice.


If your plan is to do primarily NYC and one of LA/Chicago, that's a solid plan.

Corporate work is much bigger in NY, and you can snag a v10 that does solid corporate work with your grades (think STB, S&C, K&E, etc.). You can then throw in a few Chicago firms. I wouldn't split between three markets--it's MUCH easier if you can tell interviewers that you're bidding NY and a few firms in Chicago, because your primary goal is working at the best corporate firms and the Chicago market is small for high-level corporate work (say this gracefully, of course--it helps if you've met with people at the firms who have said something like this, because then you show you did your hw, etc.). Though you don't care about vault rank (smart man), it's generally a proxy for size of summer class, which helps with the callbacks if you are over their grade cutoff (you are). Top NY firms call back many more people than middle-market NY firms, so once you're above the cutoff it's actually not a terrible idea to bid the "more selective" firms (still include some safeties, but this is my experience). One thing to note is that the top corporate firms want someone knowledgeable in the subject--so learn all you can so you can give a convincing answer for "why corporate work" in an interview.

Even if you don't land your reaches in Chicago, you will likely be at a great firm in NY (they are much less grade conscious when compared to Chicago) from which you can lateral after a few years.

Make sure you find someone at each firm (whether from cold-emailing alum at the firm, or using the who worked where list) and talk to them, especially at the few Chicago firms you apply to. If their personality doesn't match up with yours, it's not worth a bid (ex: I wouldn't have gotten a Mayer callback if my life depended on it). This is good for everyone to do, but it's especially important if you're only targeting a few firms in the Chicago market.

To everyone: if you post a "PM me" message in the thread, I will send you a message and I'm happy to help people with interviewing, bidlists, contacting attorneys, and whatever else you might want to know. Always looking to give back.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:33 am

So what's so bad about the NY firms mentioned a few pages ago that don't come to OCI? Assume you don't care about prestige. Firms like Cadwalder seem to have a bad reputation for some reason among law students. Is this just law student prestige obsession or are there real reasons to avoid those firms?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Crowing » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:29 am

Around when should we be expecting grades?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:23 pm

Looks like July 11th last year.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=140165&start=2200

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:41 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:Looks like July 11th last year.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=140165&start=2200


Believe July 11th was for electives. "Real" grades came out a few days later.

Note - our grades were turned in late (which is pretty lol), so YMMV.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby skers » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So I think I'll have at least a 178 in LRW. Hopefully a little higher since I got the second highest grade on my memo and median on my brief. If spring quarter goes anything like the last two quarters I'll probably be 177-178, although maybe a little higher.

Assuming 177-178 does anyone have general advice for bidding? I would prefer not NYC and rather LA and Chicago. But I'll likely do primarily NYC and either one of LA or Chicago as a second option. I'll also be mass mailing a few markets to where I plausibly have ties. I don't really care about vault firm rank and I'll mostly just be bidding wherever have good sized classes and solid transitional work if I can be that picky.

Appreciate any advice.


If your plan is to do primarily NYC and one of LA/Chicago, that's a solid plan.

Corporate work is much bigger in NY, and you can snag a v10 that does solid corporate work with your grades (think STB, S&C, K&E, etc.). You can then throw in a few Chicago firms. I wouldn't split between three markets--it's MUCH easier if you can tell interviewers that you're bidding NY and a few firms in Chicago, because your primary goal is working at the best corporate firms and the Chicago market is small for high-level corporate work (say this gracefully, of course--it helps if you've met with people at the firms who have said something like this, because then you show you did your hw, etc.). Though you don't care about vault rank (smart man), it's generally a proxy for size of summer class, which helps with the callbacks if you are over their grade cutoff (you are). Top NY firms call back many more people than middle-market NY firms, so once you're above the cutoff it's actually not a terrible idea to bid the "more selective" firms (still include some safeties, but this is my experience). One thing to note is that the top corporate firms want someone knowledgeable in the subject--so learn all you can so you can give a convincing answer for "why corporate work" in an interview.

Even if you don't land your reaches in Chicago, you will likely be at a great firm in NY (they are much less grade conscious when compared to Chicago) from which you can lateral after a few years.

Make sure you find someone at each firm (whether from cold-emailing alum at the firm, or using the who worked where list) and talk to them, especially at the few Chicago firms you apply to. If their personality doesn't match up with yours, it's not worth a bid (ex: I wouldn't have gotten a Mayer callback if my life depended on it). This is good for everyone to do, but it's especially important if you're only targeting a few firms in the Chicago market.

To everyone: if you post a "PM me" message in the thread, I will send you a message and I'm happy to help people with interviewing, bidlists, contacting attorneys, and whatever else you might want to know. Always looking to give back.


Yeah, all of this is dead on. Look. You're going to have a ton of time to be a neurotic law student about the whole process and it's pretty hard to judge anything right now without grades. That said, your GPA really isn't that big of a game-changer and all the stuff you hear about fit is actually the biggest part of the process. You'd really be shocked at how low the yield of the big hitters in NYC really is when it comes to offers. Feel free to PM me for advice or whatever.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:27 pm

How valuable are secondary journals in the OCI/job search process? I'm debating whether to do the writing competition and I figure I pretty much have zero shot at law review, but I might be able to put together a good enough effort to get on one of the other ones? I'm interested in litigation, and expect to have somewhere around median grades fwiw

From your guys' experience, is a secondary journal worth it?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So what's so bad about the NY firms mentioned a few pages ago that don't come to OCI? Assume you don't care about prestige. Firms like Cadwalder seem to have a bad reputation for some reason among law students. Is this just law student prestige obsession or are there real reasons to avoid those firms?


Akin, Cadwalader, and White and Case are three that come to mind.

Cadwalader has the "sweatshop" reputation, but I'm not sure how much I buy that (esp in comparison to most NY firms).

Akin Gump is a fantastic firm that does some solid work--especially bankruptcy work--top notch. White & Case does some really cool cross-border work.

I wouldn't rule any of them out--it's just that most people they call back via mass mailing have offers at "better" firms in NY. If you have the time, definitely mass-mail them.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So what's so bad about the NY firms mentioned a few pages ago that don't come to OCI? Assume you don't care about prestige. Firms like Cadwalder seem to have a bad reputation for some reason among law students. Is this just law student prestige obsession or are there real reasons to avoid those firms?


Akin, Cadwalader, and White and Case are three that come to mind.

Cadwalader has the "sweatshop" reputation, but I'm not sure how much I buy that (esp in comparison to most NY firms).

Akin Gump is a fantastic firm that does some solid work--especially bankruptcy work--top notch. White & Case does some really cool cross-border work.

I wouldn't rule any of them out--it's just that most people they call back via mass mailing have offers at "better" firms in NY. If you have the time, definitely mass-mail them.

Cadwalader comes to OCI

Re: Secondary journals, most people I know who did one are glad they did to the extent they want to do lit with their careers and regret it to the extent they want to do corporate. I would expand that more to say if you want to clerk and don't have grades for LR, secondary journals have definite value. If you want to do lit and don't want to clerk (you should probably want to clerk if you want to do lit fyi) the value is less.

If you are dead set on Corporate or some niche group like Tax, trusts and estates, exec comp, etc, secondary journals (and probably LR honestly) is a lot of effort for minimal gain.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby skers » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:54 pm

I'm guessing you're worried about doing the writing comp. I don't know how much value journals add, but I wouldn't want to raise any questions at the interview stage. If you're comfortable with your grades, I wouldn't worry about it. Otherwise, sucks to be you, but power through it.
Last edited by skers on Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:01 pm

Right now I'm below median, maybe bottom third or fourth. I'm dead set on corporate. I have zero interest in a journal, but I worry I will kick myself for not giving it a shot if I strike out.

Is forgoing the writing competition justifiable in my case?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Right now I'm below median, maybe bottom third or fourth. I'm dead set on corporate. I have zero interest in a journal, but I worry I will kick myself for not giving it a shot if I strike out.

Is forgoing the writing competition justifiable in my case?


In the future, you can share your grades if you're anonymous. Also, if you write on to LR with low low grades, it won't convince firms that have higher cutoffs to hire you, but it may convince less selective firms to take you over someone with comparable grades. I'd say that you should do it, if only for what you stated--you'll kick yourself if you strike out and didn't try.

I know it sucks after getting pummeled for all of spring quarter guys, I didn't do the writing comp for that reason. But sometimes it makes sense. If you're willing to risk it more power to you.. but if not it's time to buckle up and suffer for only two more weeks.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:How valuable are secondary journals in the OCI/job search process? I'm debating whether to do the writing competition and I figure I pretty much have zero shot at law review, but I might be able to put together a good enough effort to get on one of the other ones? I'm interested in litigation, and expect to have somewhere around median grades fwiw

From your guys' experience, is a secondary journal worth it?


I'll probably answer this differently than most, but I don't think secondary journals are worth it. Then again, it depends on how much you value your free time and what you enjoy doing. I think the OCI help is marginal at best, and almost non-existent for Clerkships unless/until you have a impressive sounding board position.

I have no idea how firms evaluate someone on LR with median grades. In a few OCI interviews I was asked point-blank if I wrote-on or graded-on. There's clearly a few people out there that fit the bill (though I suspect most write-on candidates have decent grades) and it would be cool to hear their insight.

If you do a secondary, pick Legal Forum. They publish less.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 2014 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:Right now I'm below median, maybe bottom third or fourth. I'm dead set on corporate. I have zero interest in a journal, but I worry I will kick myself for not giving it a shot if I strike out.

Is forgoing the writing competition justifiable in my case?

Worth doing writing comp to see if you get LR, not worth accepting a secondary, even in your case and even if you feel like you put in all that writing comp work and you might as well.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:23 am

x
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:36 am

Deleted.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:33 am

I wanted to see what the home team alums think of this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =399774523

Anything for us UChi rising 2L's to learn? Do we have similar info for our own OCI?

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby WheninLaw » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:I wanted to see what the home team alums think of this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =399774523

Anything for us UChi rising 2L's to learn? Do we have similar info for our own OCI?


We have the GPA callback report, available on the Chalk site. It is much less informative/useful than this.

Your Paul Woo bidding advice will be: "There are some firms that require good grades. They are X."

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby 20141023 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:43 am

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago OCI Alums Answering Questions About the Job Hunt

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:03 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:Holy shit, which school's EIP is that? That is extremely useful. It is actually infinitely more useful than knowing that one (or more) people with over a 182 GPA received callbacks at almost any firm which may or may not have turned into offers.


CLS.




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